Mods and Game Difficulty

[Pieter Boelen]

First of all, thanks VERY much for working on this, Ron! If this works out the way you make it sound, it will add a lot of gameplay value to the game! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />

I was thinking if perhaps we could also add the BLADE_DAMAGE mod into this all, so that a heavy blade would take a lot longer to deteriorate than, say, a fragile rapier.

Also: How about the thought of having blades rewarded by the governors on promotions? We could make some of the blades unique and only used for this purpose. And we could give them a skill bonus as suggested by me before. Which blades should then be rewarded by which governors?

Improved item descriptions would also be welcome: Go right ahead with it.

I'll see what I can do about the HP bonus per level. I think I found the appropriate code yesterday. I think I posted it when I posted all difficulty-related code two pages back.

<!--quoteo(post=228527:date=Dec 29 2007, 11:18 PM:name=Captain Fitzpatrick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Captain Fitzpatrick @ Dec 29 2007, 11:18 PM) [snapback]228527[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if theres a way to hide this good loot from characters like the rpg trader mod works, meaning that the character can't get items that are higher than it's level from corpses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That should be possible, I think. Then you'd simply not get to see those items that are above your own character level. Of course when all blades are made just about equally good, just different, what's the point of having a character level limitation? Except for those blades that <i>are</i> slightly better than the others. Perhaps we should make the item minlevel change with with item quality. That way a low level character could use a worn rapier, but could not yet loot an excellent rapier. However, you could give yourself a slight advantage by going to a blacksmith and having him fix up your worn rapier to excellent anyway. But that would be for a price. So: no advantages unless you're willing to pay for it.

<!--quoteo(post=228531:date=Dec 30 2007, 12:06 AM:name=Julian)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Julian @ Dec 30 2007, 12:06 AM) [snapback]228531[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Out of my simple (and humble !) playing experience, I think the low prices suggested for common weponry will work out great combined with tuning of the levels and difficulty... as long as there would still be a difference between "cheap and dull" and a blade a governor would award at a promotion ceremony.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was thinking of adding a skill attribute to those blades awarded by the governors. So that when you choose to use the blade you have been given, you get a bonus to your skills. You then get the dillema between using the blade you have been given or using another blade. Because the blade you have been given might not have the stats you yourself would prefer to have. But you only get the skill bonus if you'd use <i>that</i> blade. That way the governor-awarded blades would also not be incredibly good, but still special.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=228575:date=Dec 30 2007, 05:51 AM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 05:51 AM) [snapback]228575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But to go on with this, we need the code to limit hit points, and we need it yesterday.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think this is the code you want. And I actually <a href="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=11328&view=findpost&p=228507" target="_blank">did post it yesterday</a>. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
PROGRAM\Loc_ai\LAi_CreateOfficer.c:<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// NK added 05-07-03 as centralized HP setting thing.
float ResetHP(ref chr)
{
    int type = 0;
    int PlayerHPperLevel = PLAYER_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL;
    int PlayerStartHP = PLAYER_START_HITPOINTS;
    float HP = LAI_DEFAULT_HP;
    float level = makefloat(GetLevel(&chr));
    if(CheckAttribute(chr, "HPBonus")) HP += stf(chr.HPBonus);
    if(sti(chr.index) != GetMainCharacterIndex())
    {
        if(CheckAttribute(chr, "officer") && sti(chr.officer)) { type = 1; }
        else { if(CheckAttribute(chr, "friend") && sti(chr.friend)) { type = 2; }
            else { type = 3; }
        }
    }
    switch(type)
    {
        case 1: HP += level * (11-GetDifficulty()); break; // officer
        case 2: HP += level * (11-GetDifficulty()); break; // friend
        case 3: HP += level * makeint(pow(GetDifficulty()+1,1.35)); break; // enemy
        // case 0, default--PChar.
        // ---> El Rapido
        HP += PLAYER_START_HITPOINTS + (level - 1) * PlayerHPperLevel - LAI_DEFAULT_HP;
        // <--- El Rapido
    }
// LDH --> Added toughness perk from elrapido verson of ResetMaxHP
    if(IsCharacterPerkOn(chr, "Toughness"))
    {
        HP = HP * 1.1;            // 10% health bonus for the tough guys
        chr.chr_ai.hp_dlt = 0.2;    // higher regeneration rate, default is 0.1
    }
    chr.chr_ai.hp_max = HP;
// LDH <--
    LAi_SetHP(&chr, HP, HP);
    return HP;
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
By the looks of it, <i>"11-GetDifficulty()"</i> is the HP per level for officers and friends. This gives 11-1=10 HP per level on the lowest difficulty for those groups. For the player it can be set with <i>PLAYER_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL</i> which also defaults to 10. For enemies it works completely different with <i>"(GetDifficulty()+1)^1.35"</i>. Also it seems that <i>LAI_DEFAULT_HP</i> (defaulting to 40.0 and defined in PROGRAM\Loc_ai\LAi_defines.c) has something to do with it, but I don't quite understand what that's for.

It seems that perhaps this here code should be rewritten completely. Any idea how the new code should perform? How should the HP be calculated for the different character groups: player, officers, friends and enemies? What influence should difficulty have? What should be the tweakable InternalSettings.h values?

 

[ronlosey]

With what I changed so far, and assuming the HP thing gets worked out...

One, scrap the blade damage thing. Odds are highly against any kind of a sword taking damage that you couldn't remove with a sharpening stone. It didn't add any game play ... it did add an annoying degree of micro-managing, especially for your other officers.

Two, don't sweat the levels. Now a good quality cutlass is probably overkill against most targets anyway, so the "high-level" weapons are probably not going to help that much, unless you get enemies wearing armor.

Three ... yeah, I'm for presentation blades. When I do descriptions, I'll pick some blades to be presentations. The Atwood, Corsair's Pride, Cardinal's Guard for France ... Anybody have any research on presentation blades of the period? We could at least pick the ones that look the most like what was really being used for presentations by the various countries. (Translation: I'm a fair historian and a good swordsman, but what the devil was Spain handing out as presentation swords in 1700? I bet there's not a history prof at the school who could answer that one off the top of his head.) I can tweak the stats a bit to go with that... at least the price. Make presentation blades +1 leadership (preferably if they are equipped or not - hanging on a wall of the captain's cabin makes the same point).

If you want to seriously limit the number of blades in the regular game, we could go two levels of presentations - one for when you make military officer (Captain, maybe), another when you make nobility (leadership +2)... or one for general reward (national award sword), and one for some special personal favor to a high-ranking person (rare and exotic blade from who-knows-where). That would eat about half the existing blades in the game.

Four, I'll get to the guns next. We can scrap the annoying personal ammo ... just increase reload times across the board to make up for it. (i.e. nobody is going to fire more than a dozen or so shots between trips from the ship, because it will take too much time to reload.) That will eliminate both the annoying micro-managing and the imbalance caused by the player and friends having a lot of firearms.

But first ... HP scale changes.
Also ... any sources anybody can cook up on presentation swords of the period.

Secondarily, can we limit certain blades to certain people? I could do more with the description, if I knew that a weapon called a "British Officer's Sword" would uniformly turn up in the hands of British officers.

And, of course, if we ever get through this, we can move on to some of those other suggested changes... some of which interest me more, but I lack the skills to code them.


-------------------------
Edit: Posted same time as me.

For the hit-point code, just add one point per level over default (whatever you start with - 40 I think). Give that to EVERYBODY - player, officers, troops, enemies, shopkeepers, monkeys ... across the board.

That will do the job.

 

[Thomas the Terror]

monkeys less. Otherwise they will be TOO dangerous.

 

[ronlosey]

<!--quoteo(post=228709:date=Dec 30 2007, 10:13 PM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thomas the Terror @ Dec 30 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]228709[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->monkeys less. Otherwise they will be TOO dangerous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Monkeys don't wear armor ... they won't take more than a hit or two, unless your preferred weapon is a barbecue skewer.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One, scrap the blade damage thing. Odds are highly against any kind of a sword taking damage that you couldn't remove with a sharpening stone. It didn't add any game play ... it did add an annoying degree of micro-managing, especially for your other officers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Do we keep the various blade qualities? I always found it odd that when you have something called "worn saber", that your saber can't actually wear out. That was the main reason for adding that mod. So if we do keep the blade quality mod, and I think we can safely do so, we should also have some sort of deteriorating of quality. WITH a toggle on it, obviously. Also I like the fact that sometimes enemies' blades will break and they'll run away. Just to give some slight variation.

I don't recall any recent complaints about blades breaking too quickly and it becoming annoying from people who have actually been playing the game for a while. I don't think blades break very quickly at all.

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Two, don't sweat the levels. Now a good quality cutlass is probably overkill against most targets anyway, so the "high-level" weapons are probably not going to help that much, unless you get enemies wearing armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What about my thought of having different minlevels for the different blade qualities? See my previous post.

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Three ... yeah, I'm for presentation blades. When I do descriptions, I'll pick some blades to be presentations. The Atwood, Corsair's Pride, Cardinal's Guard for France ... Anybody have any research on presentation blades of the period? We could at least pick the ones that look the most like what was really being used for presentations by the various countries.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->First we should decide which blades will be the presentation blades. Then we should decide the nation for each of these blades. Each nation should get roughly the same number of blades. Then we should decide when these blades are awarded. This could be different for each nation. For example: England might give an average presentation blade on an early promotion, but France might give a much better presentation blade on a higher level. This will need some thoughts.

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make presentation blades +1 leadership.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The presentation blades don't all nescessarily need to give a leadership bonus. Some might give a fencing bonus or something else instead. Just to add some variety between the various nations. I think we really need to make each nation unique. Otherwise it wouldn't matter which nation you serve and with whom you're at war because "a nation" is just "a nation" that just happens to have a name, but they might just be called Nation 1 and Nation 2 for the same gameplay effect. Anyway, that probably deserves its own thread.

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->preferably if they are equipped or not - hanging on a wall of the captain's cabin makes the same point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was thinking that if you don't use the blade, your enemies don't see it and won't know you have it, so you wouldn't get the bonus. Of course your crew and officers WOULD know you have it. I think right now you only get a bonus for those items you actually have equipped, but I don't know how it would work for blades, because no skill modifiers have been added to blades yet. In any case: I would personally prefer to only have the bonus when you actually use the blade. That could add some conflict between getting the skill bonus or using the blade you actually WANT to use. Also: It would make sure you can't have too much of a stacked skill bonus. Otherwise you could join all navies, get all presentation blades and get really high skills for everything because your cabin is like a presenation blade museum. If you must have the blade equipped, you must choose which skill bonus you actually want to use.
While I'm at it, perhaps some really clumsy low-end blades could have a -1 fencing effect?

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want to seriously limit the number of blades in the regular game, we could go two levels of presentations - one for when you make military officer (Captain, maybe), another when you make nobility (leadership +2)... or one for general reward (national award sword), and one for some special personal favor to a high-ranking person (rare and exotic blade from who-knows-where). That would eat about half the existing blades in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Interesting. I think we should have at least one presentation sword per nation, possibly two. I don't think we really need to limit the amount of blades in the game too extensively. Right now we've got about 40 different-looking blades. There are 5 nations (excluding the pirates). So 2 presentation blades per nation would still give us 30 non-unique blades, which should be plenty. Three presentation blades per nation becomes a bit much though.

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Four, I'll get to the guns next. We can scrap the annoying personal ammo ... just increase reload times across the board to make up for it. (i.e. nobody is going to fire more than a dozen or so shots between trips from the ship, because it will take too much time to reload.) That will eliminate both the annoying micro-managing and the imbalance caused by the player and friends having a lot of firearms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Would there be any useful purpose that the ammunition items <i>could</i> serve? I would consider it unfortunate to remove all that stuff from the game completely; Jack Rackham did make a lot of work of it. So if we could find some alternate purpose than what they have now, I would much prefer that over removing them completely.

<!--quoteo(post=228705:date=Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]228705[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Secondarily, can we limit certain blades to certain people? I could do more with the description, if I knew that a weapon called a "British Officer's Sword" would uniformly turn up in the hands of British officers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sure we can. We'd need to figure out how, but there IS code that gives blades to characters and blades do have a nation attribute. So it shouldn't be too hard to make sure that blades with a set nation are only used by random characters of that nation. Now limiting blades to, say, soldiers or officers only would be a bit more complicated. Not sure how to handle that, but I think it <i>can</i> be done.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Try this. I made it as simple as I could.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// NK added 05-07-03 as centralized HP setting thing.
// PB: Simplified and uniformized for all characters
float ResetHP(ref chr)
{
    float HP = CHAR_START_HITPOINTS;
    float level = makefloat(GetLevel(&chr));
    if(CheckAttribute(chr, "HPBonus")) HP += stf(chr.HPBonus);
    HP += (level - 1) * CHAR_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL;
// LDH --> Added toughness perk from elrapido verson of ResetMaxHP
    if(IsCharacterPerkOn(chr, "Toughness"))
    {
        HP = HP * 1.1;            // 10% health bonus for the tough guys
        chr.chr_ai.hp_dlt = 0.2;    // higher regeneration rate, default is 0.1
    }
    chr.chr_ai.hp_max = HP;
// LDH <--
    LAi_SetHP(&chr, HP, HP);
    return HP;
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
You should rename PLAYER_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL to CHAR_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL and PLAYER_START_HITPOINTS to CHAR_START_HITPOINTS in InternalSettings.h. Then set CHAR_START_HITPOINTS to 40 and CHAR_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL to 1. This code is untested but should, in theory, work.

You will still be able to get a HP bonus from house occupants and the Greenford apothecary when collecting the four items. Toughness still gives characters some additional HP like before. Also there is no longer any difficulty level influence. And LAI_DEFAULT_HP is also no longer used here, though it IS used elsewhere. Not sure what that value is for anyway. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

One thing to keep in mind: Many characters, mostly quest-hired officers, have got a HP bonus defined in their character init file. This might give them a bit too much HP now, so if we decide to use this code, we might need to tone those assigned bonuses down a notch.

 

[ronlosey]

The various qualities ... I'm not sure. It puts a lot more variation into the weapons, but I'm not sure if that helps or not. Thing is, the player always gets the better ones, so it tends to be unbalancing. It might be better to scrap that too... as there should be enough variation now. One way to find out - turn off the blade quality thing for a game and see how it changes the feel.

Thing is, if we make them wear out at reasonable levels, it will be a non-issue anyway - a blade would take years of heavy use to really start looking bad. If we leave them wearing out much faster than that, it's just more annoying details to micro-manage. It's a no-win situation.

My gut feeling is to scrap the quality levels entirely. If we want more variation, make two different weapons that use the same model. (We did a bunch of that junk in M&B - mostly the other way, several models with the same stats, for cosmetic reasons.)

I don't think the ammo items can help, unless you want to just hang them on the belt for decoration any time a gun is equipped. I would say that the speed-loader flask could improve loading times, but that could be unbalancing again.

I mean, I hate to say to just scrap a bunch of people's projects over the last year or so ... but if they don't help, they don't help ... and excess baggage is one thing we have no shortage of, here. Same thing was going on back about the alpha of build 13, when we found a bunch of sailing and cannon codes that, while they were probably written with some purpose in mind, were conflicting to create a really convoluted mess. (Hook cleaned that up for us then ... Thanks, Hook.)

I say presentation blades should be leadership bonus, because it's logical. Some monarch sends you a special sword, and your troops think you're special. It also reduces the compiled bonus effect, because you could raise your leadership to 10 by impressing one (or every) monarchy in Europe, but it would do nothing for any other stats. That would limit the impact of such, while still making the item valuable. As for differences between countries, I suspect the actual nature of the weapons will be different enough.

I'll do some actual research to decide which blades should be presentation weapons and for which countries. Help on that is invited, but please supply sources... I'm sick of guesswork. It's my academic background coming out.

On that note, where are the text descriptions of various blades stored? I couldn't find them earlier.

By the way, do we have a converter that will import .obj files ... convert them to .gm format? It might, in some cases, be easier to just start over on some of these, build some more historical-looking weapons.

The bad news is, this was the EASY project. Editing attributes and code to make the ship combat work smoothly - that's going to be a REAL pain.

Personally, right now I have to get some sleep. Otherwise, being incoherent is seriously going to set back my ability to be helpful. I'll see what I can figure out for the guns, and start on blade descriptions, tomorrow.

 

[morgan terror]

i like the ammo mod. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> the only thing i don't like is that my officers need ammunition as well, but i easily solve that by just not giving them guns. as long as it's just the main character using ammo, it would work fine.

i never use the bladedamage mod, i always turn it off, and so does nearly everyone else from what i've heard. but the different qualities are something, in my opinion, that we should keep. for instance, if you find a good sword, but the quality is bad, you still can't use it effectively. there's the high block, which is very useful, but you can't fight enemies with toughness with it. therefor, you need to use your slightly less good sword for the time being until you get to a blacksmith to improve the thing. one thought i'm having here is making the blades not of a certain quality due to wear and tear, but of the overall skillp put into making it. for instance, you'd have poor, average, and excellent blades. taking them to a blacksmith (could) improve their quality. i say could because you don't know if it's a good blacksmith or not. wasn't that what you suggested earlier?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=228728:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:23 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]228728[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The various qualities ... I'm not sure. It puts a lot more variation into the weapons, but I'm not sure if that helps or not. Thing is, the player always gets the better ones, so it tends to be unbalancing. It might be better to scrap that too... as there should be enough variation now. One way to find out - turn off the blade quality thing for a game and see how it changes the feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That's why I suggested the minlevel thing. If the player does want to get the improved effect of a better blade, he'll need to pay for it; he can't actually loot a blade with a minlevel higher than his.

I really don't like to have to remove a lot of people's work - it would be most unfortunate - but perhaps in some cases it <i>is</i> for the best. I just like the slightly random events of enemies' blades breaking and running out of gunpowder (DRAT! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/boom.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":boom" border="0" alt="boom.gif" /> ), etc. Or perhaps gunpowder is a much less annoying mod if it only applies to the pchar like Morgan suggested. Right now it only applies to player and officers. Or perhaps these mods could be kept, but the toggle turned off by default.

 

[morgan terror]

the occasional misfire of the firearm could be interesting too. there IS actually an animation for a misfire, which looks pretty nice, but it isn't actually used to it's full potential. you can look at the animation when you have no ammo for a weapon, still keep it equipped, and then go to another location. then try to fire, which you CAN do. you'll just see a few sparks and hear a click.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=228728:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:23 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]228728[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On that note, where are the text descriptions of various blades stored? I couldn't find them earlier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->RESOURCE\INI\TEXTS\ENGLISH\ItemsDescribe.txt. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=228728:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:23 PM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]228728[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, do we have a converter that will import .obj files ... convert them to .gm format? It might, in some cases, be easier to just start over on some of these, build some more historical-looking weapons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->We can convert X and VRML to GM with Inez Dias' Tool, but not OBJ. Perhaps if we use 3D Studio MAX to turn the OBJ files into VRML. GM Viewer can export to OBJ, but not import. Perhaps we could... uhm... borrow some weapons from Russian mods or AoP. I know there's plenty of stuff around. But why not just use what we already have? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

 

[Fitzy]

<!--quoteo(post=228664:date=Dec 30 2007, 07:53 AM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Dec 30 2007, 07:53 AM) [snapback]228664[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, well, edged weapon combat (ancient and modern) is a little more than my hobby. I've made quite a study of it, including a lot of volunteer work teaching police and security people how to survive knife attacks. Unfortunately, part of my study was less than academic... and I hope I never have to go through that again.

Granted, the weapons I know best were not exactly from the period in question, but still I doubt my estimates are too far off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, well, for some reason you seem to be thinking that by me offering my knowledge of swords from this period in history that it means I'm saying your estimates are wrong, far from it.

When you consider that I have a collection of swords from different time periods you begin to see that it's alot more than just a hobby for me and is something that I have studied in depth and is academic...

There is alot of artistic license in the game when it comes to swords and the in game pictures really don't give any clue as to the weapon itself, which accordng to you you've used computer game pictures to make your sword estimates, which is why I said I could have supplied information on the actual swords..

A cutlass for example is around 24 inches in length, and was probably the most common type of sword used in the golden age of pirates the short lenght of it made it ideal for use in the close space of a ship, it didn't require alot of training to use, basically you can pick it up and hack away without any need of training.

Rapier, averages out around 40 inches,the rapier required alot of skill to use, skill which usually had to be taught, something reserved for the rich and powerful, not your average sailor, this was primarily a thrusting weapon with alot of rapiers being only sharpened half way up the blade to allow some cutting ability but more often than not the edges weren't sharpened at all. This was usually used with a Poniard which wasn't a sword at all but actually a long thrusting dagger, what made this different from other daggers is that like the rapier the edges weren't sharpened

When the blade and the hilt of rapiers underwent changes in size and form in the late 17th century , the English language reacted to this development by introducing a new term, smallsword. A small sword wasn't really that small at about 30 to 40 inches, the "small sword" was in fact the updated rapier, again this was a thrusting weapon and it needed skill to use properly.

The Schiavona this might look like a rapier in game but it's far better than a rapier. it's historically the preference of cavalry, it could be used to cut and thrust in equal measure and the game really doesn't do it justice, this was really a very good sword yet in the game it's decidedly average.

The saber saw most of it's use in the early 19th century most notably in the napoleonic wars (this is not to say that pirates never had sabers far from it, just that it wasn't a common weapon of the time), again this was a common cavalry weapon which had differnt blade types, typically it had a curved blade but it could also have a long straight blade the sabre remained the standard weapon of cavalry for mounted action in most armies until World War I (1914–18).It was relegated to the status of a ceremonial weapon when horse cavalry was replaced with tanks etc, some think this was developed from the Dao others believe it was developed from the european Falchion or the central Asian Scimitar.

These are just a few examples of what I know through study, so please don't be thinking I am trying to take away from anything you have done and please don't be thinking that because part of your study on edge warfare is accademc that you know far more than everyone else. I simply said I could have offered some info on the sword types had you needed them, in no way does this add up to me saying your wrong about anything.

Please if you misunderstand something in any one of my posts don't add 2 and 2 together to make 5, just ask, it's alot more polite than trying to make out I'm saying your wrong about things.


Edit: I really like the idea of having the best type of swords given as a quest reward or promotion reward.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

On second thought, make this your testing code:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// NK added 05-07-03 as centralized HP setting thing.
// PB: Simplified and uniformized for all characters
float ResetHP(ref chr)
{
    float HP = PLAYER_START_HITPOINTS;
    float level = makefloat(GetLevel(&chr));
    if(CheckAttribute(chr, "HPBonus")) HP += stf(chr.HPBonus);
    HP += (level - 1) * PLAYER_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL;
// LDH --> Added toughness perk from elrapido verson of ResetMaxHP
    if(IsCharacterPerkOn(chr, "Toughness"))
    {
        HP = HP * 1.1;            // 10% health bonus for the tough guys
        chr.chr_ai.hp_dlt = 0.2;    // higher regeneration rate, default is 0.1
    }
    chr.chr_ai.hp_max = HP;
// LDH <--
    LAi_SetHP(&chr, HP, HP);
    return HP;
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
DON'T rename the PLAYER settings to CHAR settings, because these defines are used in many other files as well and you'd need to change them all. It doesn't matter what the name is anyway, so just keep their current names and set PLAYER_HITPOINTS_PER_LEVEL to 1.

<!--quoteo(post=228733:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:31 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 30 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]228733[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i never use the bladedamage mod, i always turn it off, and so does nearly everyone else from what i've heard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->What I keep hearing is that people turn it off before ever trying it, thinking it is bound to be annoying. The only people I ever hear complaining about that mod are those who, as far as I know, never used it. Never heard any complaints about the blades actually breaking too often ingame from people who did play with the mod. At least not since my most recent rewrite and improvements on that mod a very long time ago, which I think addressed most of the major complaints about the mod: blades breaking too quickly and losing your blade completely when it breaks.

<!--quoteo(post=228733:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:31 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 30 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]228733[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->one thought i'm having here is making the blades not of a certain quality due to wear and tear, but of the overall skillp put into making it. for instance, you'd have poor, average, and excellent blades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That is certainly an option. We'd just need to rename "Worn" to "Poor" then. What about the "Broken" quality that has replaced "Badly worn" with the bladedamage mod enabled? If your own blade breaks, you keep the broken blade and you can still repair it. Also you can find broken blades lying around, but you can't properly use them until you repair them. You actually CAN fight with a broken blade as well, but they'll break very quickly after which you can no longer repair them; you'll have lost it. Doesn't this add some fun gameplay aspect when some old man gives you a very good, but broken blade, early in the game and you need to save the money to repair the thing or something lik that?

<!--quoteo(post=228733:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:31 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 30 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]228733[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->taking them to a blacksmith (could) improve their quality. i say could because you don't know if it's a good blacksmith or not. wasn't that what you suggested earlier?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I also like the idea of each blacksmith having his own specialty. Differentiating between things is always a good thing. Differentiating between blades, guns, ships, blacksmiths, etc. adds a lot of gameplay value in my opinion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=228783:date=Dec 30 2007, 06:04 PM:name=Captain Fitzpatrick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Captain Fitzpatrick @ Dec 30 2007, 06:04 PM) [snapback]228783[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is alot of artistic license in the game when it comes to swords and the in game pictures really don't give any clue as to the weapon itself, which accordng to you you've used computer game pictures to make your sword estimates, which is why I said I could have supplied information on the actual swords..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ron used the actual ingame 3D models for his values, not the interface pictures. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="no.gif" />
In any case: I think the two of you together should have all the knowledge we need for these kind of things. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

 

[Fitzy]

I'm sure Ron has the info without any input from me, I simply said that I could have supplied any info that he may not have had, but needed, not that his info was wrong or his estimates were wrong and Ya I meant the 3d models I should have been more specific, a 3d model is still a picture <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> .

Guns for example I have no clue about, except perhaps the SA-80 rifle and Beretta Pistol which were Brittish army issue when I served, of course these two weapons have nothing to do with pirates.

Theres alot of good idea's buried in this thread about possible tweeks updates for existing mods etc, having specific smiths is a good one as well, I would love to see it possible to get ships upgraded because alot of the time the style of ship I like usually comes with poor stats, in the stock game if I remember ships could have a reduced or increased cargo hold, crew size, as well as speed and turn rate but still look the same, having a store that a player could choose which of these upgrades if any would be a good thing imo.

The mod that causes weapons to deteriorate I don't use personally, so I can't comment if its good or bad, , I don't use it because at first I thought that the blade damage quality would change too quickly but as people have posted it's not a fast change, so I may start using it, After all it's something extra to spend the excessive amount of loot on, I'll just need to keep reminding myself to check out the swords that officers etc have.

I like Morgans idea as well about the quality of sword being related to its maker, this would reflect the many different people who would be making sowrds, obviously you would have different skills of smiths and their work would reflect this, possibly having only one "master smith" at a hard to find location or only available after a certain quest would again reduce the amount of high end weapons in the game.

It would be good to get all the idea's that people like into one cohesive post rather than having to keep digging through this one, I don't have time to do it just now but I may at a later date if no one else has by the time I get round to it.

 

[morgan terror]

maybe the smith's skill should be indicated a bit in the gossip with the town citizens. for instance, some guy says the smith did an excellent job at fixing his shovel. that doesn't mean he's good at fixing swords though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

i've only used the bladedamage mod for a short time. the thing was that it was a bit better for my nerves to leave it off.

 

[Fitzy]

<!--quoteo(post=229076:date=Dec 30 2007, 07:35 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 30 2007, 07:35 PM) [snapback]229076[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i've only used the bladedamage mod for a short time. the thing was that it was a bit better for my nerves to leave it off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Knowing my luck the only time my sword would break is in the middle of a huge battle <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

[morgan terror]

that's generally the point where it snaps, yes.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

<!--quoteo(post=229065:date=Dec 30 2007, 08:13 PM:name=Captain Fitzpatrick)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Captain Fitzpatrick @ Dec 30 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]229065[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The mod that causes weapons to deteriorate I don't use personally, so I can't comment if its good or bad, , I don't use it because at first I thought that the blade damage quality would change too quickly but as people have posted it's not a fast change, so I may start using it, After all it's something extra to spend the excessive amount of loot on, I'll just need to keep reminding myself to check out the swords that officers etc have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The thing I am more worried about is that your own blade won't break at all even during a long time in the game, because I have heard so little complaints about the mod from players. Of course it takes between 100 and 200 times of blocking and being blocked before your blade decreases one quality level. That is a fair few big boardings, I think! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
And only worn blades can break. Other blades will decrease one quality level first. SO if you make sure your officers keep their blades in Good state, they will not break.

<!--quoteo(post=229076:date=Dec 30 2007, 08:35 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Dec 30 2007, 08:35 PM) [snapback]229076[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i've only used the bladedamage mod for a short time. the thing was that it was a bit better for my nerves to leave it off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Was that before or after my rewrite?
Also: When your blade does break, press Quick-Equip [F] to grab another weapon quickly. You can repair your broken blade at a blacksmith.

 

[morgan terror]

i used it in build 13 update 3, the one i use now.