Mods and Game Difficulty

Fitzy · Dec 30, 2007

If it's 100-200 blocks then if a player keeps on top of it by repairing often it's unlikely to see a broken weapon I suppose the only time this would become an issue is if you were down and out and couldn't afford the repairs.

ronlosey · Dec 31, 2007

Again, the blade damage thing is either too much or none at all. It adds micro-management without really improving the game in any substantial way. With the new sword prices, anybody dealing in ships is not going to be seriously put out by the cost of a blade anyway... and since one blade is not that much better than another, nobody is going to want to wait for days to get one repaired. I say we scrap it ... if we want more variation by quality, just add more weapons to the game. (The new weapons can use the same model, but be slightly different on stats.)

My high school history teacher always told us, "Keep it simple, stupid" ... I think that's the best advice here. (One of the two most valuable things I learned in high school ... the other being "in a knife fight, never lead with the knife." I learned that last one from fools who spent a lot of time in the hospital for doing exactly that.)

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And Captain Fitzpatrick - I wasn't being dismissive of your knowledge of weapons, just pointing out that I am probably already aware of those things. (Some people were getting defensive, there ... no need for that.)

I still do need somebody to come up with some sources on presentation blades of the period. It's easy enough to look up what armies were using, but getting a good picture of a presentation sword is another thing.

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I found some more very unbalancing issues in the character traits and/or related to ship actions, but we'll wait on those until we get this sorted out.

ronlosey · Dec 31, 2007

Going through the list, I vote we make presentation blades out of the following:

Atwood (England - low-level presentation, not unique)
Conquistador (Spain)
Corsair's Pride (undecided)
Cardinal's Guard (France)
Saber of Nicholas Sharp (undecided)
Windmill Slayer (Holland)
Tulwar (blade 32) (undecided)
Solagen Rapier (undecided)
Silver Leaf (undecided)
Chieftan (blade 29) (undecided)

Those look the most like blades given in actual presentations of the time, at least what I can find by scanning online antiques auctions and photos from museums. (The British National Maritime Museum has a good collection.)

That's two per nation ... and blade 34 for a presentation by the pirate lords.

Also optional are 28 and 33 - the shashka and "black sea yatagan" ... they're decorative enough to be presentations.

Apparently, historically, nobody ever gave anybody a presentation cutlass. They were always sabers or smallswords of some variety, and the sabers were often very Arabic-looking. (The U.S. Marines still use the Mamluk swords for officer's swords, a left-over of their Barbary Coast campaigns.) This is a break from the older traditions, where presentation blades a few hundred years earlier had mostly been scary-looking heavy weapons.

Anyway, those are my calls on it. Votes? Comments?

Fitzy · Dec 31, 2007

I really don't want to get into an arguement about this but you were being dismissive about my knowledge and you were also getting on the defensive simply because I said I could have given you info, you thought I was saying you were wrong about things, when I hadn't even mentioned anything to the contrary.

Maybe this wasn't your intention and due to the late hour and the work you had been doing you didn't realise this is how your messages to me were coming across, This is understandable, but that is how they read, and if someones posts a message directed at me thats dismissive of something that I know about then yes I will back up what I have said with facts such as the info I posted earlier about some of the sword types in game, call it defensive if you want but I wouldn't have even had to make such a post had you not misinterpreted my offer of information.

But as you say that was not your intention then it seems we have both misunderstood one another and I am sorry for my part in it.

Often a presentation sword was exactly that, for presentation, Rapier's for example would have been presentation blades (coming from the spanish "espada ropera", meaning, Dress sword) it would have been used on parade etc and for actual fighting a more common sword would have been used as the presentation sword would have been far too expensive to risk getting damaged in battle or worse stolen.

Probably the reason that there wasn't any presentation Cutlass' (and I'm purely speculating here) is because this was an all purpose weapon, An advancement from the knives they used to butcher their meat and a while a gentleman officer would indeed hack his foes to bit's before he himself was hacked, in popular society a Gentleman couldn't be seen as a butcher of men, I would speculate the reason that presentation cutlasses weren't around was purely vanity, A rapier would have been seen as an elegant weapon fit for a gentleman while the cutlass was a common sailors weapon.

ronlosey · Dec 31, 2007

Chances are that there were no presentations of a cutlass because it was not really an officer's job to hack everybody into small pieces. That's what they had marines for. An officer was supposed to command, and so, looking distinguished was more vital than personal combat ability.

Rapiers are also good for defensive posturing, which is handy if you are an officer and your blade's primary job is to keep enemies off of you while your crew does their job. You may not kill anybody, but you can keep them from wanting a piece of you too badly. Heavier weapons, in contrast, are generally more useful on the attack than on the defensive... which is a good way to have some casualties among your officers on a ship boarding, which could get real expensive.

But that being pointless - the issue is that presentation blades must be chosen from among the rapiers and sabers, in order to maintain some solidarity with history.

----------------------------------

Anyway, round one on the blade changes is out ... everybody play with it a bit. I'll try to figure out where that hit point code goes. I'm not real good at that sort of thing - it would be better if someone else would compile that for us.

We need votes on the presentation swords - which ones should we give to which countries? And of course, somebody will have to write the code for that. I'll get descriptions.

OddjobXL · Dec 31, 2007

If presentation swords are going to have superior stats for gameplay reasons, as rare rewards, it might not be implausible for a PoTC setting for more unlikely blades like cutlasses to also come in superior variants. Maybe there's a good pirate smith who makes exceptional cutlasses or for some sea witch to have placed a lucky charm on a sword. The European powers outside of the EIC don't seem to be as important as the pirate factions when taken together as a whole. So piratical items should probably be part of the mix insofar as this game is intended to bear relation to the films.

ronlosey · Dec 31, 2007

The large number of lucky charms and the like probably cover the non-national issues. And the presentation swords were not going to have that significantly better of stats, except for maybe a bonus to leadership as a direct result of it being a presentation sword. ("He's our leader ... the KING gave him that sword, personally.")

Question still, which blades should we give to which countries?

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 31 2007, 04:37 AM) [snapback]229321[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>Going through the list, I vote we make presentation blades out of the following:</div>Nicholas Sharp was the main character of the original Sea Dogs game. Currently his blade already IS unique, but you get it through the Toff Oremans quest at Douwesen. Personally I would keep that particular blade available through that quest and not make it a presentation blade.

I want the Solingen Rapier to be Dutch. Firstly because there's a reference to the Dutch in its item description and secondly because it's my favourite blade in the game. Especially after Petros' improvements on it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheeky

" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 31 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]229329[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I'll try to figure out where that hit point code goes. I'm not real good at that sort of thing - it would be better if someone else would compile that for us.</div>It goes at the top of PROGRAM\Loc_ai\LAi_CreateOfficer.c, replacing the original <i>ResetHP</i> function. Find attached my version of the file with the new HP code added in. Since this file came from my Build 14 Alpha 8 WIP version, it probably isn't readily compatible with whatever game version you're having right now, but it does show you what the top of the file looks like. I recommend renaming the "CHAR" settings back to "PLAYER" settings so that the original #defines can be used and don't need to be renamed. See <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=11328&view=findpost&p=229053" target="_blank">this</a> post for the correct code to put in there. If you're still having trouble with it, please post your LAi_CreateOfficer.c file here and I'll put it in for you. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 31 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]229329[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>And of course, somebody will have to write the code for that. I'll get descriptions.</div>Making the blades unique should be as easy as adding them to the unique switch in PROGRAM\ITEMS\initItems.c:<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>        switch(id)
        {
            case "blade18":        Unique = true;                break;    // PB: Saber of Nicholas Sharp
        }</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 31 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]229329[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>We need votes on the presentation swords - which ones should we give to which countries? And of course, somebody will have to write the code for that. I'll get descriptions.</div>Last week I wrote some (untested) code for giving new uniforms on promotion:<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>void AssignPromotionModel()
{
    ref pchar = GetMainCharacter();
    switch(GetCurrentLocationNation())
    {
        case ENGLAND:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // Midshipman
                    if(pchar.model == "cnorrington")        pchar.model = "Mdnorrington";
                break;
                case 2: // Lieutenant
                    if(pchar.model == "depp")                pchar.model = "47_Ltsparrow";
                    if(pchar.model == "Mdnorrington")        pchar.model = "Ltnorrington";
                //    if(pchar.model == "blaze")                pchar.model = "47_Blaze_brtlt";
                break;
                case 4: // Captain
                    if(pchar.model == "47_Ltsparrow")        pchar.model = "47_Cptsparrow";
                    if(pchar.model == "Ltnorrington")        pchar.model = "cnorrington";
                //    if(pchar.model == "47_Blaze_brtlt")        pchar.model = "47_Blaze_brtcpt";
                break;
                case 5: // Commodore
                    if(pchar.model == "47_Cptsparrow")        pchar.model = "47_Cosparrow";
                    if(pchar.model == "cnorrington")        pchar.model = "Conorrington";
                //    if(pchar.model == "47_Blaze_brtcpt")    pchar.model = "47_Blaze_brtco";
                break;
            }
        break;
    }
}</div>
We could simply add a GiveItem2Character command to the various promotion cases for the various nations here. Shouldn't be much of a problem. Of course there will then not be any talk about it in the dialog yet; that would require some additional work by modifying all governor's dialogs. That's quite a bit more work, but getting the actual blades being handed out shouldn't be too much of a problem. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :no

" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

ronlosey · Dec 31, 2007

Solagen Rapier - Dutch.

Nicholas Sharp sword - already attached to a quest.

Only about a dozen more to decide on. Then I can write the new descriptions.

Can we give the grapeshot pistol a scattergun effect? That seems to be what it was designed to do.

(If I don't get bogged down in my other modding project ... seems several of the guys over on M&B just decided this week would be a good time to get some stuff going. How come I never get things in order - I always have either nothing to do, or I'm spread too thin.)

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2007

A scattergun effect? You mean like the blunderbuss? Should be quite possible. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

I'll get back to you on those presentation blades. But my thoughts will have no base on any historical knowledge at all. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2007

This is our current full list of blades, along with my comments based on what Ron Losey suggested before and some of my own thoughts:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>blade5: Dagger - pathetic little thing. Only a little bit better than your fists
blade1: Saber - generic blade
blade2: Rapier - generic blade
blade4: Cutlass - generic blade
blade7: Yataghan - generic blade
blade3: Badelaire - generic blade
blade6: Schiavona - generic blade
blade11: Highlander - generic blade
blade13: Needle - generic blade
<i>blade8: Maltese Knight - used in the Maltese Knight Abbey - unique?</i>
<i>blade12: Dragon's Tongue - generic blade - rename "Arabic Scimitar"?</i>
<b>blade18: Sharp's Saber - unique, available through the Toff Oremans quest</b>
<b>blade15: Brazo del Colon - unique, Portuguese presentation blade</b>
blade10: Piranha - generic blade
blade16: Tizona - generic blade
blade19: Vagrant - generic blade
blade20: Squall - generic blade
blade21: Falchion - generic blade
blade17: Flamigera - generic blade
<b>blade9: Silver Leaf - unique, French presentation blade</b>
<b>blade14: Conquistador - unique, Spanish presentation blade</b>
<b>blade22: Corsair's Pride - unique, English presentation blade</b>
<b>blade23: Windmill Slayer - unique, Spanish presentation blade</b> <i>(never forget Don Quixote! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheeky

" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />)</i>
<b>blade25: Cardinal's Guard - unique, French presentation blade</b>
<b>blade26: Solingen Rapier - unique, Dutch presentation blade</b>
<b>blade24: Atwood's Saber - unique, English presentation blade</b> - <i>rename "Officer's saber"?</i>
<i>blade27: Bosun's Choice - unique, Fred Bob only?</i>
blade28: Shamshir - generic blade
blade29: Chieftan / Broadsword - generic blade
blade30: Dueling Saber - generic blade
blade31: Snake Head - generic blade
<b>blade32: Damascus Shamshir - unique, Portuguese presentation blade</b>
<b>blade33: Black Sea Yataghan - unique, Dutch presentation blade</b>
<b>blade34: Dragon's Head - unique, pirate presentation blade</b></div>

morgan terror · Dec 31, 2007

no objections to that list. is the sequence in which they are put down also the sequence in which their combat effectiveness is rated, from bad to good, from up to down?

ronlosey · Dec 31, 2007

A couple of oddities, there, but if everybody is good with that, I'll type it up.

I actually picked out the "windmill slayer" as a Dutch blade because the hilt looks like some used in and issued by Holland. Whoever found the model originally was not thinking of Don Quixote being Spanish - they were thinking of the windmill being Dutch. Would probably be better to trade it to Holland. Either way, the name has to go.

I thought 29 would make a better presentation than 15 as well. Blade 15 has an impressive-sounding name, but the model itself is rather bland-looking ... not normally the kind of thing handed out at presentations.

And just about everything could use to be renamed.

And yeah, I meant scattergun effect like the blunderbuss. Both will probably need to be tweaked for shot pattern and damage.

Edit: And there is no "sequence from good to bad" ... the stats are unique to every weapon, and depend heavily on your preferred style.

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2007

The sequence is the same sequence they're in initItems.c. The order does not have anything to do with their effectiveness at all. At least not code-wise. Originally the order indeed approximated their effectiveness, but not anymore with the addition of the SLiB mod blades and Ron Losey's stat changes.

morgan terror · Dec 31, 2007

the windmill slayer is an exact copy of a sword once used by a famous privateer or pirate, in any case an important naval character. i don't remember who it was though. maybe it was francis drake.

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2007

We also have a "Francis Drake's Blade" in the game. You can get that one through one of Bartolomeu's quests.

morgan terror · Dec 31, 2007

i bought one of them once at one of those sneaky merchants, actually.

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 31 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]229425[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>A couple of oddities, there, but if everybody is good with that, I'll type it up.</div>My list is definitly not meant to be final. It's just meant to give us something to work with. Feel free to make any changes you like. I based my assignment on neither historical knowledge nor on the actual 3D models, so take it with a lot of grains of salt. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheeky

" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

As for the scattergun effect: We'd just need to add an <i>itm.multidmg = 1;</i> attribute. There is no additional tweaking we can do; the actual value has no impact at all. It's either multidamage or no multidamage. At least until we rewrite the code for it. But I think that's a bit too much trouble for now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
I have added this attribute to the grapeshot pistol in my own game now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

Fitzy · Dec 31, 2007

I am never drinking again <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/urgh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":urgh" border="0" alt="urgh.gif" /> well at least until new years eve <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> ah thats today <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :rolleyes:

" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> ah well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

I had a thought would it be possible to attach a skill requirement to swords, i.e., needing to have say 6, 8 or 10 in the melee skill to reflect the training that certain swords need to use effectively rather than a character level requirement (As we all choose different skills while playing), if it was possible then you could have presentation swords but also a couple of swords above this level meaning only the best melee fighters could use these swords.

As I say just a thought to make a few swords <i>truly</i> high end, they could be unique swords like the saber of nicholas sharp, possibly a reward for any new quests that people have been writting or whatever.

morgan terror · Dec 31, 2007

you know, i'm totally for that idea! it makes sense too. some blades really need some skill to use properly.

Mods and Game Difficulty

Sailor Apprentice

Freebooter

Freebooter

Sailor Apprentice

Freebooter

Landlubber

Freebooter

Navigation Officer

Freebooter

Navigation Officer

Navigation Officer

Magnificent bastard

Freebooter

Navigation Officer

Magnificent bastard

Navigation Officer

Magnificent bastard

Navigation Officer

Sailor Apprentice

Magnificent bastard