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Pirates of the Caribbean: Community Prequel Script

Yes, Jacarutu has clarified the character of Nathaniel better than i could. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

LOL!! Missing EITC flag. Thats a good one!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Like I said, i never knew ships of this time period had pilots. I always thought late 1800s and all through.



Oh, and Old Salt sorry i didnt reply, i was buried with other things. You did a good job on adding that line, now the scene flows better. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
Not that, Mercer. Just busy. My job should slow down in another few weeks for a while and I'll have much more time to devote to the script. Right now it is hard to try to give it my full attention other than just some quick comments. Or try to give a thorough reading through all of the posts.
 
Yep, i'm busy too at this time. So are we all. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=234481:date=Jan 15 2008, 07:59 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 15 2008, 07:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=234481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Busy as well. And still a bit sick. And next week I'll be completely gone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For how long?
 
This Sunday till next Friday. Just five days. I'll be going to Terschelling for simulator trainings for school.
 
Have fun!! I think we will manage. We're having a busy week all of us, me too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
THE MARINES SHOOT THE BODIES, MOST ARE ALREADY DEAD, BUT
SOME START SCREAMING AND SWIMMING FRANTICALLY AWAY UPON
HEARING THE ORDER, THEY ARE CUT DOWN.


JACK
(<b><i>Winces as each shot
rings out.</i></b> A severe look
of stress on his
face. He
obviously feels
sorry for the
pirates.)



NATHANIEL
(ALSO AFFECTED BY
THE RUTHLESS
KILLING. HAS A
LOOK OF CONCERN
ON HIS FACE.)
Better to die by a bullet, then by
perishing at sea. Sharks, hunger,
thirst a painful death for them.



Camera pans slowly in on Jack's face,
he is wearing a very distressed
expression.


FADE OUT.


CAMERA PANS TO SUNSET.



FADE OUT.


<i>Just a little add on in bold italic letters.

BTW, I don't know who did it but this was a nice add on to Jack's line. You could see him quickly adding this word after he speaks.</i>


JACK
(The dropping of
his title at the
end of Beckett's
line is not lost in
him, he replies
quickly)
<i>Always up to not letting you down….Sir</i> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
Good job Old Salt!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Very Nice. I will add the changes.

And yes, that was Pieter who came up with that line, i got a good laugh out of it! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> But yes, i could completely see Sparrow saying that.
 
You mean Pieter added on the "......Sir." part? Very good. The line itself was mine. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

Looking through the script Mercer and like the way it looks so far. I thought it had been a bit choppy in some points but it looks like some of the changes have smoothed it out a bit. I we going to be adding in jacarutu's changes as well or just leave it for now?
 
Oh! Sorry Old Salt!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> Pieter and me commented on that before, sorry i was distracted when i posted that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> Yes, i will be adding Jacarutu's changes. He did very well and i might have to tweak a thing here or there to stitch it into the script better, but it was very impressive. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
Pieter Boelen wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had some thoughts on the PotC 4 script we're writing. Remember how Jack Sparrow was never THE main character of the films, just <i>one of</i> the main characters? However, in our story as it now, Jack is pretty much the only main character with all other characters being pretty much supporting characters. That is why I think we should consider shifting the focus of the film a bit and make the film as much about Nathaniel Edwards as it is about Jack. We might even go as far as showing the first half of the film mostly from Nathaniel's perspective and then, when Jack and Nathaniel go different ways after Jack turning pirate, we could then alternate between Jack's story (what we already made up) and Nathaniel's story (that we haven't yet figured out).

Originally my thoughts were to make a film that shows a bit more of Jack and explains a bit of what happened before CotBP, but now I think that it's better to have that on the <i>background</i> of a different, completely new storyline. That would make sure the film would be able to stand on its own much better. There will be one story that plays from beginning to end during the film and Jack's storyline that continues in the next films is part of the film, but it takes a bit more of a background role.

Of course this does mean that Nathaniel's story should have quite an interesting character development arc, since it must be able to carry at least the weight of half the film. So what should this story be about? At the start of the film, Nathaniel Edwards is a succesful Post-Captain in the East India Trading Company and he is quite cocky and thinks himself superior to the other people. I could imagine him coming from nobility as well. He is then assigned as <i>subordinate</i> on a mission with a captain who seems to be pretty clumsy, weird, incapable even. Most likely Nathaniel would not be impressed with Jack at all from the beginning.

But then the mission starts to play out and things are becoming nastier and nastier. First there is Mercer who seems to be playing the boss over the captain and the captain seems to submit pretty much to everything Mercer says and wants. To Edwards this captain appears to be quite a weak character. Then we get the scene that Mercer came up with where the pirates in the water are shot. Nathaniel isn't really happy with this, because he IS a good man. He then observes the ship's captain who obviously isn't enchanted with Mercer's actions either, though doesn't try to do anything about it. This is when Nathaniel begins to feel a bit more friendly to this captain, though he would've liked it if the captain would've shown some strength of character and would stand up to Mercer.

Next thing in line is the capture of those African villagers. Again Jack doesn't appear happy, but this time he actually starts protesting. Of course he doesn't stop it from happening, but Edwards is happy to see that the captain is showing more strength of character than before. Then they set sail for the Caribbean and Jack is being quite a bit more defiant to Mercer and Edwards pretty much likes that. After all, Edwards thinks the <i>captain</i> should be the big boss and not the EITC representative. I think we should move the night conversation scene to this part of the voyage instead to illustrate Edwards warming up to Jack.

Then we get the meeting with the French pirate and this is when Jack really comes into his own. Mercer tells Jack that he must kill all the pirates and Jack refuses point-blank and there's nothing Mercer can do about it. I think this would be the point when Edwards begins to really like Jack. But then Jack decides to turn pirate, which is a bit too much of a good thing as far as Edwards is concerned. Mercer is locked up, but Jack allows Edwards to remain free aboard the ship until he can drop him off at a port. Edwards tries to convince Jack to not turn pirate, but Jack says it's too late for that. Edwards is sorry about that; he had gotten to like Jack.

Jack drops Edwards and Mercer off at a friendly port and goes off to pursue his own piratey errands. Edwards and Mercer somehow go back to England. Beckett isn't particularly pleased with what happened, so he assigns Edwards to a frigate headed to Indonesia for an indefinite period. After Jack's turn to piracy, we see Edwards becoming more and more disenchanted with the way the EITC handles things. Then things are starting to go haywire in Indonesia as the Dutch and Brittish start to wage war on each other. It turns out its Jack messing up relations between the VOC and EITC. Edwards is forced to do something about it, even though he doesn't particularly want to. Edwards has Jack's ship burnt (instead of commandeered) and lets Jack go. Jack is pretty angry with Edwards, who, at this point in the story, seems to be pretty much the bad guy instead of the good guy. What Jack doesn't know is that Edwards burnt his ship out of friendship, with the idea that if Jack can't have her, at least the EITC won't be able to have her either. And he let Jack go.

Edwards does nothing to prevent Jack's escape from Indonesia on the Black Pearl or he might even somehow help Jack with it, without it being obvious to the other EITC people that he helped a pirate. Then Edwards decides to quit his job at the EITC in a fun scene where he tells Beckett to "shut the crap up" or something like that. The audience now sees that Edwards has made the same transformation that Jack had made before and that Edwards has now decided to stand up to authority as well as Jack before him. Edwards could then join the navy instead, where he might get to meet James Norrington just before the end of the film.

Edwards is no longer in the employ of the EITC, but is now a navy captain instead, enabeling us to use him as admiral in the AWE sequel. So in the AWE sequel we could have some conflict again between Jack and Edwards, because Jack thinks Edwards is the bad guy, but he really isn't. In the end they become friendly again and join forces, trying to return order to the world after Calypso's release.

We could also show Jack's handling of the crew, which would probably be more similar to the pirate democratical way than the ordinary navy/EITC way. At first Edwards would find this a sign of weakness, but he soon finds out the value of Jack treating the crew well, because the crew is VERY loyal to Jack which comes in handy when Jack decides to turn pirate. Mercer assumes that since it is an EITC crew and he is the most important EITC representative aboard, he will have the support of the crew. But Mercer doesn't treat the crew well, so when Jack orders Mercer to be locked up, the crew turns its back on Mercer.

After Edwards got a command of his own again (the frigate headed for Indonesia) we see Edwards treating his crew in a similar way as Jack did before. Edwards has learned the value of what Jack did and has gotten to appreciate that Jack <i>was</i> right about treating his crew different to how most captains would. To illustrate this point better, it would help to show a bit of Edwards as captain before his mission with Jack.

What do you all think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Morgan Terror wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it sounds good to me, but why wouldn't he be in the following movies?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pieter Boelen wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because he isn't. Perhaps he's doing errands in Europe instead? Not everyone who joins the navy will be sent to the Caribbean. In any case: If he's still alive and kicking, it enables us to bring him back for the AWE sequel and tie things together a bit more. It's always fun to continue character development in further movies, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Morgan Terror wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->could be. but what role would he play? i don't think he should be the one that continues the hunt for the pirates as that would be a bit like repeating his role in the prequel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pieter Boelen wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, in the AWE sequel he would be the GOOD guy. One of them anyway. We've had enough navy/EITC bad guys; let's reverse things for the AWE sequel. Edwards is admiral in the British navy and he helps get rid of Calypso. But then at the end of PotC 5 the pirates might be seen as the bad guys, which would be the best illustration possible of the end of the golden age of piracy. In any case: Plenty of options.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mercer wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds great Pieter!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Yes, i would like to see the EITC as good guys, and I do think there are plenty of options to choose from in the AWE sequel. I think you have developed Edwards far more than me and so I am as <i>"content as a cucumber"</i> to go with your idea there. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pieter Boelen wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about the thought of shifting the focus of the film more to Edwards as well to make him as much a main character as Jack? That'd need a bit of work and some additional thoughts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old Salt wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=329:date=Jan 20 2008, 08:05 AM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Morgan Terror @ Jan 20 2008, 08:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it sounds good to me, but why wouldn't he be in the following movies?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So we would not be killing him off? And he could show up in the sequel after AWE? I like it Pieter. Its certainly a different direction. And Edwards always did seem very undeveloped and more of a sacrificial lamb to just be served up for slaughter. He himself seemed a bit weak. This takes it in a whole new direction and gives us a lot more avenues to explore with the story. I agree with everyone else. Very good. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Commodore John Paul Jones wrote:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's an interesting idea:

Edwards doesn't take all too well to Jack at first because he sees him as a weak person. All that stuff that Pieter talked about? YES! Amazing stuff, keep it.

He joins the Royal Navy and is brough back for the AWE sequel as a good guy. However, because Norrington has been killed (the death of chivalry in my opinion), that leaves the spot for "top dog" up for grabs... a new character can be intorduced to play the British Admiral. This new character is merely to fill the role, so he isn't in dire need of development in regards to plot. Perhaps this admiral could be like Captain Sawyer from the Hornblower series?
Anyway, Edwards becomes distressed over this, as the Royal Navy is slowly turning into the same monster that the EIC played in the original trilogy. Edwards is a colonial, his family lives in the new world, so he is further pressed for action when things go sour and his family is mistreated and his reputation questioned. He finally switches sides and becomes a captain in the Continental Navy, which is formed in the latter half of the sequel. The battle agains evil was thought to be won, but it turns out that the EIC was merely a cruel appendage of the British Empire, which will be the root of darkness in the series.
In the end, Edwards admires Jack even more because while he appeared to be weak, he had an unwavering take on personal beliefs while Edwards' own constantly changed through the movies.

Pick this apart if you wish, I am merely throwing an idea on the table and taking a stab at getting the American Revolutionists into the sequel... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Old Salt wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jack wasn't weak, he was just in the wrong occupation. Edwards come to realize this as he himself is in the wrong occupation as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Commodore John Paul Jones wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aye. Sort of what I'm hinting at... perhaps RN isn't for Edwards either, as a matter of fact, perhaps the British Empire isn't for him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And he comes to realize this slowly as Jack did. Interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice thoughts, Commodore and Old Salt. Definitly worth exploring further. I like the idea of the British Royal Navy becoming similar to the evil of the EITC and Edwards being unhappy with that. However, I wouldn't want to go as far as characterising Britain as the source of evil in the films. That's a bit over-the-top. Perhaps instead Edwards will feel compelled to save the Royal Navy from an evil fate, but somehow needs to join the American revolution in order to save his beloved England?

Also I like the idea of Edwards' view on Jack changing drastically over the course of the films. Naturally a captain like Jack would appear incompetent and weak to an officer like Edwards at first, but that wouldn't stay that way. I would like Edwards to have a character similar to what most people have: wanting to be a good person, but not always managing as well as he would want. He is wrong and makes the wrong choices on occasion, but in the final end he will rise to the occasion. He isn't as focused as Jack and in the end he will come to change from being an arrogant person to seeing his own flaws and being a better person for it.

To Darth-me: We're discussing a script for Pirates of the Caribbean 4 (and 5) that we're developing. A lot of the stuff was on the old forum, but we're just continuing the discussion here until we get all our old posts back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=329:date=Jan 20 2008, 05:53 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Old Salt @ Jan 20 2008, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
So we would not be killing him off? And he could show up in the sequel after AWE? I like it Pieter. Its certainly a different direction. And Edwards always did seem very undeveloped and more of a sacrificial lamb to just be served up for slaughter. He himself seemed a bit weak. This takes it in a whole new direction and gives us a lot more avenues to explore with the story. I agree with everyone else. Very good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Agreed on all points. Especially on Edwards' original role of cannon fodder and he himself being weak. I think that at the beginning of the first film, he will think he is pretty good himself and Jack is weak, but as the film(s) progress he will come to see that it is he himself who is weak. He comes to accept that and tries to do something about it and becomes a strong person at the end of the fifth film. At the end of the first film we already see a glimpse of him coming into his own when he decides to quit his job with the EITC.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Darth-me wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe the EITC has infiltrated and corrupted the RN (and Britain in general), but Jack and Edwards save it in the end.

Just an idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=329:date=Jan 21 2008, 12:51 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 21 2008, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Nice thoughts, Commodore and Old Salt. Definitly worth exploring further. I like the idea of the British Royal Navy becoming similar to the evil of the EITC and Edwards being unhappy with that. However, I wouldn't want to go as far as characterising Britain as the source of evil in the films. That's a bit over-the-top. Perhaps instead Edwards will feel compelled to save the Royal Navy from an evil fate, but somehow needs to join the American revolution in order to save his beloved England?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, Pieter. That would be over the top. I like Edwards conflict here and the actions he feels he needs to take. I think he feels deep down he is saving England from herself, other than Jack, who is a pirate at heart.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Old Salt wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=233340:date=Jan 21 2008, 01:00 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 21 2008, 01:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Agreed on all points. Especially on Edwards' original role of cannon fodder and he himself being weak. I think that at the beginning of the first film, he will think he is pretty good himself and Jack is weak, but as the film(s) progress he will come to see that it is he himself who is weak. He comes to accept that and tries to do something about it and becomes a strong person at the end of the fifth film. At the end of the first film we already see a glimpse of him coming into his own when he decides to quit his job with the EITC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, Pieter. He does see himself as being the weak one, because it is he who is not being true to himself. This is a profound revelation for Edwards, and one which helps shape him into the captain he becomes later on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry peeps, I have been busy. I like where Edwards was going. I never felt settled with his character, regardless I wouldn't say he was "cannon fodder" per se, if we killed him off i planned to have him go out with a BIG bang. But I like this angle better.

I think like Old Salt, that Jack was never weak, he just made it appear that he was weak. A good deceptive tactic. Jack is a strong character, maybe a bit weaker in the prequel, but still strong.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
as the Royal Navy is slowly turning into the same monster that the EITC played in the original trilogy.
Power corrupts. Thats a phrase i have heard many times. We need to make a point out of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Edwards conflict shouldn't be external i think it should be with himself, he wants to prove that he is a strong man, and that he doesn't take crap. That should be taken into account to set his tone. I like his character, he is a replacement for Norrington in both the prequel and the sequel. Also guys please note that the sequel will take place appr. 14-20 years after the prequel. So be careful on the age settings. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=233341:date=Jan 21 2008, 09:20 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercer @ Jan 21 2008, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Power corrupts. Thats a phrase i have heard many times. We need to make a point out of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That can be the underlying theme, as Edwards comes to find out.
<!--quoteo(post=233342:date=Jan 21 2008, 09:20 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercer @ Jan 21 2008, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Edwards conflict shouldn't be external i think it should be with himself, he wants to prove that he is a strong man, and that he doesn't take crap. That should be taken into account to set his tone. I like his character, he is a replacement for Norrington in both the prequel and the sequel. Also guys please note that the sequel will take place appr. 14-20 years after the prequel. So be careful on the age settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. But we have to project it out to the audience as well. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=233345:date=Jan 22 2008, 03:20 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercer @ Jan 22 2008, 03:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233345"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think like Old Salt, that Jack was never weak, he just made it appear that he was weak. A good deceptive tactic. Jack is a strong character, maybe a bit weaker in the prequel, but still strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. Edwards will think at first that Jack is weak and that he himself is strong, but then he comes to see that it's the other way around.

<!--quoteo(post=233346:date=Jan 22 2008, 03:58 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Old Salt @ Jan 22 2008, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That can be the underlying theme, as Edwards comes to find out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->And Edwards will try to counter it as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=233347:date=Jan 22 2008, 08:52 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 22 2008, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Exactly. Edwards will think at first that Jack is weak and that he himself is strong, but then he comes to see that it's the other way around.

And Edwards will try to counter it as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, that will be the driving focus in his life. And we definitely get a sense of that when he reappears in the sequel after AWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had another thought: What about if Edwards DOES become admiral in the AWE sequel, but he acts pretty much like the evil he has been fighting. This to illustrate the point of power corrupts. Then Jack has to save Edwards from himself before Edwards can save England from itself. Just a random thought; might be a bit too much though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may be something to keep in mind as we develop him. After all, absolute power does corrupt absolutely. I say we keep your thought and decide later on if its somewhere we want to go with Edwards, to that next level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We are moving ahead nicely. I like this. We MUST develop our characters more. I think Mercer is in need of some developing, i mean its kind of weird to show him as always slinking in the shadows, and casting a paw over everything. I think we need to change some things, or create a backstory of his.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With Mercer, I guess we were relying on the fact that everyone knew him already from the other movies and so just took it for granted that we could insert him here and not have the need to fill in the picture on him. I guess we are guilty of doing that with Jack as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its good Old Salt that we have caught ourselves there after all of this time. I think we NEED to explore some of these character's pasts, if not flashbacks, then some dialogue referring to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We could work in some dialogue or make some references to their past in certain areas of the script where it is called for. I guess we have to decide if we are comfortable with just having them off and running in the beginning of the script or if their back story needs to be filled in. Its an interesting debate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=233348:date=Jan 22 2008, 10:52 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercer @ Jan 22 2008, 10:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233348"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
We are moving ahead nicely. I like this. We MUST develop our characters more. I think Mercer is in need of some developing, i mean its kind of weird to show him as always slinking in the shadows, and casting a paw over everything. I think we need to change some things, or create a backstory of his.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Very much agreed. Mercer doesn't have much character apart from being "always present and nasty". We need some more personality and perhaps a bit of history to him and between him and the other characters. Otherwise he would only be a caricature of a "bad guy", which isn't interesting at all. That's why Barbossa and Davy Jones are such good bad guys. Good thinking!

I'd say there should be some dialog hints to past events. No flashbacks or anything and we don't need to actual show their history prior to the film starting proper, but we do need some hints. To be able to add hints into the script, we DO need to come up with their (almost) full back story. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True, which is why we would have to develop their back story apart from the script so that we could draw on it then when the time comes that we need to make reference to it in the script.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly. We make up a FULL backstory and then we can reference to it in dialogs. We don't necessarily need to implement the entire backstory into the script, just some little references.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mercer was a loyal employee of the East India Trading Company, possibly from Manchester, England[1], and served as the personal assistant of the Company's governor, Lord Cutler Beckett. Despite serving faithfully in his official capacity as a clerk, Mercer also carried out some of Beckett's more sinister agendas as an assassin and a spy, and would stop at nothing to further his employer's pursuit of power.

Mercer came with Lord Beckett to Port Royal, Jamaica, in the Caribbean in search of the Dead Man's Chest. He helped Beckett take over Port Royal and also helped him manipulate the Swann family, which eventually and, inadvertantly, lead to his employer's control of the heart of Davy Jones. Mercer was able to track the crew of the Black Pearl, and made a deal with the Chinese pirate Sao Feng, that allowed Beckett to capture the Black Pearl and the infamous Jack Sparrow. Towards the end of Beckett's war against piracy, Mercer was placed in charge of the supernatural ship, the Flying Dutchman.

Mercer arrived in Port Royal with Lord Beckett, carrying the arrest warrants needed by Beckett to arrest Elizabeth Swann, Will Turner, and James Norrington. These three had helped an infamous pirate, Jack Sparrow, escape from custody. Beckett really only wanted to use these three to find Jack Sparrow's compass, so he could use it to lead him to the Dead Man's Chest, in which was the heart of Davy Jones. With this, Beckett intended to rule the Seven Seas, and command Jones to lead his armada and bring about the end of piracy. After the arrests, Mercer helped Beckett set up his operations in Port Royal, discussing various matters of importance. Mercer watched as Beckett made a deal with Will Turner. Will would find Jack Sparrow's compass, and in return, Sparrow would recieve letters of Marque and become a privateer in the employ of England. Will and Elizabeth would in turn be pardoned, but if Will did not return with the compass, Elizabeth would be hanged.

When Beckett learned that Governor Weatherby Swann was sending his daughter, Elizabeth, to London in order to escape his plans, he sent Mercer to recapture his valuable pawn. Mercer murdered Captain Hawkins, the captain of the vessel that was supposed to transport Elizabeth to England. Soldiers then surrounded Governor Swann and his carriage. Mercer became frustrated when Elizabeth was not in the carriage, and even more so when Governor Swann prentended to not know who Mercer was looking for. Mercer had the Governor arrested and thrown in Fort Charles' prison . Elizabeth had broken into Beckett's office and stolen his letters of Marque, so Beckett sent Mercer to head Elizabeth off at her most likely destination: Tortuga.

In Tortuga, Mercer found Elizabeth in the Faithful Bride, a local pub. A bar fight was in progress, and it was soon ended by Elizabeth herself. The instigator of the fight, Beckett's other fugitive, James Norrington, was thrown into a pool of mud, and was escorted by Elizabeth to the Black Pearl. There he found Jack Sparrow. Instead of following them further, or hindering their departure he offered Norrington a deal on behalf of Lord Beckett and then returned to Port Royal with his report. After Mercer gave Beckett his report, Governor Swann was brought into Beckett's office. Mercer told the governor that Elizabeth had left with Sparrow and other fugitives from justice. Beckett told Swann that the Pearl would be persued by his ships, and that all those onboard would be doomed. So in return for his daughter's safety, Swann gave Beckett his loyalty. Mercer then removed the governor's cuffs, and set out to find the Pearl.[1]

During his search, Mercer found Norrington adrift at sea. Mercer returned to Port Royal and brought him before Beckett. Norrington had stolen Jack's letters of Marque and in return for his pardon, he gave Beckett the heart of Davy Jones, which he had acquired from Isla Cruces during a battle with Sparrow and Turner.[1] With the heart now in his employer's hands, Mercer now had all new objectives to complete for Beckett.

Once Beckett had the heart of Davy Jones, Mercer was sent to Singapore to find the crew of the Black Pearl. Accompanied by a detachment of East India Trading Company troops, Mercer patroled the streets and waterways of Singapore looking for the Pearl's crew, as well as the secret hideout of the infamous Chinese pirate, Sao Feng. Mercer planted a spy, Steng, into Feng's organization. Steng told Mercer where Feng's bath house was, and Mercer staged an ambush. Hector Barbossa and Elizabeth Swann were meeting with Sao Feng, and it was during the middle of this meeting that Mercer broke through the doors with dozens of soldiers and opened fire on the pirates. During the battle, Mercer tried to shoot Elizabeth, but she was pushed out of the way by William Turner. The shot instead lodged itself in the forehead of Park, one of Feng's twin bodyguards and masseuses.

Feng and the crew of the Pearl escaped though a secret exit of the bath house, and the battle raged into the streets of Singapore. While in a small storehouse, Park's twin sister, Lian, attempted to exact her revenge on Mercer. She drove a steel chopstick deep into his shoulder. During the struggle, Mercer threw Lian onto the ground and shot her dead. As he was leaving the scene Mercer stumbled onto a deal being made between Turner and Feng, and learned that the crew of the Pearl was on its way to rescue Jack Sparrow from Davy Jones' Locker. Later, Mercer caught up with Feng and made his own deal. Feng could have the Pearl once it returned from the Locker, all he needed to do was capture Sparrow and deliver him to Beckett. Feng agreed, and Mercer went to meet with Steng. Steng informed Mercer of the meeting of the Brethren Court, comprised of several Pirate Lords, each of whom needed one of nine pieces of eight to attend. Mercer then returned to Beckett's ship, the HMS Endeavour, to deliver his report.

After Mercer gave his report to Beckett, the Endeavour went to survey the damage done by Davy Jones' ship, the Flying Dutchman. Beckett had been using Jones to destroy pirate vessels in the Caribbean, but was frustrated that Jones never left anyone alive to interrogate. Mercer remarked that Jones was a loose cannon and that he might need further persuasion to follow Beckett's orders closer to the letter. He also told Beckett that Governor Swann kept asking questions about the Dead Man's Chest. Beckett suggested to Mercer that Swann's usefulness may have run its course. Soon after this, Governor Swann was murdered, presumably by Mercer, being Beckett's personal assassin. Following Mercer's advice, Beckett stationed Admiral Norrington aboard the Dutchman, along with many East India Trading Company troops. In time Mercer would be among them.[2]

At the appopriate time, the men who had joined Barbossa for the rescue of Jack Sparrow in Singapore turned on Barbossa and his remaining crew, showing that their true alliegances lied with Sao Feng. Feng captured the Pearl, but defaulting on his deal with William Turner, pronounced the ship to be his, and the Endeavour soon appeared on the horizon to collect their prizes. Feng handed Jack over to Beckett aboard the Endeavour. While Sparrow was being interrogated by Beckett, Mercer boarded the Black Pearl with a contengent of East India Trading Company troops to seize control of the ship. Sao Feng became angry that Mercer had lied to him, and conspired with Barbossa to attack the Endeavour, allowing the Pearl to escape. While Feng's ship, the Empress, attacked the Endeavour, Mercer and his men battled the crew of the Black Pearl. While he became embroiled in a duel with Barbossa, his men were all killed. Barbossa kicked Mercer between the legs, and just as Barbossa was about to deliver the final blow, Mercer dived off the Pearl and into the water below, and swam back to the Endeavour

Sometime between the Pearl's escape and the Flying Dutchman's attack on the Empress, Mercer joined Norrington onboard the Dutchman, and took the duty of guarding the chest with several soldiers. Norrington had placed the prisoners from the Empress in the Dutchman's brig, and tied the Empress to the Dutchman, so that it could be towed back to Beckett. However, Norrington soon had a change in heart, and released the prisoners. As they escaped back onto the Empress, Norrington was killed by a delusional "Bootstrap Bill" Turner. Jones, believing that the Admiral was the only thing tying him to Beckett, ordered his men to murder all the Company troops onboard, but when Jones reached his organ room, mini-cannons were aimed at the chest, and Mercer held the key taunting Jones, saying that the Dutchman was under his control.[2]

The Dutchman eventually caught up with Beckett, and joined the rest of his armada to attack Shipwreck Island, the meeting place of the Brethren Court. Prior to the battle around Calypso's maelstrom, Mercer's soldiers were refreshed with new ones, sinced most of them had been killed by the crew of the Dutchman. Mercer remained onboard and stayed near the helm with Jones. As a maelstrom began to form in between Beckett's forces and the pirates, Jones decided to steer the Dutchman into it, and attack the Pearl. Mercer was extremely hesitant to head into the vortex, but was unable to stop Jones. Mercer eventually accepted the circumstances and commanded the Dutchman during the early part of the battle, giving orders to the crew and his men. A stray cannon ball fired from the Black Pearl soon streamed toward the helm of the Dutchman. Jones grabbed Mercer and shielded him from the blast. Mercer's grateful mood soon passed when he and Jones realized that all the Company soldiers around the helm had been either incapacitated or killed by the blast. Jones took advantage of the moment and suffocated Mercer with his tentacles. Jones then took the key from Mercer's lifeless body and went to claim the chest, but fate would not allow to Jones to ever have it again. Mercer's body was consumed along with the Dutchman by Calypso's maelstrom.

Mercer had a tight, slightly wrinkled face, slick black hair, with a small ponytail tied with a bow on the back of his head. He usually wore a hat and a variety of dark coats, always buttoned up. They ranged from dark brown, to a dark green color. He also usually wore black gloves on his hand, adding to his already sinister look.

Mercer carried a dagger, used to murder Captain Hawkins, as well as a short-barreled hold-out pistol. He also had a thin-bladed cutlass, and showed an aptitude for swordplay, being able to match Hector Barbossa during their brief duel aboard the Black Pearl. Mercer also spoke with a Mancunian accent.

Mercer was extremely solemn, often having a grim expression on his face. He followed Beckett's orders promptly, no matter what they were. He took to the murder of Captain Hawkins with a chillingly calm and emotionless manner, referring to the act with dark humor. Above all other traits, Mercer's loyalty to his master was the strongest, completing every objective carefully and efficiently. He took every opportunity he could to further Beckett's agenda.


This is all quoted from wikipedia. Good source of info, and it gives us a start. He lived in Manchester.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I tried to look up some of his history also but there doesn't seem to be much until he met up with Beckett. We will have to take some liberty with him to fill in his picture. What exactly makes him tick and why events shaped him into the man we see in the movies?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We'll need to come up with some backstory ourselves then. As Mercer stands, he's a pretty flat character. So flat that I even forgot he was in DMC after my first couple of viewings. Not impressive at all. He needs to get some depth to his character. And probably also some weaknesses. We already might've hit on one weakness: He is not extremely smart and gets very angry when Jack outsmarts him with his Jack speach in the dinner scene. Would there actually be a past between Jack and Mercer and/or Edwards and Mercer? Or do they only know his reputation before he joins them on the voyage?

I think Mercer needs to get a full name. Is Mercer his real name anyway? Sounds more like a nickname to me that comes from "Mercenary".

<!--quoteo(post=233349:date=Jan 24 2008, 11:11 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercer @ Jan 24 2008, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Instead of following them further, or hindering their departure he offered Norrington a deal on behalf of Lord Beckett and then returned to Port Royal with his report.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's not true. No deal had been made; Norrington betrayed Jack, Will and Elizabeth on his own account. Check the scene in DMC where Norrington is cleaning the deck and hears Elizabeth and Jack talking about those Letters of Marque.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=233350:date=Jan 25 2008, 03:47 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 25 2008, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
We'll need to come up with some backstory ourselves then. As Mercer stands, he's a pretty flat character. So flat that I even forgot he was in DMC after my first couple of viewings. Not impressive at all. He needs to get some depth to his character. And probably also some weaknesses. We already might've hit on one weakness: He is not extremely smart and gets very angry when Jack outsmarts him with his Jack speach in the dinner scene. Would there actually be a past between Jack and Mercer and/or Edwards and Mercer? Or do they only know his reputation before he joins them on the voyage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, he does need to be filled out. About him getting angry, could it be that it isn't so much because he's not that smart but that he is too focused on his task at hand to the detriment of everything else around him?
<!--quoteo(post=233351:date=Jan 25 2008, 03:47 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 25 2008, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Mercer needs to get a full name. Is Mercer his real name anyway? Sounds more like a nickname to me that comes from "Mercenary".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He definitely does. Good point though that it might be a nickname. That's an idea to play around with. Either way, we do have to establish his real or full name.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do think Mercer needs to have some sort of weaknesses. No real person is without them and we want to make Mercer a more interesting character than he appeared before, right? So what can we get from the films as far as his character is concerned? And what could we come up with ourselves?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Mercer wrote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, i wouldnt say Mercer isnt smart. He seems very clever to set up the ambush at Singapore, then to keep hold of the Dutchman after the Admiral's death. He is not stupid, he is just not witty like Jack, and he isnt as smart in such abstract situations. He is reserved and sinister.

John Mercer

Charles Mercer

William Mercer

Those might be good names. Man Mercer is a hard name to find a good first name for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Too bad we couldn't use it as his first name.

Mercer Howell

Mercer Paine


I guess though since he's addressed as Mr. Mercer it wouldn't fit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So what about those weaknesses for him then? He can't be a perfect character, can he? That'd be dull.
How about a first name starting with an M? Morgan Mercer? Michael Mercer?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thomas The Terror wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Morgan sounds better than Michael.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Bava wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hm, what about a more "mythical" name that maybe even gives a hint about his character ? Something like Janus or Julius. OK, they don´t go with Mercer very well and are not appropriate for the role, but I hope you know what I mean.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL. I didn't even intend Morgan Mercer to be a serious entry. Morgan sounds like a name for a pirate. But that might actually be really quite interesting. How about Mercer's father was a pirate and Mercer is named after his father, but Mercer hates pirates and Jack calls Mercer "Morgan" all the time and Mercer gets really pissed off?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thomas The Terror wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would say more uncle or something, otherwise we have to many piratefathers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> (Teague, Bootstrap) Let's say uncle or granduncle, and he is named after him, but that uncle disgraced the family by becoming a pirate. And that is also the reason he hates pirates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Morgan Mercer offers a lot of possibilities and may explain his hatred of pirates because he's sharing an uncle's name who was a pirate and, of course, Henry Morgan, who would still be very much known during this time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps Henry Morgan WAS his uncle? Or else his aunt was Morgan Adams (from Cutthroat Island)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->QUOTE <!--quoteo(post=233360:date=Jan 26 2008, 09:45 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jan 26 2008, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=233360"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Perhaps Henry Morgan WAS his uncle? Or else his aunt was Morgan Adams (from Cutthroat Island)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that would really explain his tortured psyche. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL! Funny. I like it too especially the angle about how he hates pirates because his first name is Morgan.

Martin Mercer
Maximilian Mercer
Xavier Mercer (Hah! Maybe in the matrix)
Andrew Mercer
Caruthers Mercer (Old English Name)
Louis Mercer (Looie)
Mercer Schwarzenegger (He hates his last name)
Thomas Mercer
Leonardo Mercer-Di Caprio
Vincent Mercer


There are some names see which ones you guys might like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thomas Mercer is a safe bet, but if we really want to get daring, I'd still go with Morgan Mercer. Maybe Thomas Morgan Mercer, and somehow his middle name has gotten out or is the object of his irritation. Especially since his uncle is famous Henry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like that too, but i also like Maximilian for his first name. Also we need to make sure that the pirate we model him after was evil, so we can say it runs in the family.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Morgan as his middle name could be even more interesting. Most people know him by his last name (Mercer), some might know him by his first name (Thomas? Maximilian?), but Jack keeps calling him by his hated middle name that nobody else knows and that he is ashamed of.
That does pose the question of why does Jack know Mercer's middle name?

Jack: How're you doing, Morgan?
Mercer: My - name - is - not - Morgan!
Jack: Yes it is; Maximilian - Morgan - Mercer.
Mercer (through gritted teeth): How did you find out?
Jack (evil grin on his face): Ah, if only you knew.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like that angle. It can be a great source of tension between them and also a way to keep Mercer off balance.

Also, Maximilian Morgan Mercer could work. The first name suggests a regal nature about him, but his middle name is a source of embarrassment. He tries to live up to the first name but knows deep in his heart he really identifies with the middle. And if you want evil to run in the family, Henry Morgan will do just fine. He was a brilliant military strategist, and could be as ruthless as any pirate when he needed to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Morgan Terror wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would only put this in when needed though. mercer's menacing air should be kept in the beginning. maybe edwards should tell jack about the middle name once they start to get along a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Should Edwards tell him? Or should we have a backstory where Mercer and Jack know each other or are aware of each other and Jack somehow came about Mercer's middle name then?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Morgan Terror wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe. though i'd prefer edwards telling jack in a sneaky kind of way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
Commodore John Paul Jones wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have some ideas...

Victor Mercer
Roger Mercer
Phillip Mercer
Nicolas Mercer

What if Mercer is book-smart... but not street-smart? This could play on "he has brains, but no witt".

Or... perhaps we can use a scene in AWE to our advantage? Remember this?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jones: Down into the abyss!
Mercer: Are you mad?!
Jones: Ha! Ya'fraid t'get wet?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps there is a secret fear that Mercer has. He shows it then and once again in his final moment when he realizes that Jones is going to kill him. But what is he afraid of? Because those two moments of fear wern't really attributed to the same thing, but they have to be linked in a way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont follow Commodore. What fear are you talking about?

Never mind i get it now. Yeah, i think he should fear certain death. Thats why he is evil, to prevent his death. (Even though he is killed in a horrific way). Couldn't he have grabbed his rapier and slashed Jones' tentacles as he tried to kill him? Maybe he didnt because he knew his death was certain, his fate sealed. (Yes Jones grabbed both arms, but he grabbed the upper arms near the shoulders, he could still have, if he is the swordsman we think he is, been able to pull out his weapon and slice his tentacles).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was thinking, perhaps Mercer's distant cousin of his aunt's nephew twice removed was Morgan Terror and he's named after him?

Did we actually ever see Mercer doing some proper swordfighting? Perhaps he isn't very skilled with a blade like Will, Norrington or Barbossa? Perhaps he is only average at best?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw, I think on Wikipedia, that the sword fighting abilities of Will and Jack were superior, followed by Barbossa and Norrington being very good. I haven't seen any mention of Mercer's but let us assume his are average.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Pieter Boelen wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't trust Wikipedia on something like swordfighting skills. I was always under the impression that Barbossa was a much better swordsman than Jack, especially judging by their epic duel at the end of the first film. Although Barbossa must've been unable to hone his swordfighting skills while dead, while Jack might've gotten some practice, so Jack might be better in the later films.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Commodore John Paul Jones wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It looks like Mercer knew how to fight, because he was pretty handy with a pistol in Singapore and he did have a very brief duel with Barbossa when they were making a run for it from the Endeavor...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Mercer wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commodore's right, even though Mercer retreated it was because it was like 30 to 1. Not really fair. (And because Barbossa wacked him in his crown jewels) Did you guys read my post from wikipedia? It talks about his skill as a swordsman.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Old Salt wrote:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to the Essential Guide to Pirates of the Caribbean, Norrington is feared among pirates for his leadership skills and his swordsman abilities. And according to the audio commentary from the first Pirates of the Caribbean DVD featuring the scriptwriters, Norrington's swordsmanship is equaled only by Hector Barbossa and surpassed only by Jack Sparrow and Will Turner. At the first film's climax he personally duels the pirate Kohler and kills him after the curse is lifted. In Dead Man's Chest and At World's End, however, the statistics seem to have changed slightly (probably due to his disgrace): he participates in a three-way duel between himself, Will Turner and Jack Sparrow, and despite being weaker than Will, he knocks Will down twice which clearly demonstrated he still retained his skill. In the end, Norrington is murdered by Bootstrap Bill Turner while his attention is still focused on shooting Elizabeth's line in order to ensure her safety.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the paragraph I read from Wikipedia about their sword fighting skills and apparently they say the gleaned this information from the scriptwriters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
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