Build 14 Beta 1

[Thagarr]

The download works fine Pieter, and it seems to install ok, but I haven't played it yet.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks a lot; at least that means the file isn't corrupted.
So anything that doesn't work means I did a crappy job at compiling it.

 

[Armada]

We have a Ship's Log interface now? Brilliant! No more useless button, right?
You've certainly squeezed a lot into this patch. Looks like Sulan has been particularly busy!

The ship model updates list is dwindling for this release; I'd better get cracking with all my projects...

One more thing, you mentioned the Maltese Knight Abbey twice in the description. I'm sure it's noteworthy, but not to that extent.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

1,000 Curses! I broke down last night and retired my personal record setting game at level 37 and the year of our Lord 1703. Then started a new game with some of the latest updates installed. Now I get to start all over again. This WIP looks too interesting to pass up, but I need to be careful and remember to Backup my WIP Ship and ship.init.c. I'm 50 ships ahead of you Pieter.

 

[Armada]

I'm 50 ships ahead of you Pieter.

I knew there was a reason why the ship model updates list was bizarrely small... :

 

[Hylie Pistof]

AARRGGHH!!

What's up with the DefaultControls.H??????????

I tried the P7-2 and it worked fine, then decided to put my preferred control settings in there and.............disaster. Now there is no mouse or keyboard at all in POTC.

I copied one from a working P6 install and it worked the same. Not at all..................:j3

This might be the problem.......


Armada: There are a dozen or so ships awaiting your updates before they can be completed.

 

[Sulan]

Maybe it does not work, because additional keys were added in Patch 7.2 WIP (e.g. default M for archipelago map). This is referenced in the DefaultSettings.h as

#define CTL_ARCHIPELAGO_MAP     "KEY_M"

I think, it may be necessary to set the controls through the menu. Could you give it a try?

 

[morgan terror]

wait, why was the sailing xp decreased? i thought it was supposed to be adjusted upwards. i'm assuming it refers to raw xp though, not the actual skill. also, i do hope the skill increase rates will be adjusted now most of the skill items are gone. a maximum luck skill of 3 is not quite going to work for me.

but anyway, i'll be testing this. it sounds pretty good.

 

[Sulan]

Have just tested the patch - it seems to work fine for me. No major issues so far.

I did merge my latest bugfix (ammunition bag for officers did not work 100%) and inititems.c with the patch 7.2 WIP, so feel free to patch the patch

btw: Morgan: I included a toggle to toggle skill items on/off in the advanced options. So don't worry about luck.

 

[morgan terror]

that's actually one of the imporvements that cought my eye. it hasn't been working for a very long time. anyway, i'll be turning the toggle on once the skill ratios have been modified, but you in particular know that already.

 

[Black Bart]

If using the rpg system, which i think actually isn't the best system as it locks you out of controlling your char development, which means your completely relient on the code to do a good job, and as it was certain skills just never got very high, even at higher levels, due to the 'mix' of your active Officers taking over certain aspects of running a ship etc, anyway if you do use the rpg system i'd recomend looking at this section of code:

in MAXIMUS_Functions.c(within the main \PROGRAM\ folder)

lines 315 to 358:

// Adjust the skill gained by character level, skill level and uneven gain in skills
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

// Experience in each skill is worth more at low skill levels
skillExp = skillExp * (11 - sti(_refCharacter.skill.(expName)));	// this produces 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

// Adjust for uneven gain in skills
int expMult = 1;
if (_exp < 1000)
{
switch (expName)
{
//	case "Leadership":	expMult =  3; break;	// LDH 30Apr09//BB adjustments for 'rpg' skill increases - aim to make skill increases a bit quicker - Aug 2011
case "Fencing":		expMult =  3; break;    //BB was 3
case "Sailing":		expMult =  1; break;	// included for completeness//BB was 1
case "Accuracy":	expMult =  1; break;	// included for completeness//BB was 1
case "Cannons":		expMult =  1; break;	// included for completeness//BB was 1
case "Repair":
expMult = 30;							// repair is a lot of small skill gains, minimum of 20 sent by repair functions//BB was 50
if (sti(_refCharacter.rank) < 3)		// keeps player from getting repair skill 5 or 6 in the tutorial - 25Feb09
{
expMult = 20;
}
break;
case "Defence":		expMult =  1; break;//BB was 6
case "Sneak":		expMult =  1; break;//BB was 3
}
}
// Things we don't handle in the exp<1000 test above
if (expName == "Leadership") expMult = 2;	// LDH moved outside of test - 30Apr09//BB was 3
if (expName == "Grappling")  expMult = 1;	// grappling is always high experience but doesn't happen often. - 30Apr09//BB was 4
if (expName == "Commerce") skillExp /= 4;	// commerce is usually high, we're cutting it in half here so above test is wrong for this//BB was 2

skillExp *= expMult;

// Level the skill gains across ranks. Experience is worth more at lower rank.
// limit to 2 * experience - 01May09
skillExp = makeint(makefloat(skillExp) * retMin(2.0, 4.0 / stf(_refCharacter.rank)) + 0.5);	// 2.0, 2.0, 1.3, 1.0, 0.75, 0.67 etc

// If you think skills are gained too slow or too fast, here's where to tweak the overall rate.
// Higher number gives faster gain for all skills.
float SkillTweak = 2.0;  //BB was 1.0
skillExp = makeint(makefloat(skillExp) * SkillTweak);

float SkillTweak = 2.0; //BB was 1.0 is where you make overall adjustments, increasing this means your skills will go up quicker, imho at 3.0 and above, with the default code and current values in the code above it, they go up much too fast, especially Melee.

But yeah this code needs some tweaking compared to how it is in the game.

In terms of XP, having less XP isn't a big problem. As it was in either rpg mode or defalut PotC char level mode, your character would level up too quickly, especially in the early game. Getting a level 6-8 char was quite normal before freeing Speightstown, and even as leveling slows down as you level each time(double the xp needed for the next level up), you kind of zipped up the levels in the first few hours of the game, then it really started to slow down during all the rest of the game time(which can be many dozens of hours!Ask HyliePistoff how long his level 36 char took!). So it all felt a little out of sync in terms of leveling and skill gains(and skill gains in the default PotC leveling system was broken in effect - way too easy to get uber crew very early on as i posted about before).

The XP decrease i assume is the one i did for the default PotC leveling system?(not the rpg mode) and which i posted screenshots and explained why it was needed in my tweaks and balancing thread. But i'm kind of used to anything i might do now being picked up on by Morgan Terror :ixi

You use the rpg system Morgan - you need to tweak that system as it is currently broken imho, which is why you think you have issues with XP etc.

in the rpg system XP only effects your char level and special ability picks, it is not connected to your skills like it is in the default PotC system.

The skills in that code above is what you need to worry about, less so the small reduction of XP(which is aimed to smooth out the leveling to fit better with the timescale of the game, especialy in the default PotC leveling system). All the issues you might have about not being able to do stuff etc are because of the rpg skill leveling system - it needs tweaking. So go ahead and have a go, my values above are mostly stock with a few small changes i've been playtesting.

@Pieter, i'll get the file and see where we are at, it sounds like lots of good stuff

EDIT: Also the economic adjustments to weapons in initItems.c are not my values, they must be Sulans so he should be creditied with them in the readme/credits( i find them a little too 'cheap' in general, in relation to other game expenses and between one weapon to another, although i understand he wanted to me to go over them, so in this current released form they are not final i suspect?)

 

[morgan terror]

it's more than i'm picking them out because your opinion of what works better conflicts with mine and you refuse to do something different than what you want, despite any arguments i place. or i'm rather just pointing out possible issues by analysing what you intend to change.

and you're sure that it might not be useful to have a few levels, and therefore several abilities, at the start of your game so you have a base to construct your character on? i've seen it in quite a few games already. it's just so the start of the game isn't too hard and you can define your initial character type, but it might not apply to this particular game. PotC does have quite a few ways to gain levels, and i guess your adjustment adds a bit of longevity to the start of a game. i'd consider it an improvement if the experience gain from all things is now more equal, instead of sailing being disproportionally profitable like you say it used to be.

would the sneak stat be luck? also, why is melee so oddly high?

modifying that code will help, but the problem is partially caused by the source of the player's skill xp, and some features will add new sources (such as a new quest) meaning that the ratios will constantly need to be adjusted. not to mention that the ratios for leadership and luck won't work for all plotlines, since they all have different amounts of quests.

 

[Black Bart]

it's more than i'm picking them out because your opinion of what works better conflicts with mine and you refuse to do something different than what you want, despite any arguments i place. or i'm rather just pointing out possible issues by analysing what you intend to change.

I'm sort of wondering where this all started, i did go away for a few years so i might have forgotten? But anyway if you really have no faith in my abilty to 'do good' for the build mod then maybe i should point out that i first came here as 'Child of Thor' and things like Direct Sailing and the more detailed aspects of the mod as it now is, were often part of the many posts i made under that name, i didn't mod then they were simply idea's and conversations about expanding the game, but modders found some of those useful and did some amazing things.

We have come along way since the original PotC, and the BuildMod has in general addressed the original games problems, and tried to move away from the 'arcade' nature that many Pirate games are(all hack n slash with no real thought for history or the practical concerns of the period). PotC plus the BuildMod is a true 'Pirate Simulation', well as much as you can get in a game more or less. That's what makes it special. Not just another throw away game you finish in 10 hours, never to play again. And that is very much central to all my idea's threads and modding efforts, and always will be.

If i want hack n slash i got many other pirate games that do that(even the later follow on AoP series to some extent!). Only Sid's original 'Pirates!' and the Build Mod treat the subject matter seriously and that is what makes them what they are.

And where exactly do you find your opinion conflicts with mine? I haven't seen the arguement from your side that i can recall(other than seemingly pointblank making a negative comment if it relates to anything i've done?), certainly not where i just plain ignore something you might have said? On the other hand i've posted in vast detail about any changes i look to make and why, even providing screenshots of the evidence in hand to show why this change might be a good one etc? But anyway, if you really just don't like any suggestion i might have then just say it so we all know from now on.

and you're sure that it might not be useful to have a few levels, and therefore several abilities, at the start of your game so you have a base to construct your character on? i've seen it in quite a few games already. it's just so the start of the game isn't too hard and you can define your initial character type, but it might not apply to this particular game. PotC does have quite a few ways to gain levels, and i guess your adjustment adds a bit of longevity to the start of a game. i'd consider it an improvement if the experience gain from all things is now more equal, instead of sailing being disproportionally profitable like you say it used to be.

would the sneak stat be luck? also, why is melee so oddly high?

modifying that code will help, but the problem is partially caused by the source of the player's skill xp, and some features will add new sources (such as a new quest) meaning that the ratios will constantly need to be adjusted. not to mention that the ratios for leadership and luck won't work for all plotlines, since they all have different amounts of quests.

As i mentioned in the tweaks and balance thread, it is not an instant thing i'm looking to do, and it doesn't involve one file in isolation AND it is still WIP. The odd bit here and there might make it into the build from time to time(like dialogue fixes etc), but if you go start a new game(prior to this latest patch 7 wip 2 file) without the rpg char level progression and see what level you will be after about 2-3 hours of playing(and how many of your officers have skill 10 in their field of expertise) and what your highest skills are at, you will see what i'm talking about...maybe?(maybe you like having uber skilled chars after a few hours?).

Also if you see how slowly some skills increase in relation to others when using the rpg char level progression(and that it isn't related to XP at all, just the code for the rpg skill gain), then you may also see the problem?

It's called game balance, in nutshell. And that is what i'm aiming to address, either as a stand alone bunch of fixes i'll post in my 'tweaks and balances' thread, or as part of the Build Mod if deemed suitable by the powers that be. I'd trust them to enusre the build mod carries on to improve, it's taken us quite a long and improved way from the default PotC game

 

[Black Bart]

I had no problem with the patch 7 wip 2 file Pieter; it runs, i've got the weapon textures, all seems good so far, so on with the testing

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Morgan Terror: I'm a bit unsure about why your luck is so bad. For me leadership and luck advance at almost the same rate until later in the game when luck tops out at level 7 and leadership continues to level 10. In my last game melee topped out at level 8. So over time things aren't too bad with patch 6.

Black Bart: How do you get level 10 officers? The only time I see them is late in the game after certain quests are completed. Like Artois Voisey and Edgar Attwood will suddenly explode and become 10-10 in everything. Other than that they don't advance as fast as I do and almost never make level 10 in anything.

Sulan: Thanks for the DefaultControls.h. I reinstalled the patch and played some more last night. The price difference for items really caught my eye, but it seemed that things work out about the same except for one thing. Here I was setting out on my 1st trade mission in the stock lugger and I got over 65,000 gold for it! The money for trade missions tapered off after that, but that money got me all kinds of goodies like an excellent snakehead sword and a new ship.

 

[morgan terror]

i did actually consistently point out possible flaws in your ideas, based on a player's persective, but no more than that. the point is, no matter how much thought you've put into your mods, i can't see into your tweaks and balances thread because it's in the modders section, so i don't know about your thought process before i comment on your mods. i prefer to point out a possibly negative effect on gameplay inflicted by any change if i think of it, instead of assuming someone considered the problem already and risk a bad mod if they actually missed the problem. if you can place an argument as to why my concerns are invalid (which you have), fine. but as long as i can't literally see your reasoning behind making a change (which i currently can't, since you're posting it in the modders section) then i will simply question your reasoning out of ignorance and concern.

anyway, while i was away i've been coming up with a plan for determining what the specific changes need to be for the skill ratios, which sounds similar to what you just suggested:

i want to play until i get a single skill up to 10, look at the level my other skills are at, make a dicision on what the desired level is at which all skills reach 10, and modify the ratios based on that. however, there are some other things i need to pay attention to:
-skill ratios are different depending on difficulty. does a fixed number get added or substracted to the ratios, or do the ratios get multiplied by a specific amount? if it's the latter i'll need to think on my plan some more.
-my playstyle is of course not representative for that of everyone, so i'll be needing results from other people as well so i can take an average from the results.
-related to the previous point is that i'll need test results from multiple plotlines so i can properly determine leadership and luck, though using the original storyline as a baseline might be better.
-is the amount of leveling xp you recieve directly related to skill xp? i don't think so, but if it is i could mess up quite a lot.

i'll be making a seperate topic for that plan of mine if it sounds like a good idea, and once i have the answers to the questions i wrote above.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This new economy has me all messed up. It will take some time to get used to it, but things are calming down. I just got a mission that only gives me 8,500 gold. That is more like it. I was afraid I would get too rich too fast.

The storms are hard now! I capsized in the first one. No longer can you furl the sails and ride it out. You have to actively sail it and take damage.

Sulan: The changes I make can't be done in options, so I made them in defaultcontrols. Everything is fine now.

 

[morgan terror]

so, how's the damage then? do you need the storm helmsman ability or is it managable?

 

[srs77]

Hi everyone,

I just installed patch 7 - 2 and patched the patch

I started new game and noticed something really strange.
I'm playing the Speighostown 'tutorial' and I can 'repaint' Sea Horse in the shipyard to ANY (nad I really mean ANY) ship in the game (?!)

regards

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The skill decrease is indeed Black Bart's one for when the Auto Skill System is off.
However, I'm not sure if that made it into the patch properly.
Looking at the code, it's decreased for when it's ON as well, which I don't think was the idea, right?

For the time being, I stuck this change in there just for the sake of getting some comments.
Then we can decide what to do with it for the proper Patch 7 later.
Obviously we don't want to make the game experience worse for anyone.

Note that all changes in this file are up for debate. Please try them out and let us know how it works.
That's what we do the tests for. Black Bart does adjustments that he hopes will be of benefit to the game.
Then Morgan Terror can play with them and say whether they seem to work as intended for him or not. Right?

Anyway, I'll set up Morgan Terror's user account so he can see the Modding forum also.
That should help, right?

As far as I'm concerned, it's a big experiment anyway. We don't know if the changes will work until we try them.
And hopefully in trying, receiving feedback, and making more adjustments, we'll end up with something that is better than it was.
It might not be better straight away, but that's what we're all aiming for, I think.

Black Bart, can you make a copy of my initItems.c file with your economic adjustments in there?
Or work together with Sulan to get the values that you really want?

Armada: The ship model updates list is dwindling for this release; I'd better get cracking with all my projects...

...

Hylie Pistoff: I'm 50 ships ahead of you Pieter

I know the two of you have been working very hard on the ship models and I hope you'll excuse me for not downloading any of your work yet.
None of your recent stuff made it into this patch because my internet connection is too slow to get them.
Obviously they WILL be added to the REAL Patch 7 to be released when I get back home.

One more thing, you mentioned the Maltese Knight Abbey twice in the description. I'm sure it's noteworthy, but not to that extent.

LOL! I had added it to the feature list yesterday but apparently forgot I already did that as well when I actually fixed it.
Usually I fail to keep the feature list up-to-date properly and have to make it after the fact during compiling.
Obviously will be changed to being listed only once for Patch 7. :boom

I started new game and noticed something really strange.
I'm playing the Speighostown 'tutorial' and I can 'repaint' Sea Horse in the shipyard to ANY (nad I really mean ANY) ship in the game (?!)

AH! I forgot to turn the cheatmode off in the files I uploaded, that's why that happens.
That's a new feature of the cheatmode that I like to use for testing purposes.
Just turn it off at the bottom of PROGRAM\InternalSettingd.h

The storms are hard now! I capsized in the first one. No longer can you furl the sails and ride it out. You have to actively sail it and take damage.

Are you getting any uncontrollable spinning anymore?