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Pirates of the Caribbean: Community Prequel Script

<!--quoteo(post=215185:date=Sep 22 2007, 10:15 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 22 2007, 10:15 PM) [snapback]215185[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AHEM! And what about the Dutchman? I like the idea of Edwards raising a black flag to help sparrow but the dutchman should also be in there. Edwards is giving them a chance, if the dutchman sails on one side of the pearl, and the phalanx on the other the pearl is pretty safe. Though a dozen volleys from some 74's at the side of the Phalanx is not survivable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Perhaps the Dutchman can keep most of Beckett's fleet busy while a couple of ships chase the Pearl, which are then intercepted by the Phalanx. How about bringing in some VOC ships as well? Just to shake things up a little... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
I like your irony thought! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=215187:date=Sep 22 2007, 10:18 PM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Sep 22 2007, 10:18 PM) [snapback]215187[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->one thing though: how do you expect that this scene is going to be made? i'd think computer animation, but real ships where used in the other films.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You don't honestly think they used real ships all the time in the other films, do you? A lot of that was CGI. Surprisingly enough, even the Black Pearl laid up at the Pelegostos beach was actually CGI! I don't really see a problem; ILM is capable of doing quite a lot as evidenced by AWE.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215185:date=Sep 22 2007, 04:15 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 22 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]215185[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->AHEM! And what about the Dutchman? I like the idea of Edwards raising a black flag to help sparrow but the dutchman should also be in there. Edwards is giving them a chance, if the dutchman sails on one side of the pearl, and the phalanx on the other the pearl is pretty safe. Though a dozen volleys from some 74's at the side of the Phalanx is not survivable.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/william.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":will" border="0" alt="william.gif" /> I know we shouldnt be OVERLY dramatic about this scene, but there has to be some drama involved. Maybe we could make it like slow motion as the Pearl is escorted out, or we keep the normal speed, and have some dramatic music playing, like when the Endevour was destroyed in AWE. We should show the Phalanx just being splintered. Shot from other ships are busting holes in her side, lines on the masts are snapping, splinters are flying everywhere, belaying lines are also snapping, one of the masts falls. Something like that, and to add to this, lets show Beckett watching this through his spyglass, it would then be an irony in AWE for HIS ship to be splintered apart by the two very same ships that escaped his grasp in the prequel, that could explain one of the reasons why he was in a trance-like state when the Endevour was being destroyed. Just an idea though. I would appreciate any comments! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your right, Mercer, that's the problem sometimes with getting ahead of ourselves. How do we make it work that Jack really does need help from Edwards with the Dutchman there? Well, I guess we can if the Pearle is taking a hammering when Edwards decides to throw his lot in with Jack. The Dutchman would be doing massive damage but all Jones can really do is give Jack a better than fighting chance to get away and maybe that's where Edwards would fit in.
I like the foreshadowing with Mercer. Anytime we can throw in little angles like that in the prequel that link to events in later films is a plus. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
See my post above this one, Old Salt. Might be an option. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice drafts Commodore! I do draw a few, but not near as good as yours with all of the shading. I am very impressed!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Those aren't my drafts. They're from a website that contains <i>actual</i> blueprints from the 1770s-1820s that use them to show you examples of the ships used by Jack Aubrey in the series by Patrick O'Brian.
<a href="http://members.aol.com/batrnq/" target="_blank">The Ships of Jack Aubrey</a>
But, my drafts do look quite similar... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> I just wanted to throw up some drafts really quick. (You don't think I could have managed to get two drafts with 100% accuracy drawn, scanned and posted within hours of you suggesting drafts of these ships?! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> )
Here's one I drew a while ago... not accurate by any means (It looks accurate visually... but don't build a ship with them!) and the stern galleries are a bit smushed... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
<a href="http://cdrejohnpauljones.deviantart.com/art/HMS-Dauntless-Draft-53638235" target="_blank">HMS Dauntless - Draft</a>
 
<!--quoteo(post=215208:date=Sep 22 2007, 05:21 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 22 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]215208[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See my post above this one, Old Salt. Might be an option. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, Pieter, I posted that the same time you posted and didn't see yours.
 
No problem. I thought you might have missed it, so I thought I'd attend you to it... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=215206:date=Sep 22 2007, 05:18 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 22 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]215206[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps the Dutchman can keep most of Beckett's fleet busy while a couple of ships chase the Pearl, which are then intercepted by the Phalanx. How about bringing in some VOC ships as well? Just to shake things up a little... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
I like your irony thought! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I guess we were on sort of the same track there, Pieter. As I said, no matter how powerful Jones is he couldn't realistically keep the Pearle completely out of danger. And it would add intrigue into the battle to have the Dutchman tied up with half of the fleet while the other half is coming after the Pearle. That would also explain why Edwards would feel the need to switch sides and why he winds up being sunk.
<!--quoteo(post=215206:date=Sep 22 2007, 05:18 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 22 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]215206[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't honestly think they used real ships all the time in the other films, do you? A lot of that was CGI. Surprisingly enough, even the Black Pearl laid up at the Pelegostos beach was actually CGI! I don't really see a problem; ILM is capable of doing quite a lot as evidenced by AWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. It is absolutely amazing what they can do now. Think of how Star Wars (1977) The Empire Strikes Back (1980) and Return of the Jedi (1983) would have turned out had they been made with today's technology!
 
Actually, as far as special effects are concerned, I keep being surprised by how good the effects of some older films hold up to today's standards, even though they were made before the days of computer graphics. The Indiana Jones films, for example, look completely convincing to me. It seems to me that the ease with which special effects are done nowadays have had an adverse effects on films. Many films now rely on the special effects, which seem to be intended to show us "look what we can do now!" This is something that greatly plagued the Star Wars prequels, even though I do like these films. I hope that we can try to avoid that with our prequel story though.
 
Unfortunately, special effects have come to be filler for a weak script, and many filmmakers, even those who should know better, are not adverse from it. The progression in action movies over the past twenty years has been to rely heavily on special effects because these directors did not want to be upstaged by the next action movie that came out. And that is pretty much still the rule now.
Back with the first three Star Wars films, and two older films that come to mind, 2001 a space odyssey (1968) and Silent Running (1972), they were the result of a balanced marriage between great special effects and a solid script. Of course, those types of effects were in its infancy then and there was no competition from other films that would be in the same genre.

Overindulgence is a human trait that is easy to fall prey too. We are bucking the trend here in that our emphasis is on a solid script first, and then adding special effects to complement our story, not replace it.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215276:date=Sep 23 2007, 02:02 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 23 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]215276[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unfortunately, special effects have come to be filler for a weak script, and many filmmakers, even those who should know better, are not adverse from it. The progression in action movies over the past twenty years has been to rely heavily on special effects because these directors did not want to be upstaged by the next action movie that came out. And that is pretty much still the rule now.
Back with the first three Star Wars films, and two older films that come to mind, 2001 a space odyssey (1968) and Silent Running (1972), they were the result of a balanced marriage between great special effects and a solid script. Of course, those types of effects were in its infancy then and there was no competition from other films that would be in the same genre.

Overindulgence is a human trait that is easy to fall prey too. We are bucking the trend here in that our emphasis is on a solid script first, and then adding special effects to complement our story, not replace it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old Salt, Pieter, good posts i agree as well, you NEED a good script to be the foundation of things, and visual effects to embellish it. I understand that many of the older movies had a good balance of story vs. visual effects, but todays people LOVE visual effects, guess what i remember from AWE, not the speech, but the visual effects. People remember things that are one of a kind, a huge amount of visual effects, now we dont need that, but we cant just have a story, i absolutely hate movies that are mostly dialogue, and very few visual effects, i am sorry some people say that 2006 Pride and Prejudice was a great movie, but i just cannot sit there and watch 5 minutes of it. This is not a "chick-flick" this is not a "documentary" or a movie that is ONLY meant to tell a story, of course you need a story, but you need comedy, and visual effects, thats what made COBP such a great hit, and then DMC and AWE. Most people i talk to about how they liked AWE they said it was confusing, but they just went to see it, because of Sparrow and the Visual Effects. Now that is not good to make a movie where people only want to see that, we should have a perfect balance of story, character, visual effects, and comedy. That will make this movie SOAR into the sky.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215264:date=Sep 23 2007, 10:44 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 23 2007, 10:44 AM) [snapback]215264[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I guess we were on sort of the same track there, Pieter. As I said, no matter how powerful Jones is he couldn't realistically keep the Pearle completely out of danger. And it would add intrigue into the battle to have the Dutchman tied up with half of the fleet while the other half is coming after the Pearle. That would also explain why Edwards would feel the need to switch sides and why he winds up being sunk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree. It is absolutely amazing what they can do now. Think of how Star Wars (1977) The Empire Strikes Back (1980) and Return of the Jedi (1983) would have turned out had they been made with today's technology!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old salt, i was thinking that we would have Sparrow heat things up (accidentaly, that had entirely nothing to do with him <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> ) between the VOC and the EITC so that Beckett, even though being a desk man as i believe some one mentioned, will have cause to take a fleet to protect his assets in the INdies. Aye, Old Salt, the Dutchman cannot protect the Pearl from everything, but she is just trying to break the blockade for the Pearl, and when a VOC fleet comes to strike Becketts fleet which is un prepared for an attack from the outside, Edwards has a change of heart for the better, and decides to help the pearl escape, by taking up position off the Pearl's starboard side, the Dutchman was supposed to be on the port side because most of Becketts larger SOTLs are on that side ( according to my battle plan). now there will be several 74s on the Phalanx's side that get several good broadsides off into the Phalanx, and the Phalanz does the same. Either way, the Phalanx will be taking on massive damage, and Sparrow will signal Edwards to abandon his ship, and retreat onto the Pearl, but tragically Edwards is killed upon seeing the signal, Sparrow will see this, and will be very affected by it. Now there is two ways we do this, either the powder magazines on the Phalanx ignite, or she is pounded to pulp by becketts ships, and slips beneath the waves. There is my modified plan for the battle.

I know, think if they did ue todays visual effects (and better music) we would have ourselves an amazing movie. You know that they did actually go back and modify them slightly, add more visual effetcts to the sets.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215292:date=Sep 23 2007, 05:24 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 23 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]215292[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=215276:date=Sep 23 2007, 02:02 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 23 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]215276[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overindulgence is a human trait that is easy to fall prey too. We are bucking the trend here in that our emphasis is on a solid script first, and then adding special effects to complement our story, not replace it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old Salt, Pieter, good posts i agree as well, you NEED a good script to be the foundation of things, and visual effects to embellish it. I understand that many of the older movies had a good balance of story vs. visual effects, but todays people LOVE visual effects, guess what i remember from AWE, not the speech, but the visual effects. People remember things that are one of a kind, a huge amount of visual effects, now we dont need that, but we cant just have a story, i absolutely hate movies that are mostly dialogue, and very few visual effects, i am sorry some people say that 2006 Pride and Prejudice was a great movie, but i just cannot sit there and watch 5 minutes of it. This is not a "chick-flick" this is not a "documentary" or a movie that is ONLY meant to tell a story, of course you need a story, but you need comedy, and visual effects, thats what made COBP such a great hit, and then DMC and AWE. Most people i talk to about how they liked AWE they said it was confusing, but they just went to see it, because of Sparrow and the Visual Effects. Now that is not good to make a movie where people only want to see that, we should have a perfect balance of story, character, visual effects, and comedy. That will make this movie SOAR into the sky.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, Mercer. I hope I'm not giving you the impression that I just want some token special effects. It may sound like I'm straddling the fence, but I do believe that we can have both and neither would be a detriment to the other. I think the scenes were special effects come into play, they should be absolutely awesome, such as the battle scene where Jack makes his escape with Jones' help. Then the special effects would do their job of accentuating those scenes we need to be really special.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215294:date=Sep 23 2007, 05:52 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 23 2007, 05:52 PM) [snapback]215294[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Old salt, i was thinking that we would have Sparrow heat things up (accidentaly, that had entirely nothing to do with him <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> ) between the VOC and the EITC so that Beckett, even though being a desk man as i believe some one mentioned, will have cause to take a fleet to protect his assets in the INdies. Aye, Old Salt, the Dutchman cannot protect the Pearl from everything, but she is just trying to break the blockade for the Pearl, and when a VOC fleet comes to strike Becketts fleet which is un prepared for an attack from the outside, Edwards has a change of heart for the better, and decides to help the pearl escape, by taking up position off the Pearl's starboard side, the Dutchman was supposed to be on the port side because most of Becketts larger SOTLs are on that side ( according to my battle plan). now there will be several 74s on the Phalanx's side that get several good broadsides off into the Phalanx, and the Phalanz does the same. Either way, the Phalanx will be taking on massive damage, and Sparrow will signal Edwards to abandon his ship, and retreat onto the Pearl, but tragically Edwards is killed upon seeing the signal, Sparrow will see this, and will be very affected by it. Now there is two ways we do this, either the powder magazines on the Phalanx ignite, or she is pounded to pulp by becketts ships, and slips beneath the waves. There is my modified plan for the battle.

I know, think if they did ue todays visual effects (and better music) we would have ourselves an amazing movie. You know that they did actually go back and modify them slightly, add more visual effetcts to the sets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like it, Mercer. I was just trying to imagine a scenario where we have the Dutchman blasting Beckett's fleet but not being so overwhelming that it makes Edward's last minute change of heart seem superfluous. It looks like your battle plan addresses that and also allows the Dutchman to show off enough of her power and thus leave a lasting impression on Beckett. I like Edwards death scene and the fact that Jack witnesses it and is deeply affected by it. He knew his friend finally came to do right by him and is deeply moved that he in effect gave his life in the process.
We can have the Phalanx being blasted by Beckett's ships (Edwards death scene) and then one of the last volleys ignites the powder magazine and blows the ship apart. Of course, we have to get Bootstrap off of the ship before that happens.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215316:date=Sep 23 2007, 11:08 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 23 2007, 11:08 PM) [snapback]215316[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like it, Mercer. I was just trying to imagine a scenario where we have the Dutchman blasting Beckett's fleet but not being so overwhelming that it makes Edward's last minute change of heart seem superfluous. It looks like your battle plan addresses that and also allows the Dutchman to show off enough of her power and thus leave a lasting impression on Beckett. I like Edwards death scene and the fact that Jack witnesses it and is deeply affected by it. He knew his friend finally came to do right by him and is deeply moved that he in effect gave his life in the process.
We can have the Phalanx being blasted by Beckett's ships (Edwards death scene) and then one of the last volleys ignites the powder magazine and blows the ship apart. Of course, we have to get Bootstrap off of the ship before that happens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, i didnt get to finish, the Dutchman will leave more of a lasting impression on Beckett, after the Pearl is safely away, the Dutchman will turn around, and pound the begeezes out of both the EITC fleet, and some of the VOC fleet. It will not only foreshadow Becketts demise, but that scene in AWE when the dutchman is destroying unknown pirate ships. Also read my post a page or two back where i mention how Edwards should die. With the slow motion, or the dramatic music.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215185:date=Sep 22 2007, 04:15 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 22 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]215185[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/william.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":will" border="0" alt="william.gif" /> I know we shouldnt be OVERLY dramatic about this scene, but there has to be some drama involved. Maybe we could make it like slow motion as the Pearl is escorted out, or we keep the normal speed, and have some dramatic music playing, like when the Endevour was destroyed in AWE. We should show the Phalanx just being splintered. Shot from other ships are busting holes in her side, lines on the masts are snapping, splinters are flying everywhere, belaying lines are also snapping, one of the masts falls. Something like that, and to add to this, lets show Beckett watching this through his spyglass, it would then be an irony in AWE for HIS ship to be splintered apart by the two very same ships that escaped his grasp in the prequel, that could explain one of the reasons why he was in a trance-like state when the Endevour was being destroyed. Just an idea though. I would appreciate any comments! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would vote for any scene like the one you describe to be played at normal speed. That would keep it real and keep the audience anchored to the seriousness of the scene. I find this is another annoying aspect in todays filmmaking where I guess they want to slow everything down in an attempt to amp up the magnitude of the event but it just comes off as cartoonish and leaves the audience emotionally detached.
The dramatic music would be a powerful touch though and lend weight to the scene, plus let the audience know that this is a pretty significant event in the lives of these characters, both Sparrow and Beckett. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=215294:date=Sep 23 2007, 11:52 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 23 2007, 11:52 PM) [snapback]215294[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now there is two ways we do this, either the powder magazines on the Phalanx ignite, or she is pounded to pulp by becketts ships, and slips beneath the waves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I like the powder magazine idea. We've already had a ship being blown to pulp in AWE, so a big explosion would be cool. Especially if there are other enemy ships near that are also damaged by that explosion. That way even the Phalanx's end would still serve some purpose.

At the moment I am more interested in how the story will play out between Commodore John Paul Jones' opening scene and the beginning of the battle. Could we have some more thoughts on that?

As far as the special effects go: The battle should, of course, be pretty awesome, but still I think we should not forget about not upstaging CotBP. If we agree to put a huge fleet-to-fleet battle in the AWE sequel, that should reflect here. We could make this the biggest battle ever seen on the silver screen, but I don't really think that belongs in a prequel. Also: I would like to have not too many obvious special effects stuff in the film before the battle. I would prefer the beautiful locations Sparrow visits to be the special effects. And of course the various sword/gunfights. How about my idea of having a musket fight in the jungle between EITC and VOC soldiers? Perhaps the EITC will be trying to take over Batavia (the town, not the ship) in the hopes of gaining a trade monopoly on Indonesia. Naturally they won't win. The prequel will be a major defeat and setback for Beckett and will be the mark Jack left on Beckett. Jack becomes a pirate and manages to escape Beckett (which personally upsets Beckett) and the VOC beats the EITC (which economically upsets Beckett). That seems like something that would really get to Beckett. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I personally don't really like the overly dramatic music used at the end of DMC, nor the overly dramatic music during AWE. It is pretty good music and it does work, but I really don't want us to go the same way with the prequel. Been there, done that. In the prequel we want first and foremost FUN! Something that was a bit lacking in the PotC sequels, but <i>was</i> very much apparent in CotBP. There is a big risk of us going all dramatic again with our story and I think we should deliberately try to not do that.
 
<!--quoteo(post=215376:date=Sep 25 2007, 05:13 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 25 2007, 05:13 AM) [snapback]215376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=215294:date=Sep 23 2007, 11:52 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 23 2007, 11:52 PM) [snapback]215294[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now there is two ways we do this, either the powder magazines on the Phalanx ignite, or she is pounded to pulp by becketts ships, and slips beneath the waves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I like the powder magazine idea. We've already had a ship being blown to pulp in AWE, so a big explosion would be cool. Especially if there are other enemy ships near that are also damaged by that explosion. That way even the Phalanx's end would still serve some purpose.

At the moment I am more interested in how the story will play out between Commodore John Paul Jones' opening scene and the beginning of the battle. Could we have some more thoughts on that?

As far as the special effects go: The battle should, of course, be pretty awesome, but still I think we should not forget about not upstaging CotBP. If we agree to put a huge fleet-to-fleet battle in the AWE sequel, that should reflect here. We could make this the biggest battle ever seen on the silver screen, but I don't really think that belongs in a prequel. Also: I would like to have not too many obvious special effects stuff in the film before the battle. I would prefer the beautiful locations Sparrow visits to be the special effects. And of course the various sword/gunfights. How about my idea of having a musket fight in the jungle between EITC and VOC soldiers? Perhaps the EITC will be trying to take over Batavia (the town, not the ship) in the hopes of gaining a trade monopoly on Indonesia. Naturally they won't win. The prequel will be a major defeat and setback for Beckett and will be the mark Jack left on Beckett. Jack becomes a pirate and manages to escape Beckett (which personally upsets Beckett) and the VOC beats the EITC (which economically upsets Beckett). That seems like something that would really get to Beckett. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I personally don't really like the overly dramatic music used at the end of DMC, nor the overly dramatic music during AWE. It is pretty good music and it does work, but I really don't want us to go the same way with the prequel. Been there, done that. In the prequel we want first and foremost FUN! Something that was a bit lacking in the PotC sequels, but <i>was</i> very much apparent in CotBP. There is a big risk of us going all dramatic again with our story and I think we should deliberately try to not do that.
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Okay, I am going to explain this in as easy a way as possible. MOVIES ARE A DELICATE BALANCING ACT <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

I dont know how many times i have preached this, but COBP has different strengths than our movie is going to have. They use skeletal characters that are rendered using CGI animation, we will have none of that, so to keep from disappointing fans we need a balanced movie. To make up for the loss of CGI animation we must have a big sea battle, (in terms of numbers). Look, DMC had probably the longest sustained sword fight of the three, so been there done that, cross a big sword fight off our lists. The next option is a big gunfight, there has not been one, you idea of EITC troops and VOC troops having a gunfight fite perfectly GOOD THINKING! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

Now we are STILL lopsided even with the gunfight. Pirates rarely fought on land, they fought on the high seas. The only other option i can see is a big sea battle. Now the SEQUEL for AWE can also have a big sea battle, because it will be in a different context. Possibly Revolutionary war era, or something else. Come to think of it, it might be funny to have Sparrow meet George Washington, and do all of his funny antics to somehow help Washington in the end to win something. But, back to the current script.

Also Pieter, i agree, we shouldnt be OVERLY dramatic, we should have more fun in this. More than just a couple laughs here and there like in DMC and AWE. I remember in COBP in the theaters everyone was laughing their heads off EVERY scene. We should focus on that, to achieve a funnier, funner (pardon the conflicting English) movie.

And to reply to what you said about the powder magazine exploding, i actually have a couple of explosions planned. You probably wouldnt like this, but the battle might be like a Pirates of the Caribbean Mission impossible scene with all of the explosions, Hollywood would drool over it!

There is part of my many philosophies for these movies laid out before you. Please read the WHOLE post so you can see where i stand at this point. Thanks, and God Bless America, Vive la POTC! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=215455:date=Sep 25 2007, 09:10 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 25 2007, 09:10 PM) [snapback]215455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Possibly Revolutionary war era, or something else. Come to think of it, it might be funny to have Sparrow meet George Washington, and do all of his funny antics to somehow help Washington in the end to win something. But, back to the current script.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
We need to strike a balance. We can't have a movie full of mindless explosions. And we can't have a movie void of any special effects. We need to be mindful of not upstaging the three movies (and the sequel) but not at the cost of watering down our script because of some perceived barrier we cannot cross.
A massive sea battle is going to be necessary if we are going to have the Pearle break away from Beckett's fleet with Edward's and Jones help. There is no way to get around that. And to downplay it would not do justice to the event or to the audience.

Think of Revenge of the Sith. That had three stellar light saber fights in it and Lucas had no choice but to put at least one of them in since everyone knew long before that Obi-wan had cut up and crippled Anakin and forced him into that mask. I don't think though that it was a detriment to the first three films to show that, even if it blew away any light saber fight that was featured in those movies.

<!--quoteo(post=215376:date=Sep 25 2007, 06:13 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 25 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]215376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At the moment I am more interested in how the story will play out between Commodore John Paul Jones' opening scene and the beginning of the battle. Could we have some more thoughts on that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sea battle debate will no doubt go on, but we do need to turn our attention back to the beginning of the script again as Pieter points out. Are we using his plot outline?
 
<!--quoteo(post=215455:date=Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]215455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MOVIES ARE A DELICATE BALANCING ACT <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That they are. However, it seems to me that having the most massive major explosion-filled and action-packed sea battle in the first film of a series isn't really very well-balanced. Personally I would suggest not showing too much of the battle between the other ships if we <i>are</i> going to have a big battle. So we focus on the Black Pearl getting away and just have the big bad massive battle play out in the background without focusing on it all that much. That way we still have a big battle, but don't show too much of it. That way when the REAL big bad battle comes along in the AWE sequel, it will have a big impact still.

I also had this thought that after Edwards' change of heart, he will not last for very long. He raises the Jolly Roger and almost immediately gets a lot of cannon fire directed his way. He will not last long in this cannon bombardment. Perhaps if we would want to add a truly dramatic scene here, we could have the Phalanx be blown to bits by a cannon ball fired from the Black Pearl. It would be truly nasty if Jack, being angry with Edwards for what he had done, would order a volley on the Phalanx and this volley would set fire to the powder magazine and blow up the ship. But not before Jack sees Edwards at the stern raising the pirate flag. That would possibly be the most nasty thing we could come up with. We might not actually WANT to go THAT nasty though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=215455:date=Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]215455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now we are STILL lopsided even with the gunfight. Pirates rarely fought on land, they fought on the high seas. The only other option i can see is a big sea battle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->City siege involving muskets and those big land-based cannons. That would be pretty impressive and would fit into the idea of EITC vs VOC. And it would be something different that is not in any of the other films. We can then have a pretty big land battle with the EITC trying to take over Batavia and the trade monopoly on the East Indies. Of course there must be a sea battle in the film, but if we already show a big land battle, the sea battle does not need to be <i>too</i> big so that we can save the big sea battle for the AWE sequel.

<!--quoteo(post=215455:date=Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]215455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And to reply to what you said about the powder magazine exploding, i actually have a couple of explosions planned. You probably wouldnt like this, but the battle might be like a Pirates of the Caribbean Mission impossible scene with all of the explosions, Hollywood would drool over it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, I indeed wouldn't like that. We don't want to overdo it all. The prequel should feel the most normal and least over-the-top of all the films. AWE is REALLY over-the-top and most definitely not normal. Then we can show another no-holds-barred sea battle in the AWE sequel as well, though there we should go for over-the-top realism, rather than over-the-top fantasy as in AWE.

<!--quoteo(post=215455:date=Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 26 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]215455[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is part of my many philosophies for these movies laid out before you. Please read the WHOLE post so you can see where i stand at this point. Thanks, and God Bless America, Vive la POTC! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's an... interesting way to end a post... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

BTW: Why do you keep referring to "fantasy elements" as "CGI"? I am pretty sure that the big massive sea battle you would like would require just as much, if not more, CGI as all the skeletons in the first film combined.

<!--quoteo(post=215467:date=Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]215467[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We need to strike a balance. We can't have a movie full of mindless explosions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Mindless explosions: The one thing we really DON'T want to do. There is dozens of films depending solely on explosions. I would love for the prequel to be a film that would be impressive because of its story, its character development and its beautiful locations rather than depending for a large part on action, special effects and explosions. Of course the action, special effects and exlosions should most assuredly be a part of the film, but I don't think it should be what we focus on. Rather than making a special effects film that happens to also have a story, I would prefer the movie to be a good story that only uses the special effects and action scenes to advance the story. If a scene, as cool as it might be, does not advance the story and is just there for coolness' sake, it should be cut. The coolest scenes are those where the special effects help the story, rather than take over from the story.

<!--quoteo(post=215467:date=Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]215467[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A massive sea battle is going to be necessary if we are going to have the Pearle break away from Beckett's fleet with Edward's and Jones help. There is no way to get around that. And to downplay it would not do justice to the event or to the audience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not really. It has been established that the Pearl is the fastest ship in the Caribbean, so the Pearl could, in theory, get away by depending on her speed, rather than on a lot of firepower. Also: The whole massive battle is meant to show to Beckett how powerful the Dutchman is. That is the story purpose of the battle. Nothing more and nothing less. So how big should we make the battle and how much should we show for Beckett to see the power of the Dutchman and for the audience to understand that this is what put Beckett onto searching for Davy's heart? As far as story purpose goes, we don't even need to show ANYTHING of the battle. In theory we could have Beckett discuss the battle with Mercer afterwards. Of course for the sake of giving the audience a bit of spectacle, we wouldn't be able to get around of showing <i>some</i> of it, but for the sake of the story <i>showing</i> the battle is not that important.

Something we should also consider: Is there another way that we can get Beckett to see the power of the Dutchman? If we are to come up with the best story possible, we must consider all possible ways of getting the message accross. The big battle is one way, but I am sure one could think of many more ways. We shouldn't be too locked up on the battle idea, because that way we might ignore the possibilities of a better idea.

<!--quoteo(post=215467:date=Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]215467[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Think of Revenge of the Sith. That had three stellar light saber fights in it and Lucas had no choice but to put at least one of them in since everyone knew long before that Obi-wan had cut up and crippled Anakin and forced him into that mask. I don't think though that it was a detriment to the first three films to show that, even if it blew away any light saber fight that was featured in those movies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually I think the Star Wars prequels pretty much upstaged the original trilogy as far as action and special effects are concerned. But are the prequel films better films for it? Personally I do like the prequel films, but I like the original trilogy better because it felt to me as if the action in the original trilogy was a way to further the story forward, while in the prequel films a lot of action was just there fore coolness' sake. I think the Star Wars prequels show many of the traps that we should try to avoid.

<!--quoteo(post=215467:date=Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 26 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]215467[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sea battle debate will no doubt go on, but we do need to turn our attention back to the beginning of the script again as Pieter points out. Are we using his plot outline?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->My plot outline is rather short and really needs massive expanding and improving. It is jus a very vague guideline that we could use. I personally am very much aware that even my vague outline is far from being perfect and it will need a lot of work to become a truly great story.
 
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