Solved Fixing the Build Mod Ships

[Armada]

The real HMS Victory DOES make an appearance in the Hornblower series, but not until well later after the movies have concluded.
It's in the books and if I recall the old (and VERY good) "Captain Horatio Hornblower" movie too.

I take it the game's quest hasn't quite got that far, yet? Oh well... she's ready and waiting for whenever the time may come...

I'm not going to suggest any modelers to make MORE Royal Navy ships; if I have a choice, I choose for no more British ships and more other ones.

Agreed, at least not until we have a level playing field for each navy. That may take a while, though. Portugal has some major catching up to do on the custom ships front!

Isn't Mordaunt1 supposed to be the HSM Mordaunt? Maybe she should have a Royal Navy colour scheme to go with that? And maybe she would then be available for some Hornblower use?

I think you asked about a RN colour scheme before. See, here's the catch:

[from Wikipedia]
She had been privately built, and was purchased into the navy in 1683.

Note: 1683. That's not only WAY before the events of Hornblower, but I think she also pre-dates the black-and-yellow colour scheme.
It was a good idea, until history gave you a kick up the backside.

EDIT: Actually, new idea: you said yourself that the Indy is meant to be frigate-like...
So, here's a photo I found of the real Indy, after she was razéed to a 2-decker: link
Now, doesn't that look oddly similar to the HMS_Surprise model, in both gun capacity and shape?
Therefore, I propose two options:
a) We base the Indy on the Grand Turk, and renovate a warship model, or;
b) We base her on the historical ship, and simply repaint HMS_Surprise.
The latter way might just be better, if we want a higher detail model. What do you think?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Wow, you two are chattering away.

About lightbrig1: I was working on the bowsprit trying to get ropes to those sails. Their locators are all named sail1. Renaming them and their fal's did not work. I will try again later.

What purpose do the Cutters serve? I see them as escorts for larger ships. Their job is to shoot my ship full of holes, slowing it down so the big one can catch and board me. :ixi Early on that is certain death. They are so fast and maneuverable that they can literally sail circles around my ship while I'm making my best speed. But that's what I get for sailing cargo ships instead of warships.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I take it the game's quest hasn't quite got that far, yet? Oh well... she's ready and waiting for whenever the time may come...

She doesn't make much more than a cameo appearance though.

I think you asked about a RN colour scheme before. See, here's the catch:

[from Wikipedia]
She had been privately built, and was purchased into the navy in 1683.

Note: 1683. That's not only WAY before the events of Hornblower, but I think she also pre-dates the black-and-yellow colour scheme.
It was a good idea, until history gave you a kick up the backside.

LOL! That's what I get for not having much of a clue on any of that stuff.

EDIT: Actually, new idea: you said yourself that the Indy is meant to be frigate-like...
So, here's a photo I found of the real Indy, after she was razéed to a 2-decker: link
Now, doesn't that look oddly similar to the HMS_Surprise model, in both gun capacity and shape?
Therefore, I propose two options:
a) We base the Indy on the Grand Turk, and renovate a warship model, or;
b) We base her on the historical ship, and simply repaint HMS_Surprise.
The latter way might just be better, if we want a higher detail model. What do you think?

B works for me. Why is a repaint necessary?
In any case, the Hornblower books aren't very particular about what the HMS Indefatigable looks like, except that she's a frigate.
According to this site, she had 44 guns: http://www.scaryfangirl.com/ships.htm
But as far as I'm concerned, any frigate would do. The storyline isn't overly accurate to the movies OR the books anyway, so some artistic license can do no harm.

 

[Armada]

I can't see anything wrong with Lightbrig1's locators, besides the fal's, so there's nothing unusual which might affect converting from fal to rope.
What do you mean they're all named sail1? I only see three of those, plus three sail2 and sail3's. That's how they should be.

So cutters serve as nasty pests for merchant ships, I guess? : At least they force you to stay on your toes, and that can only be a good thing.

That happened to me the other day, when I encountered two pirate HMS_Surprises (as I had that ship, when the loading screen played up), and I decided to take them on anyway to practise my naval combat.
Of course, it was only half-way through the battle that I realised I was still stuck with the default 4-pounders, so it took ages to deal any damage.
Still, I pulled it out of the bag somehow, and de-masted one of the ships, boarded and sank it, and the other one ran off. I had lost my mainmast, too, so that made outmanoeuvring the nearest ship even more difficult.
It was a nice reminder of how intense some of the naval battles can really be in this game!

EDIT:
@Pieter- I think a repaint is necessary because, well, the HMS_Surprise resembles... HMS Surprise, and not the Indy.
It won't take a huge amount of work, but just enough to make her more like the one I posted a link to would suffice.
Do we want a nameplate, too, considering the ship's major quest role?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I found the problem with lightbrig1! :mi It was never finished....... I am adding new locators now. :j1




2 hours later........... Done. What a mess. :j3 There are a bunch of locators without counterparts scattered around that ship. Is it possible to erase locators?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It's indeed possible to erase locators. Just select the line in the TOOL and press "delete". Or if you usually work with the locators in a text file, just remove the line with the locator you want removed.

I suppose if we ARE going to have a repainted Surprise anyway, putting a nameplate on her would be quite welcome. Especially if it can be added on her stern.
Currently she's a unique quest ship anyway. And we could even use one of the slightly different Surprise versions and keep another version of the model if that makes sense.

 

[Armada]

I suppose if we ARE going to have a repainted Surprise anyway, putting a nameplate on her would be quite welcome. Especially if it can be added on her stern.

Actually, I've just noticed a problem there. The texture file only shows half of the stern, so I assume that is mirrored on the model to form the whole thing.
That would render a nameplate useless, unless you use certain palindromic names. For example, 'Hannah' would work, in capital letters, but 'Indefatigable' certainly wouldn't.

Currently she's a unique quest ship anyway. And we could even use one of the slightly different Surprise versions and keep another version of the model if that makes sense.

I don't think she's a unique quest ship. HMS_Surprise can be encountered at random, too.
Um... what's your second point meant to mean? :?
HMS_Surprise is the best match, because all other Surprise models have too few guns and/or look too much like the Surprise herself.

 

[Armada]

OK gents, assuming that we're likely to go ahead with replacing the Indefatigable, I've already reworked the HMS_Surprise texture (or textures, as it seems)!
See what you think:



It's loosely based on the model photos I found, so that it looks like the Indy, while remaining as a 'generic' RN frigate for normal use. As suspected, no nameplate was possible.
I think all this ship is missing cosmetically is a couple of lifeboats, and she's good to go. However, she actually needs a new walk path and fixed crew walk file.
The walk path is not accurate enough, since you can walk right through most details on deck, and the crew walk file is a bit all over the place. :wacko:

 

[Hylie Pistof]

It looks like the simplest solution is the bestest solution. You have already mentioned lifeboats, so all I can say is it still has the wanky spanker. )

Having a frigate represent a frigate is waay better than having a pinnace represent a frigate. :2up

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Actually, I've just noticed a problem there. The texture file only shows half of the stern, so I assume that is mirrored on the model to form the whole thing.
That would render a nameplate useless, unless you use certain palindromic names. For example, 'Hannah' would work, in capital letters, but 'Indefatigable' certainly wouldn't.

We'll just rename her HMS Hannah.

Is there any other Surprise versions with a nameplate that could be used? Could we ask a modeler to add one? Wouldn't be necessary, but if it's possible...

I don't think she's a unique quest ship. HMS_Surprise can be encountered at random, too.

HMS Surprise doesn't have her name textured onto her and the current Indy does. That's why she's a non-encounterable and non-buyable quest ship at the moment.

Um... what's your second point meant to mean? :?
HMS_Surprise is the best match, because all other Surprise models have too few guns and/or look too much like the Surprise herself.

HMS_Surprise is the current version of the Surprise, right? I'm completely losing track of how many different versions we've got.
In any case, she's not the Pgargon modified ship or the film version, right? What if we'd use Pgargon's version for the Boussole then and the film version as HMS_Surprise? That way there'd be no doubles of the models.
(No idea if there's any value to the above suggestions; just random thoughts. )

Would it be possible to add those blue spots to your Indy like on the photo you showed me? That would make her immediately and obviously look different from the HMS Surprise.
At the moment, I can't quite see the difference, but I'll admit to very much not be overly familiar with the models. :?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Sorry to interrupt gentlemen, but I have run across something and could use some help. The light pinnace has some ropes that just end in mid air. I attempted to repair them but got the "model could not be read" message with mast 1,2,& 3 in TOOL. Is there some way around this?

 

[Armada]

so all I can say is it still has the wanky spanker. )

Er... right... Well, I can replace it with a better one if need be.
I was also considering upgrading the rigging, so that it uses four sails per mast, just like the wooden model I found. Might make her stand out from the Surprise related models a bit more.

Having a frigate represent a frigate is waay better than having a pinnace represent a frigate. :2up

Agreed! I still wonder to this day why a pinnace was chosen for that ship. Admittedly, that alone put me off playing the storyline much.

Is there any other Surprise versions with a nameplate that could be used? Could we ask a modeler to add one?

None of them have nameplates.
Jack Harrison's second attempt at the Surprise (the one before his current version, but after his beeping Surprise1) did have a nameplate originally modelled on, but I think it was removed.
We could ask a modeller to make one... but I feel really bad about this kind of thing lately.
Our modellers are few and far between, have loads of projects on the go, and yet we're always finding new things to ask them to do. Seems a bit unfair on them, to me. :?

HMS Surprise doesn't have her name textured onto her and the current Indy does. That's why she's a non-encounterable and non-buyable quest ship at the moment.

Ah, I originally thought you were on about the Surprise, not the Indy. Seems I misunderstood you.

HMS_Surprise is the current version of the Surprise, right? I'm completely losing track of how many different versions we've got.
In any case, she's not the Pgargon modified ship or the film version, right? What if we'd use Pgargon's version for the Boussole then and the film version as HMS_Surprise?

Now you're contradicting your own ideas. First you said we should keep the Boussole as-is, now you want her replaced?
Yet, I also said that we shouldn't change her, because accurately re-texturing Surprise1 for the Boussole's paint scheme would be very difficult, given the difference in texture mapping.
So, to clarify:

• Jack Harrison's film version, when finished, will be the 'real' HMS Surprise for the M&C storyline.
• La Boussole should remain as she is (but I've recently fixed her texture to make the stern windows show up as glass, not black planking)
• As for Surprise1, I think her value is just to be a generic small frigate, perhaps with French and US repaints?
• And finally HMS_Surprise should be used as the Indy (and probably could do with being renamed, so that we don't need to alter the Hornblower quest code.)

Would it be possible to add those blue spots to your Indy like on the photo you showed me? That would make her immediately and obviously look different from the HMS Surprise.
At the moment, I can't quite see the difference, but I'll admit to very much not be overly familiar with the models. :?

Could I add them? Yes, probably.
Will I add them? Well, I'd rather not give myself a headache over figuring out where they should be added on the textures. Figuring out what I have so far was hard enough.
To give you an idea of what I have changed, please look at the unmodified HMS_Surprise model in GM Viewer. I had to change eight different textures to get the desired effect.

The light pinnace has some ropes that just end in mid air. I attempted to repair them but got the "model could not be read" message with mast 1,2,& 3 in TOOL. Is there some way around this?

I can't think of anything off the top of my head. The un-readable model problem creates too many barriers.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All sounds good to me.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I'm still sailing the light pinnace and have decided to take a shot at fixing those ropes. Could some kind soul with AOP please post the masts for these ships so I could try to repair them? They are listed in the cleanup list as class 4 "keep" ships, so we might as well make them as pretty as we can.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What do you need the masts for? They're already in the game, right? :wacko:

 

[Armada]

Going by what he said before, the masts in PotC cannot be read in TOOL, but perhaps the original AOP ones can be.

Miklkit, can you post a screenshot of the problem?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Yes, it's the old "model could not be read" problem not allowing me to fix it. With this ship it is just the masts unlike the fastgalleons where it is the main GM. Actually all that is needed is mast2 and only 2 locators need to be moved. You can see it in GMViewer too.

 

[Armada]

Just two ropes? That's even more frustrating then.
It looks like the problem is on mast3. However, the other ends are attached to a rey model, right?
Perhaps removing those ends would suffice. That will cause rope errors, but no ropes are better than misaligned ropes.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Just two ropes? That is hours of work for me. Is this ship in COAS? I have that game but never installed it.

Last night I got the wallerpinnace, heavylineship1, Sevenprovincien or whatever it is called. Anyhoo it's a big honkin' pinnace with beautiful sails that would look great on the smaller pinnaces. :d: So far all I have done with it is remove some fal's and in the process added two ropes. That took almost 2 hours. Why was so much work left not done?

 

[Armada]

Just two ropes? That is hours of work for me.

Let's see if we can't reduce it to about 2 minutes then, shall we? I've found the offending ropes for you.
Open 'LightPinnace1_rey_b2' in TOOL. Open the locators window, and delete 'ropeb24' and 'ropeb25'. Apply changes, Save GM. In theory, that's job done.

So far all I have done with it is remove some fal's and in the process added two ropes. That took almost 2 hours. Why was so much work left not done?

Why was so much work not finished? I don't know, but I can only assume it was due to rush-jobs or laziness.
It does take some serious dedication to go through with large rigging changes, because locator work can quickly become overwhelming for the impatient.
At least with people like yourself scrutinising many ships, no-one will have an excuse for cutting corners ever again!