WIP 38 gun Frigate Révolutionnaire of 1794

[Captain Armstrong]

Hey all,
I thought it was about time I posted something of my latest project; The 38 gun frigate Révolutionnaire ; a large frigate for her time and very fast. Built by the French in 1794, she was captured by the British in the same year. She was famous for catching French privateers that outran other frigates, and set speed records doing it! The British built a copy of her, the HMS Forte, and I am using the profile plan of this ship as well to help with some of the asthetic features and details, mainly the sheer and head area. This is partly because I like how it looks better that way and partly because areas of the plan for the Révolutionnaire were changed around several times and can be kinda hard to follow. though classified both as a 38 and 40 in various parts of her career, she is a perfect example of the classic french 40 gun frigate. her armament is not on the same level as a 24 pdr 40 like the HMS Endymion- but she is definately heavier than an average 38 like the Hebe
Seine-class frigate.

The Révolutionnaire was launched in 1794, and was the second ship of the 5-strong Seine class, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seine_class_frigate The Seine design was slightly improved upon with the 7-strong Gloire class, which were built from 1803-1807. One of the Gloire class ships became the basis for the 13 ships of the English Seringapatam class after her capture. The designer of the Révolutionnaire , Pierre-Alexandre-Laurent Forfait, also designed the ship that would become the HMS Surprise featured in the Aubrey-Maturin series. : According to records the Révolutionnaire had near perfect sailing qualities, but needed a skilled captain to get her best sailing and speed out of her. Her only faults were because of the differences in French and English design principles; she couldn’t stow as much supplies as English frigates, because of her long and low hull, and she wasn't as strongly built as similar English frigates. She also happened to serve in Sir Edward Pellew’s squadron at the same time as the Hornblower would have, and lasted until 1822.

Battery: Upper deck: 28 or 30 x 18-pounder guns
Quarterdeck: 12 x 32-pounder carronades + 2 x 9-pounder chase guns
Forecastle: 6 x 32-pounder carrondes + 2 x 9-pounder chase guns

Here is what I have so far!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6012471095/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6013018758/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6012470765/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6012470431/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6013018480/in/photostream/

 

[nightwatcher]

Wow, really nice and smooth hull flow.

It seems to me you have changed, evolved your modeling technique. Very nice.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Thanks man, I'm definately still picking up new techniques and trying to be more efficient I used gmax's smoothing features to hide the sharp polygon edges and create the smooth surface. And it also helps that this frigate was designed with a very nice hull form

 

[Armada]

This looks like a promising model! It would make a great replacement for our 36-gun 'Lydia' frigates, I'd say...

 

[Captain Armstrong]

I hope so! I plan on modeling frigates and smaller ships almost exclusively to replace the stock or patched together models (like the Lydia) that I think take away from the feel of the game. do you have any suggestions for ships you think need replacing most in the napoleonic/ revolutionary eras? I was thinking of either replacing the brig, ship-sloop, or making another frigate in between the unite/boussole/surprise and this ship in size next.

 

[Armada]

Well the stock brigs are showing their age now, and I'm sure we could find a much better ship to replace some or all of them, so that could be one possibility.
The stock frigates, however, are getting an overhaul from Jack Harrison, so they're sorted. The corvettes have also received an upgrade as part of the clean-up process for Beta 2.

On the other hand, there is a bit of a gap between the 42-gun Boussole/Indefatigable and the 54-gun Constitution, so maybe another ship of that calibre would be a good addition?
What I'd really love to see made is the HMS Endymion, so we could at least offer a truly different large frigate besides the Constitution and her repaints. :luv

Whatever you decide to do, it will be a great improvement either way.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Here is an Update. I finished the trickiest parts; the bow and stern. But I think they turned out fairly well!
The pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050953216/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050953222/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050953234/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050953238/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050953252/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050953264/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050408673/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050960194/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6050960364/in/photostream/

the colors are from a feature of gmax that allows you to chose the colors of peices you make, and aren't textures, I just did that to give an idea of how she will look. the windows are all blue but they do have frames around them which you can see if you look closely, so that just needs to be addressed in texturing.

"Well the stock brigs are showing their age now, and I'm sure we could find a much better ship to replace some or all of them, so that could be one possibility.
The stock frigates, however, are getting an overhaul from Jack Harrison, so they're sorted. The corvettes have also received an upgrade as part of the clean-up process for Beta 2.

On the other hand, there is a bit of a gap between the 42-gun Boussole/Indefatigable and the 54-gun Constitution, so maybe another ship of that calibre would be a good addition?
What I'd really love to see made is the HMS Endymion, so we could at least offer a truly different large frigate besides the Constitution and her repaints.

Whatever you decide to do, it will be a great improvement either way."

I would love to see the Endymion too! in fact I made her basic hull in delftship a little while back so she is definately on my to do list I might end up making a brig or a smaller frigate first though, depending on what kind of time I have. the smaller brigs are pretty well represented already, and I was thinking that if I made an 18 gun naval brig (from one of the american or british plans on my ftp) the HMS Sophie/ Vincejo model could become the new packet brig, because it has the same # of guns as a (new) naval brig and packet brigs were more likely to have the quarter galleries and top deck where as naval brigs looked more like the HMS Speedy in various sizes. of course the Vincejo did really exist, but from what I've heard a quarter-decked naval brig was fairly rare in Napoleonic times. Are there any other brigs that share the current naval and packet brig model that need replacing? Would a new 18 gun brig and the Vincejo still fill the gap so that all brigs are high detail? For the frigates I was thinking of making a 36ish gun English or English- looking frigate, mounting 46-48 guns including chasers( as well as the Endymion at some point, and maybe some other frigates later on).

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The snow brig (schnyava1 & 2 ) is bugged and in great need of replacement as it is a pretty common ship.

The 16 and 20 gun light brigs are due to be dropped and could be replaced.

The current packet brig is also due to be dropped.

There is plenty to do with both large and small ships.

 

[Armada]

I finished the trickiest parts; the bow and stern. But I think they turned out fairly well!

So do I! Nice work you've got going on there.

I might end up making a brig or a smaller frigate first though, depending on what kind of time I have.

That's fine, there's no deadline for new ships, so we'll add what you make as and when.
By the way, how's your other ship doing? Has it been exported from Gmax yet?

 

[Captain Armstrong]

I finished the trickiest parts; the bow and stern. But I think they turned out fairly well!

So do I! Nice work you've got going on there.

I might end up making a brig or a smaller frigate first though, depending on what kind of time I have.

That's fine, there's no deadline for new ships, so we'll add what you make as and when.
By the way, how's your other ship doing? Has it been exported from Gmax yet?

Thank you! Uggh exporting from Gmax is not a fun process, so I have been putting off exporting the Prince . I should get around to it today or tommorow though.

 

[Armada]

Well as I said, there's no rush. I was just curious to know.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Another update:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6066640020/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6066640228/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6066640392/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6066640486/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6066640846/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6066096877/in/photostream/

once again, the colors are not textures, but just show the color scheme

"The snow brig (schnyava1 & 2 ) is bugged and in great need of replacement as it is a pretty common ship.

The 16 and 20 gun light brigs are due to be dropped and could be replaced.

The current packet brig is also due to be dropped.

There is plenty to do with both large and small ships. "
-I personally think the snow brig should be dropped too, never really liked anthing based off the stock schooner. I have a plan for a snow from the 1740s or something on my FTP but that isnt really even on my to do list. One thing I noticed playing the game is that ships such as the enterprise, hannah, and bounty are fairly rare or limited to certain countries, when they could easily replace the stock barque and schooner- based ships ( with the Prince added in too). In contrast, I see the snow, stock schooner, and the barque litterally everywhere. is there a reason why the stock schooner-based ships and possibly the barque could not have their roles completely taken over or at least shared more by the newer, better ships?

 

[Armada]

She's shaping up nicely!

is there a reason why the stock schooner-based ships and possibly the barque could not have their roles completely taken over or at least shared more by the newer, better ships?

The encounter chances do seem to be far too biased towards stock-based ships, and it's something we're looking to balance out properly.
It would be far better for the newer models to be the more frequently encountered ships. The only problem is, some of them aren't really 'generic' enough.
We have many ships based on real plans from specific navies, and some of them would look unusual in navies they weren't intended for.
I guess what we really need is a few more textures for some of the less distinctive custom ships, so they can be used more widely.

 

[craiggbrown]

Very nice indeed!

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Thanks! texturing isnt really my thing unfortunately, but we will have to see what the future brings in terms of new models! Here is an update on the Revolutionnaire, I'm not quite sure if the hull is finished or not. there are more details I could add, but the polycount is just over 50000 already any thoughts on whether I should add pinrails and more details on the head? I will also need a figurehead, but I dont think I am skilled enough to make one myself. does anyone have the files for any standalone figureheadeads? maybe one of Helldivers? If not, I might settle for a scroll in its place, like on the USS Constitution. Anyways, here are the pics;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6074759306/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6074219953/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6074220011/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6074759610/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6074759740/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6074220363/in/photostream/

 

[Captain Armstrong]

"The only problem is, some of them aren't really 'generic' enough.
We have many ships based on real plans from specific navies, and some of them would look unusual in navies they weren't intended for.
I guess what we really need is a few more textures for some of the less distinctive custom ships, so they can be used more widely."

Just one more thought on this, then Ill give it a rest, could not some of these more generic ships be used more widely even with textures that arent perefect for their given countries? there was never a required paint scheme for entire navies at this time anyway, but most captains painted their ships in whatever was most popular at the time. here are some examples of 'non-standard' paint-schemes
http://www.ussboston.org/hist/img/boston3.jpg
http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/John-Christian-Schetky/The-Moment-Of-Victory-Between-Hms-'shannon'-And-The-American-Ship-Chesapeake-On-1st-June-1813,-1857.html
http://www.artmarine.co.uk/CL_MoreInfo.asp?Basket=&page=&intArtworkID=214
a french frigate (in white/yellow) capturing an english east indiamen (in red) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Bellone_vs_Lord_Nelson-Mayer.jpg
Uss constellation (left) in yellow http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/kn00001/kn02882.jpg
British and french frigate both in yellow http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Venus_%26_semillante_1793.jpg

anyways the reason I am being so persistent about this is because ships such as the heavy warship and battleship are so damn ugly and I dont see how it is better to have a hopelessly ugly ( texturers have done well trying to fix ships like the heavy warship up, but I think the models are just a lost cause in most cases) ships for every nation but a few, which arent accurate for any nation, when they could be replaced by high-detail models that might not have the right paint scheme but will look better overall ( in this case, I think the Bellona and superbe would make good replacements for the heavy warship and battleship.) and there are some ships specific for less nations than they could be, for example the surprise/boussole (I think) is used only for england and france. other nations had very similar looking ships, and the 28 gun frigate was a fairly common type around the time of the american revolution. the us navy even had more 28 gun frigates than constitution class frigates at one point.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jframe.html#http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/boston-h56679.jpg|||
http://members.cox.net/shipkiller/data/frigate/adams_frigate.html
I think the same goes for the Hannah and probably Enterprise as well, very similar to other countries schooners in size and # of guns. Anyways just my 2 cents, If less ships overall is not where the mod wants to go then its cool, just thought I would put that out there. If you guys disagree It would be nice to know how to remove ships or at least make them impossible to encounter so I can make these changes for myself.

 

[Noriruru]

If you guys disagree It would be nice to know how to remove ships or at least make them impossible to encounter so I can make these changes for myself.

Oh that's easy there mate. You just go into the Ships_init.C file in the ships folder under the program section. I do this myself as well. In there all you have to do if find the offending ship/s and look for the line. "refShip.CanEncounter = true;" and change the "true" to false and you'll never have to see that ship again.

 

[Armada]

could not some of these more generic ships be used more widely even with textures that arent perefect for their given countries? there was never a required paint scheme for entire navies at this time anyway, but most captains painted their ships in whatever was most popular at the time.

I agree this would be good to implement, perhaps in the future, but for now the textures will probably remain mostly nation-specific.
The only reason they're like that is for gameplay purposes, so the player can more easily recognise enemy ships. The World Map ships also resemble these paint schemes, but can be changed.
It does seem unnecessary when you consider how else one can identify another ship, so we might look into changing the way pain schemes are used eventually.

anyways the reason I am being so persistent about this is because ships such as the heavy warship and battleship are so damn ugly and I dont see how it is better to have a hopelessly ugly ( texturers have done well trying to fix ships like the heavy warship up, but I think the models are just a lost cause in most cases) ships for every nation but a few, which arent accurate for any nation, when they could be replaced by high-detail models that might not have the right paint scheme but will look better overall ( in this case, I think the Bellona and superbe would make good replacements for the heavy warship and battleship.) and there are some ships specific for less nations than they could be, for example the surprise/boussole (I think) is used only for england and france.

Another good point, and I agree we have some ships which just look ridiculous by our current standards- that includes some AoP stock ships.
We're looking into that with the serious quality control measures we're doing before Build 14 Beta 2, and I'm sure some of the higher quality ships will be used to replace outdated ships.
On the other hand, some of the stock ships are receiving upgrades to bring them closer to standards of the newer ships, so hopefully we'll see a more consistent overall quality for Beta 2.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

If you guys disagree It would be nice to know how to remove ships or at least make them impossible to encounter so I can make these changes for myself.

Oh that's easy there mate. You just go into the Ships_init.C file in the ships folder under the program section. I do this myself as well. In there all you have to do if find the offending ship/s and look for the line. "refShip.CanEncounter = true;" and change the "true" to false and you'll never have to see that ship again.

Thanks a ton mate! I will most definately be doing this.

Armada, the nation-specific paint schemes can certainly be very helpful at times, I was just trying to say that not using them on a few ships if neccessary wouldn't be all that bad or innaccurate
It is good to hear about the quality control and stock ship changes for Build 14 alpha 2, hopefully my ships will be game-ready by then!

 

[Armada]

It is good to hear about the quality control and stock ship changes for Build 14 alpha 2, hopefully my ships will be game-ready by then!

They would certainly be excellent additions to the game!
There's still a while yet before Beta 2's release, at least until some time in November when Pieter gets back, so you should have plenty of time to finish and convert them.