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    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Selectable Ages

<!--quoteo(post=238036:date=Feb 13 2008, 10:38 AM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Feb 13 2008, 10:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=238036"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Between 1580 and 1640 wasn't Portugal belonging to the King of Spain? All the wars against Portugal, waged by Dutchmen, Frenchmen and Englishmen were a consequence of the union of the two Crowns. At that moment there were the idea/propaganda of a Catholic union against the foreign heretics, that united together the two countries.

Portugal was at war against Spain from 1640 to 1668 officially. Peace or alliance treaties were signed with England, Holland and France between 1660 and 1668, when Portugal had managed to take back most of its possessions.

Things changed a lot between 1600 and 1680.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I perfectly know that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> But we have to do a choice seeing that we can't change the relations during a period (At least if we want to simplify the things <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> ). And for my main quest, I prefer these relations. Between 1580-1640 Portugal was ANNEXED <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":slap" border="0" alt="slap.gif" /> by Spain, now you understand why Bartolomeu o Portugues kill so many Spaniards <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />
 
Still have the picture <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
I did guess your point of view, Bartolomeu o Portuguess! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
But I mean, how could 'The Spanish Main' could make sens if Spain loose all the Portuguese possessions? In the Iberic peninsula, this moment can be perceived like the achevement of the processus that regrouped all the christian kingdoms into one new country, Spain. That wouldn't be really fair to the 'Empire in which the Sun didn't set'...

I mean there are two things we should discuss :
- should we really decide of unique attitude of nations toward each others in such long times,
- if we choose to do so, do we agree on Portugal being separated and hostile versus Spain in the first era
 
It IS possible to pre-set nation relations AND to change them through code. Timers are possible, therefore scripted relation changes are also possible. DURING a period. That wouldn't make things simpler though and I really do prefer to keep things simple. Not to mention I would like to have a mod that allows the player to mess up relations or smooth things out between the nations himself. So that might interfere pretty badly with scripted relations changes and the other way around. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
That mod could be funny, of course. But we have to consider that most of this wars started in Europe and ended there. What was going on far away cannot have that much influence. (unless you capture the Gold convoy...)
But considering gameplay, it is very interesting indeed to have the player actions having real consequences... I'm sure it is possible to mix up the two aspects, both historical events and player acts.

I think that one thing that could help is being able to quantify a nation power in the archipelago, based on how many cities it have, how many population and garnison, and lots of other things. That would give a number. I've got a lot of ideas on what we would be able to do with it, but I won't say it here. Basicly the player could affect this one. This number could be calculated every month ingame.
 
<!--quoteo(post=238079:date=Feb 13 2008, 05:17 PM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas the Terror @ Feb 13 2008, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=238079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still have the picture <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
Bartolomeu is back! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> Haven' t seen that fella in AGES. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=239786:date=Feb 20 2008, 05:20 PM:name=Cylon13)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cylon13 @ Feb 20 2008, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=239786"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bartolomeu is back! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> Haven' t seen that fella in AGES. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm working on my main quest <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
Oh ..eh ..well that's good to hear. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" />
 
This mod is being worked on. We tried to have different soldiers depending on the selected period, but I think the code could use some more rewrites. Would be good if only initModels.c would need to be edited to add another set of soldiers.
 
Got delayed with the portugese soldiers (of your pictures), because I am making a pack with soldiers of the period Spanish Main. I have finished the English and Spanish. I am now working on the Dutch, and I have some ideas for little changes for the French. It is very hard to find pictures for the Portugese soldiers. But I am basing them on some pictures of spanish soldiers (I get all my pictures of the Vinkhuizen Colletion of military uniforms, really, really helpfull! He was a dutch doctor (start 20th century) who collected and categorized all pictures of military uniforms over the whole world).

1.I was thinking of adding some logic to the names of the soldier models. Now we have for example: soldier_eng2, sol2_eng_77 and with my SM soldiers soldier_eng2_16. What I wanted to do was renaming the soldier models like I named my soldiers:
1500-1599: Soldier_eng2_15, Soldier_spa5_15
1600-1679: Soldier_eng2_16, Soldier_hol4_16
1679-1720: Soldier_eng2_17, Soldier_por_17
1720-1749: Soldier_eng2_18, Soldier_spa6_18
1790-1820: Soldier_eng2_19, Soldier_fra3_19

What do you think?

2.I also think we should look which nations had what ports in which period. Jamaica was for example Spanish till 1655, just as St Martin till 1640. And IF jamaica was Spanish, I think we should use the spanish version of Redmond (Used most of them in Havana), this can be done through simple code.

3. Then there is the thing of NORMAL characters, most of the rich_citizens clothes ingame, weren't used anymore in 1740. So we need also to categorize that part of the models. (AND NO BEGGARS with richmen's clothes please).

4. As for calculating power Simple virtual sailor suggested, I came with an other idea I got from an older thread of NathanKell about town economies. In rich cities you should see almost no beggars, and more people with fancy clothes. In poor colonies you would see more beggars and a lot of people in really simple clothes. Inez diaz talked about giving better buildings, or decorations to rich cities, like flowerpots (isn't a bad idea really!).
Powerful nations should also use more often bigger ships and stronger ships.
 
1. Sounds like a good idea. Our naming conventions are getting more and more confusing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

2. Pirate_KK is working on that. For example: He changed the English Port Royale (Redmond) into the Spanish Santiago Vega in the first age. So having towns owned by different nations in the various ages should be quite possible. As for replacing the town models: That should also be easy. Sounds like a good idea to me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

3. We could easily add an <i>if</i> statement around certain characters in initModels.c so that they're not used in inapproriate ages. I'd prefer to do it through the AssignModelType code though. And indeed NO MORE RICH BEGGARS PLEASE! We need to completely redo the character model assignment taking into account both in which cases the model should be used and in which periods.

4. Sounds like fun, but will probably be rather complicated. For now I'd be happy if we can get above things done. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/user_comment.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="user_comment.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=240494:date=Feb 23 2008, 09:54 AM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas the Terror @ Feb 23 2008, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=240494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is very hard to find pictures for the Portugese soldiers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, I confirm. I tried to find out another pictures on the web . But it's very hard. I even have difficulties to find out a book about portuguese military uniforms.
 
<!--quoteo(post=240516:date=Feb 23 2008, 02:14 PM:name=bartolomeu o portugues)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bartolomeu o portugues @ Feb 23 2008, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=240516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=240494:date=Feb 23 2008, 09:54 AM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas the Terror @ Feb 23 2008, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=240494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is very hard to find pictures for the Portugese soldiers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, I confirm. I tried to find out another pictures on the web . But it's very hard. I even have difficulties to find out a book about portuguese military uniforms.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

To Thomas the Terror :

Found this site, but not sure it can help you :

<a href="http://www.viriatus.com/R1640_1.asp" target="_blank">http://www.viriatus.com/R1640_1.asp</a>
 
1. I like this idea, soldier model names have to be logical and easy to use... The issue on my Douwesen soldiers mod Pieter warned me about is a good exemple of what could be solved easily with this.

4. It took me some times to read this old thread... So much ideas in it. I think we could open a new thread to sum up some of those ideas, see what progress have been done since, what we can do now and what we still can't or don't want to.
About the amont of beggars being regulated by the town wealth : yes, why not, as well than the number of random ennemies.
 
1. That problem is caused simply because you made that mod for the stock game soldiers and it doesn't work well with Thomas the Terror's reskins (yet).

4. I think having a town wealth influence should be a lesser priority. Let's first actualy ADD random beggars and give them appropriate dialog (Enc_beggar, which should be similar to Enc_walker) and then remove the beggar dialog from Enc_walker. Then once we managed that, we can worry about the AMOUNTS of walkers, enemies and beggars. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/user_comment.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="user_comment.gif" />
 
1. I know, but I say it will be easier to correct with standardised soldiers models names! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

4. Of course, I was about to post something on it in the 'Beggars' topic - just wait!
 
1. You're quite right, of course. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

4. Looking forward to it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
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