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Selectable Ages

Pieter Boelen

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer
Administrator
Storm Modder
Hearts of Oak Donator
We are currently considering to allow the player to select an age when starting the game. Depending on the selected age, some ships will be available and others unavailable. Possibly also the soldier skins will change according to the age. So the first question is: Which ages should there be? Here's a proposal. Any thoughts from you history buffs?

<b>The Spanish Main (1600-1680)</b>
Ships: Fleuts, Caravels, Galleons, Luggers, Sloops, Frigates (only with lateen sail), Pinnaces
Soldiers: Stock game soldiers for all nations

<b>The Golden Age (1680-1740)</b>
Ships: Fleuts, Caravels (less than Spanish Main) Galleons, Luggers, Sloops, Schooners, Pinnaces, Frigates, Brigs
Soldiers: English Deringer skins,

<b>Colonial Powers (1740-1770)</b>
Ships: Luggers, Sloops, Pinnaces, Schooners, Brigs, Frigates, Corvettes
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), other nations stock game skins

<b>Revolutions (1770-1790)</b>
Ships: Luggers, Sloops, Pinnaces, Schooners, Brigs, Frigates, Corvettes, Lineships, Warships, Battleships
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), other nations stock game skins
United States replaces Portugal [if possible]

<b>The Corsican (1790-1820) </b>
Ships: Luggers, Sloops, Schooners, Brigs, Frigates, Corvettes, Lineships, Warships, Battleships, Manowars
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), Spanish JMV "Zorro" skins
French flag replaced with tricolour [if possible]

Above is based on using only what we already have. Would be cool if we had more accurate soldier and officer skins for all periods. And had skins for the United States as well.
 
One problem I see for the early period is the game's use of quest ships that would no longer be available.
Brigs, Corvettes, Battleships, and Silhard's MoW quickly come to mind.


Another thing.
Ships left out of all periods include Galeoth, Barque, Yacht, Xebec.
 
just some minor details:

luggers such as in the game shouldn't occur in the first period; they didn't excist yet. although the shiptype 'lugger' did excist, the design such as the one in the game is newer. they belong in the second period and on.

i'm not exactly for having galleons and caravels in the second period. if they did still survive, it would have only been a handful, and only galleons. caravels had long since been extinct, in fact, they where getting rarer in the first period already. if they really need to be put in the second period, i'd put in only a few galleons in which have been adapted to desperately try to survive in the new age. i'm not saying this out of my personal opinion, actually, but out of what my books say.

frigates shouldn't be in the first period. besides that, they might take away the leading role of the galleons because of their greater speed. they do, however, belong in the second period and beyond. maybe a frigate version with a gaff is required for the third period. although they where still built, and the corvettes largely account for it.

the matter of brigs in the second period is a tricky one. in the beginning of the period, only ships like the 16-gun brig occured, but at the end of the period, the other brig types where in use. basically, they could all be used for that period. the 16-gun brig should NOT be in the third period. it was outdated and replaced by the newer, better designed ones.

you are spot on concerning fleuts and pinnaces. i can't comment on the uniforms.

EDIT: petros is right, and i HAD thought of that. maybe a time check for the quests as well?
 
Thanks Morgan. I was sure what I posted wouldn't be quite correct, so we need comments like yours! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=235494:date=Feb 2 2008, 10:52 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petros @ Feb 2 2008, 10:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One problem I see for the early period is the game's use of quest ships that would no longer be available.
Brigs, Corvettes, Battleships, and Silhard's MoW quickly come to mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Good point. We could simply ignore that notion, because the way I intend to code things would only apply to random ships and shipyards. Therefore keeping the quest ships as they are would not cause any bugs. It would just look somewhat oddish. But I don't know of any simple proper solution to that problem either. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
 
well, the quest ships do tend to be special in their own right, so it might not be TOO bad. though i think they could turn into uber-ships when playing in earlier periods.
 
Give each main quest ages where it is playable and areas where it's not. So allow the original main quest in the age it is set in.

By Manowar in the last period, do you include Ship-of-the-line?
 
I think the quest problem will solve itself. I forgot we are ALSO working on allowing the player to choose a pre-defined main character with accompanying main quest (Nathaniel Hawk, Beatrice Devlin, Jack Sparrow, Horatio Hornblower, Jack Aubrey, etc.) and each character would have his own main quest. Of course each character would also have the proper era for the quest and story set. Then there would also be a Custom Character selection screen where you could just choose what you would like yourself.
 
Having Selectable ages is an excellent idea. It would also be cool if the colony's differed in each age, for example in the spanish main period spanish citys would be bigger and wealtheir then the other european nations, but in the future ages they would get smaller and poorer due to spains decline. But that would be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT from what i understand.
 
Oh and we should also have something simliar that sid meier's pirates! had, in map mode underneath an islands name it would show the status of the city for example, Redmond, Wealthy English Capital Or Dowesen, Prosperous Dutch Trading Post.
 
I still don't really like this chronological cut. First it lack the XVI century. Then have we finally decided whether the player would choose between differents eras or between different dates (among a list of them or not)? For exemple I know some people who'll gladly start the game in 1812 under american flag. They would certainly not like to wait 22 game years because the 'Corsican Era' begins in 1790.

Maybe we should now brainstorm as well on how the Nations relations would be like in the different eras.
 
<!--quoteo(post=235551:date=Feb 2 2008, 08:32 PM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Feb 2 2008, 08:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still don't really like this chronological cut. First it lack the XVI century. ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that you mention it, the 1500s should be in there.

And as for piracy, with the ages as set in the first post, only the first age would realistically be one for uh.. them.

All the others are not "National Navy" types sans Petros' ships. :-c
 
Feel free to come up with better alternatives. I think there should be one gameplay era for each player style; no point in having three Napoleonic era's and such. Note that everything would remain the same in those era's: No new ships come available, no soldier models would change halfway into the era, etc. Reason is because that's complicated to code and players would likely never notice it happening at all.

Preferrably I would have as few era's as possible. How about:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Pirate Age</b>
No big, modern ships

<b>Napoleonic Age</b>
National colour schemes, big ships, Napoleonic French flag

<b>Colonial Age</b>
US replaces Portugal, JMV "Zorro" style Spanish soldiers

<b>Custom Age</b>
Can be defined in InternalSettings.h<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=235531:date=Feb 3 2008, 01:14 AM:name=Modder Freak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Modder Freak @ Feb 3 2008, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would also be cool if the colony's differed in each age, for example in the spanish main period spanish citys would be bigger and wealtheir then the other european nations, but in the future ages they would get smaller and poorer due to spains decline. But that would be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT from what i understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah; that <i>would</i> be extremely difficult. Not to mention a lot of work, because then you'd have to make all towns times three and update all quests to work no matter which town version is used.

<!--quoteo(post=235539:date=Feb 3 2008, 01:24 AM:name=Modder Freak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Modder Freak @ Feb 3 2008, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh and we should also have something simliar that sid meier's pirates! had, in map mode underneath an islands name it would show the status of the city for example, Redmond, Wealthy English Capital Or Dowesen, Prosperous Dutch Trading Post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What would that be for?
 
<!--quoteo(post=235531:date=Feb 3 2008, 01:14 AM:name=Modder Freak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Modder Freak @ Feb 3 2008, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would also be cool if the colony's differed in each age, for example in the spanish main period spanish citys would be bigger and wealtheir then the other european nations, but in the future ages they would get smaller and poorer due to spains decline. But that would be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT from what i understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could be doable ; however don't fool yourself with the 'spanish decline' in America - spanish cities didn't become smaller and poorer.
 
i have something more on the ships:

in ther first age, although there are sloops, bermuda sloops wouldn't excist yet. they might excist in the late second period. (talking about the periods list on the first page) as for schooners, only the regular schooner would be in the first age, not schooner types like the fast schooner or war schooner. the schooner actually started off like petros' ketch, but the second mast was later removed, which developed into the cutter.

if i'd know the definitive periods, i'll make a list of which ships should be where, in short.
 
<!--quoteo(post=235654:date=Feb 3 2008, 05:21 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Feb 3 2008, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235654"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feel free to come up with better alternatives. I think there should be one gameplay era for each player style; no point in having three Napoleonic era's and such. Note that everything would remain the same in those era's: No new ships come available, no soldier models would change halfway into the era, etc. Reason is because that's complicated to code and players would likely never notice it happening at all.

Preferrably I would have as few era's as possible. How about:<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Pirate Age</b>
No big, modern ships

<b>Napoleonic Age</b>
National colour schemes, big ships, Napoleonic French flag

<b>Colonial Age</b>
US replaces Portugal, JMV "Zorro" style Spanish soldiers

<b>Custom Age</b>
Can be defined in InternalSettings.h<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=235531:date=Feb 3 2008, 01:14 AM:name=Modder Freak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Modder Freak @ Feb 3 2008, 01:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would also be cool if the colony's differed in each age, for example in the spanish main period spanish citys would be bigger and wealtheir then the other european nations, but in the future ages they would get smaller and poorer due to spains decline. But that would be EXTREMELY DIFFICULT from what i understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah; that <i>would</i> be extremely difficult. Not to mention a lot of work, because then you'd have to make all towns times three and update all quests to work no matter which town version is used.

<!--quoteo(post=235539:date=Feb 3 2008, 01:24 AM:name=Modder Freak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Modder Freak @ Feb 3 2008, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh and we should also have something simliar that sid meier's pirates! had, in map mode underneath an islands name it would show the status of the city for example, Redmond, Wealthy English Capital Or Dowesen, Prosperous Dutch Trading Post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What would that be for?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It would be a cool addition because for example is you want to sack a city , there's no indicater on which citys have the most amount of loot. It would go in this order:

Prosperous
Wealthy
Modest
Poor
 
i still don't really see the need for something like that. at the moment, it's simply the bigger the town, the more loot you usually get, and you KNOW how big the towns are already. besides, you usually just sack any town you just come by at the time. loot is loot. you might just as well loot them all, simply because you can. therefor, difference in loot doesn't matter much.
 
<!--quoteo(post=235484:date=Feb 2 2008, 08:36 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Feb 2 2008, 08:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=235484"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We are currently considering to allow the player to select an age when starting the game. Depending on the selected age, some ships will be available and others unavailable. Possibly also the soldier skins will change according to the age. So the first question is: Which ages should there be? Here's a proposal. Any thoughts from you history buffs?

<b>The Spanish Main (1600-1680)</b>
Ships: Fleuts, Caravels, Galleons, Luggers, Sloops, Frigates (only with lateen sail), Pinnaces
Soldiers: Stock game soldiers for all nations

<b>The Golden Age (1680-1740)</b>
Ships: Fleuts, Caravels (less than Spanish Main) Galleons, Luggers, Sloops, Schooners, Pinnaces, Frigates, Brigs
Soldiers: English Deringer skins,

<b>Colonial Powers (1740-1770)</b>
Ships: Luggers, Sloops, Pinnaces, Schooners, Brigs, Frigates, Corvettes
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), other nations stock game skins

<b>Revolutions (1770-1790)</b>
Ships: Luggers, Sloops, Pinnaces, Schooners, Brigs, Frigates, Corvettes, Lineships, Warships, Battleships
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), other nations stock game skins
United States replaces Portugal [if possible]

<b>The Corsican (1790-1820) </b>
Ships: Luggers, Sloops, Schooners, Brigs, Frigates, Corvettes, Lineships, Warships, Battleships, Manowars
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), Spanish JMV "Zorro" skins
French flag replaced with tricolour [if possible]

Above is based on using only what we already have. Would be cool if we had more accurate soldier and officer skins for all periods. And had skins for the United States as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


As long as you can always have the Black Pearl and the other PoTC ships that's a good idea
 
The PotC ships will be available through the Jack Sparrow main quest, so they'd be available. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Here's some new thoughts for you to discuss: <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

<b>The Spanish Main (1600-1680)</b>
Ships: I'll leave that up to our history buffs
Soldiers: Stock game soldiers for all nations
Main quest(s): Bartolomeu o Portugues quest by Bartolomeu
Nation relations: Any thoughts?

<b>The Golden Age (1680-1740)</b>
Ships: I'll leave that up to our history buffs
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, other nations stock game skins
Main quest(s): Original Nathaniel Hawk quest (chest with cursed coins, Danielle, sink/capture the Black Pearl)
Nation relations: Any thoughts?

<b>Colonial Powers (1740-1770)</b>
Ships: I'll leave that up to our history buffs
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), other nations stock game skins
Main quest(s): Jack Sparrow's story by Short Jack Gold
Nation relations: Any thoughts?

<b>Revolutions (1770-1790)</b>
Ships: I'll leave that up to our history buffs
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), other nations stock game skins
Main quest(s): Master and Commander (Jack Aubrey)
Nation relations: England enemy to US. Any other thoughts?
United States replaces Portugal [if possible]

<b>The Corsican (1790-1820) </b>
Ships: I'll leave that up to our history buffs
Soldiers: English Deringer skins, French Deringer skins, Dutch Thomas the Terror skins (unreleased), Spanish JMV "Zorro" skins
Main quest(s): Horatio Hornblower
Nation relations: War between England and France. Spanish allied with France. England friendly with US. Any other thoughts?
French flag replaced with tricolour [if possible]
 
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