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Mods and Game Difficulty

<!--quoteo(post=230174:date=Jan 2 2008, 02:52 AM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Jan 2 2008, 02:52 AM) [snapback]230174[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How the devil should we know? Throw something together. If one seems like it's too early or late, we'll change it later. Just make them different from country to country.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ok; I'll come up with something. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=230174:date=Jan 2 2008, 02:52 AM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Jan 2 2008, 02:52 AM) [snapback]230174[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the pirate blade, there needs to be some quest or objective built around it. Say, if you commit acts of piracy until your relations with the pirates are up to zero, you can visit the pirate lord on QC and get the blade and the equivalent of the LM from the pirates. (They say that you are admitted into the brotherhood of corsairs or something.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah; we will need to come up with something for that. Perhaps when you join the pirates by talking to Isenbrandt Jurcksen? It takes a while before you can do that though. And if you start as a pirate, you can't join them again and you wouldn't be able to get the blade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=230444:date=Jan 2 2008, 02:52 PM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thomas the Terror @ Jan 2 2008, 02:52 PM) [snapback]230444[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->they took Vanderdecken's Vanderdecken model (whole mouth full).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Either that or Vanderdecken based his Vanderdecken model on their work. Not such which is true. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=230480:date=Jan 2 2008, 04:18 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Jan 2 2008, 04:18 PM) [snapback]230480[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i don't know about that. as thomas and i said, they've used content from our mods too, so they knew that it was around, and that was already quite some time ago. they really did know we where here, as some of use have had contact with them for a long time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->AlexusB certainly knew about our mod; we have permission from him to use their SLiB mod content. However, this permission does not apply to other Russian mods and especially not to the Russian-only commercial game releases made by seaward.ru, which is the same team that originally made the SLiB mod. I think we actually DO have some of that content right now that Maximus put in, so perhaps we ought to remove that again; it's just a couple of the City of Abandoned Ships' character models anyway. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=230480:date=Jan 2 2008, 04:18 PM:name=Morgan Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Morgan Terror @ Jan 2 2008, 04:18 PM) [snapback]230480[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm not sure, but i think we have some members over here like maximus (which aren't online recently though) who regularily visit those forums and CAN speak russian. they would have told us if they russians didn't like us suing their content.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Maximus always has trouble with his internet connection, so he doesn't visit any forums frequently. But he does continue modding and upload files to the FTP every now and then.
 
<!--quoteo(post=230956:date=Jan 3 2008, 06:39 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Jan 3 2008, 06:39 AM) [snapback]230956[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=230174:date=Jan 2 2008, 02:52 AM:name=Ron Losey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ron Losey @ Jan 2 2008, 02:52 AM) [snapback]230174[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the pirate blade, there needs to be some quest or objective built around it. Say, if you commit acts of piracy until your relations with the pirates are up to zero, you can visit the pirate lord on QC and get the blade and the equivalent of the LM from the pirates. (They say that you are admitted into the brotherhood of corsairs or something.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah; we will need to come up with something for that. Perhaps when you join the pirates by talking to Isenbrandt Jurcksen? It takes a while before you can do that though. And if you start as a pirate, you can't join them again and you wouldn't be able to get the blade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Talking of this... If we could make a difference between being a free pirate and being a member of a Pirate brotherhood, that would be much better. That was something great in Seadogs.
Why the Pirate chief would give you a sword by the way? We shouldn't make so that Pirates look like any other nations. Rules should be really different for them.
 
Agreed. The pirate "nation" should be expanded and improved so that you can actually join the brotherhood and there is some useful gameplay value in there.
Any other ideas on how to get the "pirate only" blade?
 
Members of "secret brotherhoods" and such always make a big deal of having matching rings or swords or something. Same way modern gangs have "colors" or official tattoos.

A sword with a hilt marked specifically to their brotherhood would be perfect for that function. And since the chosen blade is a cutlass-looking thing with a hilt apparently carved reminiscent of the dragon on a viking long ship, it adds up ... nobody but a gang of cutthroats would deliberately design anything like that.
 
This is what code I have on the presentation blades for now. The blades are always handed out on level 4 (captain) and level 8 (knight) and are all, for now, all of average quality. Perhaps they should be fine, good or excellent instead. And perhaps there ought to be some additional differences per nation in both the level at which the blades are awarded and the quality of the blades. I have so far not tested if this code actually works. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->void GivePromotionReward()
{
    ref pchar = GetMainCharacter();
    switch(GetCurrentLocationNation())
    {
        case ENGLAND:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // Midshipman
                    if(pchar.model == "cnorrington")        pchar.model = "Mdnorrington";
                break;
                case 2: // Lieutenant
                    if(pchar.model == "depp")                pchar.model = "47_Ltsparrow";
                    if(pchar.model == "Mdnorrington")        pchar.model = "Ltnorrington";
                //    if(pchar.model == "blaze")                pchar.model = "47_Blaze_brtlt";
                break;
                case 3: // Commander
                break;
                case 4: // Captain
                    if(pchar.model == "47_Ltsparrow")        pchar.model = "47_Cptsparrow";
                    if(pchar.model == "Ltnorrington")        pchar.model = "cnorrington";
                //    if(pchar.model == "47_Blaze_brtlt")        pchar.model = "47_Blaze_brtcpt";
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade24"); // English Officer's Saber
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade24");
                break;
                case 5: // Commodore
                    if(pchar.model == "47_Cptsparrow")        pchar.model = "47_Cosparrow";
                    if(pchar.model == "cnorrington")        pchar.model = "Conorrington";
                //    if(pchar.model == "47_Blaze_brtcpt")    pchar.model = "47_Blaze_brtco";
                break;
                case 6: // Vice-Admiral
                break;
                case 7: // Admiral
                break;
                case 8: // Knight
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade22"); // Corsair's Pride
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade22");
                break;
                case 9: // Baron
                break;
                case 10: // Viscount
                break;
                case 11: // Earl
                break;
                case 12: // Marquess
                break;
            }
        break;
        case HOLLAND:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // 2e Luitenant
                break;
                case 2: // Luitenant ter zee
                break;
                case 3: // Kapitein-Luitenant
                break;
                case 4: // Kapitein ter zee
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade23"); // Dutch Admiralty Sword
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade23");
                break;
                case 5: // Commandeur
                break;
                case 6: // Schout-bij-nacht
                break;
                case 7: // Vice-Admiraal
                break;
                case 8: // Ridder
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade26"); // Solingen Rapier
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade26");
                break;
                case 9: // Baron
                break;
                case 10: // Graaf
                break;
                case 11: // Markgraaf
                break;
                case 12: // Markies
                break;
            }
        break;
        case FRANCE:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // Enseigne
                break;
                case 2: // Lieutenant
                break;
                case 3: // Cpt. de Fregate
                break;
                case 4: // Cpt. de Vaisseau
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade9"); // French Admiralty Rapier
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade9");
                break;
                case 5: // Contre-Amirale
                break;
                case 6: // Vice-Amirale
                break;
                case 7: // Amirale
                break;
                case 8: // Chevalier
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade25"); // French Nobility Sword
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade25");
                break;
                case 9: // Baron
                break;
                case 10: // Viscomte
                break;
                case 11: // Comte
                break;
                case 12: // Marquis
                break;
        break;
        case SPAIN:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // Teniente
                break;
                case 2: // Cpt. de corbeta
                break;
                case 3: // Cpt. de fragata
                break;
                case 4: // Cpt. de navio
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade33"); // Moorish Saber
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade33");
                break;
                case 5: // Contralmirante
                break;
                case 6: // Vicealmirante
                break;
                case 7: // Almirante
                break;
                case 8: // Caballero
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade14"); // Spanish Nobility Longsword
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade14");
                break;
                case 9: // Baron
                break;
                case 10: // Vizconde
                break;
                case 11: // Conde
                break;
                case 12: // Marques
                break;
        break;
        case PORTUGAL:
            switch(GetRank(pchar, GetCurrentLocationNation()))
            {
                case 1: // Seg.-Tenente
                break;
                case 2: // Prim.-Tenente
                break;
                case 3: // Cpt. de Fragata
                break;
                case 4: // Cpt. de Mar
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade29"); // Portugese Officer's Sword
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade29");
                break;
                case 5: // Contra-Almirante
                break;
                case 6: // Vice-Almirante
                break;
                case 7: // Almirante
                break;
                case 8: // Cavaleiro
                    GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade32"); // Damascus Shamshir
                    EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade32");
                break;
                case 9: // Barao
                break;
                case 10: // Vizconde
                break;
                case 11: // Conde
                break;
                case 12: // Marques
                break;
        break;
        case PIRATE: // UNUSED: Just to remind us to use the pirate unique saber somewhere
            GiveItem2Character(pchar,"blade34"); // Dragon's Head
            EquipCharacterByItem(pchar,"blade34");
        break;
    }
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
 
If this has the effect I'm thinking it will, the entire blade quality thing will become either redundant or pointless (except for the people who just love the blade-break thing) and should probably be turned off by default.

Otherwise, presentation blades should always start out in "fine/excellent" condition. It would make no sense at all to present somebody with a thoroughly beat up sword.

We'll work out the differences between nations later too. That's minor. The big issue is rebalancing the combat.

I'll try to get some numbers for the guns ASAP. I keep getting side-tracked.
 
the blades should be above average, i think. not sure what quality exactly, but above average. it seems a bit odd to me that the first thing you do after you get a blade like that is taking it to the blacksmith to improve it even more.
 
Try these numbers on the guns:

<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol1", "pistol1",         6,  1, 0.50,   1,   150, 20.0, 40.0,  30, 1,  24, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_big.wav", "pb");         // Short Pistol
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol2", "pistol2",         6,  2, 0.50,   3,   200, 30.0, 55.0,  50, 1, 35, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_medium.wav", "pb");     // Long Pistol
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol3", "pistol3",         6,  3, 0.37,   5,   400, 40.0, 90.0,  20, 1, 35, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_grape.wav", "pg");     // Grapeshot Pistol
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol5", "pistol5",         6,  5, 0.10,   7,   750, 50.0, 80.0,  70, 1, 45, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_big.wav", "pb");         // Scrapper Pistol
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol6", "pistol6",         6,  6, 0.05,   8,  1000, 35.0, 55.0,  60, 2, 50, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_medium.wav", "pb");     // Double-Shot Pistol
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol4", "pistol4",         6,  4, 0.05,  10,  1000, 25.0, 45.0,  50, 4, 60, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_small.wav", "pb");     // Quad-Shot Pistol
        // Alan Smithee's new weapons -->
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol7", "pistol7",         9,  1, 0.20,   4,   350, 20.0, 40.0,  35, 3, 65, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_small.wav", "pb");     // Brace of Small Pistols
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol8", "pistol8",         9,  3, 0.15,   8,   750, 30.0, 50.0,  50, 3, 90, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_medium.wav", "pb");     // Brace of Mid-size Pistols
        n = InitStdGun(n,"pistol9", "pistol9",         9,  2, 0.10,  12,  1200, 45.0, 80.0,  60, 2, 70, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_big.wav", "pb");         // Brace of Large Pistols<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->


<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->    n = InitStdGun(n,"pistolmtoon", "musketoon",  11,  1, 0.08,  12,  1600, 50.0, 80.0,  60, 1, 74, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_mtoon.wav", "pg2"); // Musketoon
    n = InitStdGun(n,"pistolmket",     "musket",     11,  2, 0.05,  14,  2000, 50.0, 100.0,  80, 1, 90, "", "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_musket.wav", "mb"); // Musket<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->


I reduced the prices by a factor of 10, to go with the new blade prices. Lowered minimum damage considerably (you could just get grazed ... not every hit is solid). Increased reload times such that, even with the gunman abilities and high melee numbers, you should not be able to reload faster than was realistically possible.

Going with one HP per level gained, these numbers should make firearms more or less historically accurate (references: NATO study on combat bullet wounding 1960's; "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness", United States F.B.I. 1989; United States Army field manual "Treatment of Wound Trauma"; among others). Higher level characters should be more able to take a bullet wound and keep fighting, not because they are less wounded, but because they have a higher resistance to pain and shock and are less likely to collapse, even when in bad shape ... which is reasonable.

The longer reload times should eliminate the need for the ammo mod, because nobody is going to spend that much time standing around reloading. Also should help balance the issue of certain weapons (i.e. muskets) being overpowering... i.e. that is offset by only getting one shot, and being a pain to stop and pack powder down the fool thing.

You'll have to add back in the multiple target damage flag for the grapeshot pistol ... I don't know where it goes.

Also, hopefully the 14A6 bug of weapons starting out unloaded in every scene will be fixed. Otherwise, the firearms will be quite useless.
 
Thanks Ron. I put that into my game now. I think the unloading on every scene bug already is fixed here, so that's nothing to worry about. Also the multiple damage flag for the grapeshot pistol is still there. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
Question: Do you also have different values for the blunderbuss?
 
Oops ... forgot about the blunderbuss. Use the same stats as the musketoon for now, but with the multiple damage flag on.

Also, get rid of that "the blunderbuss might blow up" thing. That's absurd ... it would probably be less likely to split a barrel than the ones that fired a single projectile. The fact that you can clip your own guys is bad enough.
 
Ok; done. I want to keep that selfdamage thing though; it's funny and I want to have it used somewhere... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
The place to put the self-damage thing would be on the grenades. Black-powder grenades were known for bad fuses (not wrapped tight enough), that would suddenly burn much too quickly and go off before they could be thrown, or in mid-flight.

Speaking of which, hand grenades (i.e. big round black bombs) were a standard supply for marines. A person should be able to buy them cheaply and in bulk. How badly you want to use them ... that's another story. Even if they don't accidentally go off on top of you, trying not to frag your own men could be an issue.

(That actually being the military use of the term "frag" - to wound by shrapnel, i.e. grenade fragments.)
 
Now THERE's an interesting thought! Putting the self-damage on the grenades should be really easy because the grenades are a "gun" as well code-wise. As for them being readily available: We could do that, of course. Should there be some sort of limit on it though? Minlevel of some kind? Or only have them available to navy personel or something?
 
i agree on all the above, except for one thing:

muskets should still be very powerful relative to hp. a musket ball in reality could shoot your arm off. there are several accounts of it happening. however, minimum damage should of course be low, like on all firearms like you suggested. even on grenades, the minimum damage would simply be the fact that the thing hit the enemy in his stomach and didn't explode.

just on a sidenote, guns did explode sometimes. for example, fireing in a large regiment all at once would be very noisy. sometimes, the powder outside the barrel would ignite, but the powder cartridge inside the barrel wouldn't. however, because of the noise, the soldier wouldn't hear that it didn't ignite. he'd reload his firearm, thus having a double load of powder, and a very high risk of the gun exploding when fired. in fact, if the first cartridge was simply of bad quality, a third or even fourth load could be accidentally inserted. one report accounts of a man who had no less than NINE loads in his musket! when the charge finally ignited, the gun amazingly didn't explode, but flew backwards off his shoulder, straight into the head of the person behind him.
 
In that case how about we add a 1% chance to ALL guns for exploding? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" />
 
and an increased chance for grenades, of course. and it might be better to except throwing knives, ether bottles and stinkpots from the rule.
 
1% chance of gun failure would be very high. If 1 shot in 10,000 actually caused a weapon to explode, the damage to military units would be monumental. (You split a musket barrel and the resulting hail of fragments is going to take out everybody within 10 feet of it.)

Also, only a complete, utter, profound, give-monkeys-a-bad-name IDIOT would pack multiple loads into a weapon.... after you fire, you blow through the barrel to remove any burning embers before you start to reload. If you don't, there's a fair chance that you will be pouring powder directly into a fire, in which case you will die. Obviously, if you can't blow through it, there's something still in there, so you run the ramrod down it and you will immediately find that it is still loaded. Any moron who does not follow this procedure would probably be holding the weapon backwards and shoot himself or the guy behind him anyway.

(Darwin Award for the robber whose recently stolen .45 pistol misfired during a holdup, so he looked down the barrel to see what was wrong.) <a href="http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-08.html" target="_blank">http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-08.html</a>

As for power of a musket ball, there are still black-powder deer hunting seasons where I grew up ... I've seen a LOT of stuff hit with round ball from percussion-cap black powder rifles. You won't ever see the kind of hydrostatic shock damage you get from modern rifle bullets. If one of those things "took off an arm", it was because the ball shattered the bone and the arm had to be amputated. (My dad's old .54 cal. is about the meanest thing I've ever seen in a black powder weapon - twice the knock-down of anything the British army ever issued - and you couldn't completely remove a human limb with it, even if you set up the shot.)

Grapeshot from cannon would take off limbs... but those were like 20mm ball. Anything smaller, you're probably talking about an injury that would test the skill of a surgeon, but expecting it to be immediately debilitating is probably Hollywood more than history.

I advise anyone wondering about how guns really work to read this document:

"Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness", U.S. FBI Firearms Training Academy, 1989.

<a href="http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm" target="_blank">http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm</a>


It sums up a lot of the myths and Hollywood that has been getting law enforcement personnel killed in recent years. However, most of their conclusions about modern handguns also apply to round-ball black powder rifles, and even more so to smoothbore muskets.
 
well, the incident happened during the american revolution. the general himself said that 'his men could not hit a barnyard even if they where standing in it'. it's quite possible that things like this happened, because they where hardly trained. anyway, i trust your experience with firearms.
 
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