Build 14 Beta 1

[Hylie Pistof]

:gday

Wot? That should not be possible. Do you mean that you can scroll through the whole ship lineup? In "options" do you have it set so that you can buy any ship or is it restricted to your skill level?



Morgan Terror: I am sailing a European Bark and it wants to turn sideways to the wind so that you have to use sails to steer it around so it won't capsize. So there is more damage than usual. In one voyage I got caught in two storms and the damage was bad enough that if I had been caught in a 3rd storm, and they come on fast, I might not have survived. The sails were used up enough in the 2nd one that it was hard to keep it from wandering.


I was sailing from Grenada to Bonaire and everything was fine until approaching Bonaire. I started getting GA. There were no battles or damaged ships, so I was mystified until I came around the corner into the harbor and there sat a sloop and a lugger. The sloop was fine but the flags were messed up on the lugger. We fixed those things! I checked the luggers in TOOL and looked at the shipsinit.c and could find nothing wrong.


Note: I'm used to getting 262 XP per hour sailing in direct sail at normal time speed. It now appears to be 114 XP per hour. Is this the proper amount of reduction?

So. After installing Patch 7-2 WIP I renamed the "ships" and "shipsinit.c" then copied the ones from a patch 6 install over so I could continue working on ships in this new install. Would there be any reason to think that this would cause a conflict elsewhere in patch 7-2 WIP?

 

[Sulan]

This new economy has me all messed up. It will take some time to get used to it, but things are calming down. I just got a mission that only gives me 8,500 gold. That is more like it. I was afraid I would get too rich too fast.

The storms are hard now! I capsized in the first one. No longer can you furl the sails and ride it out. You have to actively sail it and take damage.

Sulan: The changes I make can't be done in options, so I made them in defaultcontrols. Everything is fine now.

Well - I didn't touch the missions so far - so you should not see any changes there, yet. Going for the monetary rewards for missions will be one of my next tasks. So far I did only:

- increase goods prices, so they are more compatible with the items prices
- reduce items prices (only works completely with the bugfix posted above - press F11 after applying)
- implement random events which influence town economy (town gold, growth, soldiers, population etc.), the town economy has influence on the merchant's goods and prices

Maybe the increased goods prices are reflected in the trade missions (higher good's price = higher risk = higher reward), but I'll look into that one.

 

[morgan terror]

eh... maybe i'll just post another topic to get those skill ratio questions answered. it would be relevant to the one i want to make tomorrow anyway.

access to the modding section would help, yes. i will try to poke around with restraint though, since my knowledge of actual coding is rather limited. ^_^ some insight into BB's thoughts could ease things up in any case.

does anyone know if sailing skill affects ship damage in storms? indirectly it does, due to poor wind angles (as i understand it), but is direct damage related too?

 

[rs77]

:gday

Wot? That should not be possible. Do you mean that you can scroll through the whole ship lineup? In "options" do you have it set so that you can buy any ship or is it restricted to your skill level?

Yep, that's exactly what happens, I can scroll through the whole ship lineup and 'repaint' my ship even to 1st rates. It is possible in other shipyards also.
I didn't change this option regarding buying ships.

It wasn't possible before I installed patch 7 - 2 and additional patch to patch posted in this thread.

PS. I just realized that Pieter already answered this:

AH! I forgot to turn the cheatmode off in the files I uploaded, that's why that happens.
That's a new feature of the cheatmode that I like to use for testing purposes.
Just turn it off at the bottom of PROGRAM\InternalSettingd.h

it's kinda cool anyway

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The storms are hard now! I capsized in the first one. No longer can you furl the sails and ride it out. You have to actively sail it and take damage.

Are you getting any uncontrollable spinning anymore?

Yes I am! The storms seem to come in pairs and I can't seem to dodge them. In the last storm of this last pair the ship ( European Bark with all of the upgrades except brass cannon and flushing) was spinning first this way then that way. It tossed cargo twice and crew once. When the storm finally ended it was in a hard fast spin to the right. I'm currently at sailing skill 4 and captain class 6.

 

[Baste]

I don't completely understand what Black Bart and Morgan Terror were talking about, so don't know what to say about it, but...

There's a hidden modding category? Isn't that somewhat redundant? I mean, we can post and discuss mods in some of the other categories, can't we? There might be a good reason for such a category that I haven't thought of, though. :?

 

[Black Bart]

I guess it's to stop 'kiddies' spamming it with "hey the game i torrented crashes, can you help me!" type stuff And i didn't realise Morgan didn't have acces to that forum, which explains why he might appear to 'go off' on changes that he hasn't been able to follow

The code fix Pieter and I worked out for fixing the spin left bug doesn't work 100% of the time, however you do at least have some control of your ship, which was an improvement on where this bug was before. I've gone back to the previous code that i first tested(the one you thought wouldn't make sense Pieter, i'll dig it up later) as this 'played' better i think, and i'm not sure i managed to get a spin-bug using it but it needs more testing so is in my game currently and i'll report back on that.

In terms of the general overall scaling of prices in initItems.c, i'm currently going through the process of merging my tested values into the new initItems.c format. It's amazing what a few tabs here and there can do to improve the formatting and readability isn't it!(I was 'scared' to add more '-----' in the headers for all the weapon/item details just in case it messed up stuff!), so good job on making this whole file look cleaner, either Pieter of Sulan, whomever did it

I'm going to start work on an excel file for all the weapons and items, like we have for the ships. This will help efforts to balance things and make it easier for future tweaks and changes etc.

I have noticed a couple of things going through the new file(for initItems.c) that may be an issue, i'll see if i can find the exact nature of my concern - a few lines of missing code about the WeaponsMod != 1 something like that? And Jack Sparrows sword didn't get any loving in terms of neat formatting, so i've done that. But yeah i'll have to take more time in the game to see how all the new stuff gells and works together before being able to comment much on the details. I guess we all got lots of playtesting to do

Note: I'm used to getting 262 XP per hour sailing in direct sail at normal time speed. It now appears to be 114 XP per hour. Is this the proper amount of reduction?

maybe? I didn't give Pieter any of my files for this so it might have been 'worked out' from the posts i made on the subject in the tweaks and balancing thread? But yeah it was about a 50% decrease in xp, although where you say you get 262XP, my 'crew'(myself and active officers) were getting 1025 or 512XP(see the screenshots before and after in that thread). I guess you are using the 'rpg' char improvement system? If so XP only effects your char level and perks, not the skills.

Looking at the code around that it appears that there is a whole missing section compared to the stock game code that is used for the default char improvement system, in relation to XP and how and when and to whom it is given. e.g. None is given to active officers it appears(unless you have 'shared exp' trait)? etc, and this is amongst the reason i consider the rpg char progression system currently 'broken' in terms of how it effects gameplay. Which is a shame as most of you seem to use it!!

 

[Sulan]

I have noticed a couple of things going through the new file(for initItems.c) that may be an issue, i'll see if i can find the exact nature of my concern - a few lines of missing code about the WeaponsMod != 1 something like that?

That would be my "clean-up". For me it was annoying to have two rather identical item tables for blades and pistols, each one for Weaponsmod on or off. You always had to apply your changes twice. So I rewrote the InitItems procedure to do the "if WeaponsMod != 1"-check and use only one table.

 

[Black Bart]

does that mean we have less weapons now? for either weaponsmod on or off? as they all come from the one table?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Note: I'm used to getting 262 XP per hour sailing in direct sail at normal time speed. It now appears to be 114 XP per hour. Is this the proper amount of reduction?

maybe? I didn't give Pieter any of my files for this so it might have been 'worked out' from the posts i made on the subject in the tweaks and balancing thread? But yeah it was about a 50% decrease in xp, although where you say you get 262XP, my 'crew'(myself and active officers) were getting 1025 or 512XP(see the screenshots before and after in that thread). I guess you are using the 'rpg' char improvement system? If so XP only effects your char level and perks, not the skills.

Looking at the code around that it appears that there is a whole missing section compared to the stock game code that is used for the default char improvement system, in relation to XP and how and when and to whom it is given. e.g. None is given to active officers it appears(unless you have 'shared exp' trait)? etc, and this is amongst the reason i consider the rpg char progression system currently 'broken' in terms of how it effects gameplay. Which is a shame as most of you seem to use it!!

This is why you are getting wildly different results than the rest of us and why I am not sure I want to use your tweaks. Maybe others do not want officers who are 10-10 while the player is at level 8.

 

[morgan terror]

well THAT would explain a few things. officers do get skill xp, i know that, but i have noticed that they level a bit reluctantly. they do need those extra levels though; health is vital. no pun intended. i don't suppose fixing it is as simple as adding the leveling xp code that BB said was missing?

 

[Sulan]

does that mean we have less weapons now? for either weaponsmod on or off? as they all come from the one table?

Nope - the amount of weapons is exactly the same. The tables didn't add up - you used table one if WeaponsMod was enabled and table two if WeaponsMod was disabled. Now you use the same table, regardless if WeaponsMod is enabled or not. You just get the weapons in different qualities if WeaponsMod is enabled - and that's how it was intended anyway.

 

[Sulan]

Looking at the code around that it appears that there is a whole missing section compared to the stock game code that is used for the default char improvement system, in relation to XP and how and when and to whom it is given. e.g. None is given to active officers it appears(unless you have 'shared exp' trait)? etc, and this is amongst the reason i consider the rpg char progression system currently 'broken' in terms of how it effects gameplay. Which is a shame as most of you seem to use it!!

I could have a look at the code and fix it, I think - but I don't want to mess around in the same code files, others are currently working on, so once Black Bart is done, I'll have a look at that. Meanwhile I'll try to repair the item rarity code.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The luggers are fixed. I copied the files from the FTP into this install and now they have all flags and pennants. Dunno what happened to the ones that were already there.


The pictures for weapons needs to be looked at. The pic for the small sword is the Walloon, the Katzbarger is the Milanese rapier, and the Pappenhiemer is the machete.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Changes in attached initItems.c file: http://www.pyratesahoy.com/potc/Pieter%20Assorted%20Files/initItems.zip

Shotgun set to "Unique" properly with Weaponsmod ON; apparently that wasn't set up properly before.
Albatross and tattoos are set to "hidden" and should appear only in your inventory but nowhere else.
So you can't get rid of the albatross so easily anymore!

I set the min.level of unique weapons to 99 just to help with their rarity.
Please try attached file and let me know if you run into any of the following items at random ever:
Francis Drake's Sword
Sword of Cortés
Sword of Bartolomeu
Jack Sparrow Cutlass
Saber of Nicholas Sharp - Quest only blade
English Officer's Saber - English presentation blade
Corsair's Pride - English presentation blade
Dutch Admiralty Sword - Dutch presentation blade
Solingen Rapier - Dutch presentation blade
French Admiralty Rapier - French presentation blade
French Nobility Sword - French presentation blade
Moorish Saber - Spanish presentation blade
Spanish Nobility Longsword - Spanish presentation blade
Portugese Officer's Sword - Portugese presentation blade
Damascus Shamshir - Portugese presentation blade
Dragon's Head - Pirate special blade
Shotgun
Jack Sparrow pistol
Mercenary pistol

If you do run into any, let me know what item it is and whether you have the Weaponsmod ON or OFF.

I'm also interested in whether you ever DO find the following items:
Lockpick (anywhere)
Grenade (for sale)
I don't recall ever finding a lockpick, even though they ARE supposed to show up occasionally.
They DO work as items if I give them to myself through code, but if they don't ever appear, that defeats their purpose.
Also, the grenades were once set up to be commonly available for purchase, but I never ended up seeing them.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Yes I am! The storms seem to come in pairs and I can't seem to dodge them. In the last storm of this last pair the ship ( European Bark with all of the upgrades except brass cannon and flushing) was spinning first this way then that way. It tossed cargo twice and crew once. When the storm finally ended it was in a hard fast spin to the right. I'm currently at sailing skill 4 and captain class 6.

Then we'll have to decrease the inertia value some more. Or just remove the spinning code again as I did before.

 

[Sulan]

Albatross and tattoos are set to "hidden" and should appear only in your inventory but nowhere else.
So you can't get rid of the albatross so easily anymore!

Are you sure? I was under the impression, that the "hidden" tag only means the item's skill bonus is not displayed, if hidden == 1. Would make sense for the Albatross or any other "bad luck"-item anyway.

I'm also interested in whether you ever DO find the following items:
Lockpick (anywhere)
Grenade (for sale)
I don't recall ever finding a lockpick, even though they ARE supposed to show up occasionally.

I saw a lockpick once (must have been a patch 4 or 5 game), but never thereafter

I see grenades quite regularly. Nothing special about them, as far as I recall.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I will try your new tweeks soon.

Lockpicks have always shown up, but I have yet to get one in this P7-2 game. They have always been rare. Grenades? I have over a hunnert of'em and they don't seem to be as effective as they used to be. At the level I'm at now it used to take 1-2 for a kill. Now it takes 3-5, maybe more for the priests.


Hey! Firefox updated itself to 6.0.2 yesterday and this inititems dl is the first one that has not caused a ctd.

 

[Black Bart]

This is why you are getting wildly different results than the rest of us and why I am not sure I want to use your tweaks. Maybe others do not want officers who are 10-10 while the player is at level 8.

I'll be as clear as i can

Prior to these last patch 7 patches, Start a game with default PotC char leveling(where you have to pick your own skills) - so NOT the rpg system. Most of the issues i was finding in my early games, about improving officers to 10 melee etc, about having my own char as having skill 8-10 in a couple of skills, ALL at around a level 8 char level; That all was coming from the fact you would get massive hourly XP(1050 normally) when direct sailing. This was what i found before touching any of the files at all, just to make this clear - this was how the game was when i found it. You can test it yourself.

So in short using the default PotC char leveling system was 'broken' as i found it.

Now in later games that i'm now playtesting under, using the rpg char leveling system, you have a different problem, which is 100% NOT related to XP(as that ONLY effects char level/HP and ability picks - all the Skill increases come from the code i posted above). So when yourself or Morgan say your char and officers have very low skills at even high levels, that is because of this, not XP.

In short the rpg char leveling system is 'broken'.

--------------------------------------------------------

What i have done in my modding around this so far is fix the default PotC Leveling system, so you DONT get a level 8 char with 10 melee now(but you did in the game as i found it). Those kind of code changes might be what has made it into these couple of patches, but i can't say for sure as they are not code/files i've given Pieter?

I've also stared to look at the rpg skills increase system, but my coding knowledge is not sufficiant to fix it to ensure skills level a bit better over the course of a chars leveling etc. I've tweaked it as in the code segment i posted above, but it is still not really right somehow in overall pacing i feel, some skills still do take too long to increase in relation to others, and the lowest setting of 1 in that code(which should mean easiest increase) is not maybe enough for some skills?

Sulan has offered to look into this and that might be the best bet to fix the rpg leveling system And the item rarity code would be a great fix

Anyway i hope that is all clearer now, i haven't 'broken' anything, i've fixed stuff(or pointed to it) that was 'broken' as below:

1. Too much XP = too high skill levels too soon in the game using the default PotC leveling system(now fixed in my files - playtested alot!)
2. Too little skill gain in the rpg leveling sytem on some skills.(not fixed, just aware off and pointed out to others)

well THAT would explain a few things. officers do get skill xp, i know that, but i have noticed that they level a bit reluctantly. they do need those extra levels though; health is vital. no pun intended. i don't suppose fixing it is as simple as adding the leveling xp code that BB said was missing?

I hope so! it is very noticable the difference in officer leveling between the rpg and default leveling systems, your absolutly right about that. I'm not sure exactly why this is though, hopefuly Sulan can find a few possbile reasons and fixes here?

And Morgan i hear you on the HP issues in relation to slower leveling up, i have a couple of idea's i'm testing out for that, the easiest being to just increase the amount of HP at level up(testing 15 instead of 10 curently, too early to say what overall effect it will have, but in relation to high damage from pistol shot(quite common!) probably not a bad place to start)

@ Pieter, i've seen grenades in shops, but only once found a lock pick in a barrel(well i've seen a lockpick only once for sure).

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ok, that was my concern. That reducing advancement in one mode would make advancement stop in the other. I'm not seeing that. :beer



I've run into something new with this economy. Swords are cheap, so I have been buying them and upgrading them to excellent just to see the changes made, and there are lots of changes. I have sold items for 1 piaster too. But, on the other end of the scale it is possible to make so much money so fast by honest trading that mutiny is a serious problem! :ixi To illustrate. I went into a merchant shop with $4,000 total, and came out with $3,200,000 total. That was a good day. 3 I also made a trade run of $2,700,000 and another of $2,400,000. ) This why mutiny is a problem. One needs to carry a large amount of cash in order to buy the goods necessary to make the large profits. And that makes the crew nervous. If the price of trade goods is to stay this high, then maybe the trigger point for mutiny should be raised. It's not like I'm carrying huge cargoes either. My current fleet is a Caravel, a Carrack, and a Gaff Schooner escort ship. No big Fluyts or Pinnaces.

Another thing about those huge profits is that promotions for the officers and myself are coming fast! Like one or two for each of us per trade run. I'm up to level 14 already and my officers aren't far behind.


Oh, suddenly there are ammunition bags and gunpowder barrels in the merchant shops. Lots of them.