That part probably isn't as important. This model is set up to be from a time when both would have been seen.
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WIP - HMS Shannon (1806) 38 guns
- Thread starter Alex Connor
- Start date
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
Right, I went for top hinged then.
Good choice with the hinged ports! sorry I forgot to reply to that part.
The Trincomalee type stern was the standard in the Royal Navy since long before the Shannon was built and afterwards as well, but I suppose the Lacedamonian type isn't that far off and there is no way of saying what exactly the stern of the shannon herself looked like.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Voe8fdBkLfU/SwGOG8ztiPI/AAAAAAAAADM/j2T7AS9ZfR0/s1600/Dianahull1.jpg
http://todd.mainecav.org/model/macedonian/pics/transoms.jpg
Also I stumbled across this...
http://img1.etsystatic.com/011/0/7132661/il_fullxfull.416260149_blk6.jpg
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
Think I'll do 3 different stern galleries for different versions. Lacedamonian style but with 8 windows, the 6 window version and one Trincomalee style. Only need to move a few pieces around and change decorations. I take it Trincomalee's current 7 window stern gallery is a more modern version from her conversion to a Corvette?
I'm thinking that Shannon profile may be drawn from plans rather than the ship itself? Still, looks good, might do the Shannon in Nelson chequer rather than the white stripe under gunports scheme.
Done the decorations on the first version, just need to change the ones on the window columns and make some small tweaks.
Looks great!
Sounds good! but will you do a different paint scheme for each version, or have all the paint schemes for all the variants? About the Windows: not necessarily, there is no reason why she couldn't have had 7 windows to start with (though the modern plan does show 8) The remnant of her Victorian conversion to a corvette is the fact that the stern is round, she probably didn't even have quarter galleries or stern windows as a corvette, only more gunports. But there is no need to change the position of the windows to allow for 7 in one version IMO, fine to just have 8 or 6 depending on the version.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
One paintscheme per stern gallery, or the other way around
Planning 3-4. Trincomalee's current paintscheme with straight headrails and the 8 window stern gallery from her plans, a version with a white strake going all the way forward, a version with the classic Nelson chequer, and the Shannon vs Chespeake scheme of narrow strake. Possibly the Nelson chequer version as Shannon instead of the narrow strake scheme, in which case there would only be 3. If there are 4 I will make a small variant of one of those stern galleries for it.
Quite impressive what you're managing to do with SketchUp!
When people used that program for Virtual Sailor many, many years ago, the results were... not very good, to say the least.
So I think I big thumbs up is in order!
Three paint schemes would be better for keeping our modpack file size down, because each version of the ship has to be a separate copy of the model, rather than one model sharing textures.
In general, distinctly different variants are preferable because of this. In Hearts of Oak though, with better customisation, this won't be an issue.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
Quite impressive what you're managing to do with SketchUp!
When people used that program for Virtual Sailor many, many years ago, the results were... not very good, to say the least.
So I think I big thumbs up is in order!
I don't think Sketchup is as powerful as for example Maya, but it makes up for this with ease of use. Probably the programme has improved with time though. Helps that I'd been wanting to build a ship model for a long time and had a fair idea of how I would construct it from looking at other peoples models and build threads, the only barrier had been finding tools that I could work out how to use
Right. I like how the current Trincomalee scheme looks so will keep that, and a yellow Nelson chequer version is essential. Have to see how the white strake to bow and narrow stake schemes turn out, not entirely happy with my attempts at them so far. Do think each version is quite distinctive though, even with just 3 major colors between them...Three paint schemes would be better for keeping our modpack file size down, because each version of the ship has to be a separate copy of the model, rather than one model sharing textures.
In general, distinctly different variants are preferable because of this. In Hearts of Oak though, with better customisation, this won't be an issue.
For Hearts of Oak I quite like the idea of having many smaller variants of similar ships, gives a feeling that each ship is you encounter is unique and not simply another example of a particular model.
Hmm, if I had to choose one to omit It would be the one with the white strake carried around the bow, because both it and the trincomalee are schemes that likely wouldn't have been used until after the end of the napoleonic wars. They all look good! one minor thing: the upper cheek is still black on the Nelson chequer version, and should be gold/yellow.
About Hearts of Oak: I agree! I think that building several different sets of bow and stern arrangments from various sister ships could provide a lot of variety, and make common classes of ships seem less repetitive. also allows for more customization
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
I've finished up the stern decorations and mapped the stern gallery, since this area is all but complete. Just need to replace the top rail and and the curved piece at the bottom of the quarter gallerys (no idea what that is called
)
Found a polycount plugin for SketchUp, tells me the model without armament is 20k tris so far. Stern decorations make up 1.6k of that, which IMO is acceptable, I'd rather stick to modeled detail than use a texture there if possible because games start to blur textures at much shorter ranges than geometry.
Gorgeous!
As far as the paint schemes go, regardless of historical accuracy, the yellow-and-black one matches nicely with the British Royal Navy schemes we've got in PotC
and the first black-and-white one with white masts would work well for the United States. Not sure what to make of the other two though.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
As far as I know no Leda class frigate was captured by any other navy...
Though I suppose yellow or white "Nelson Chequer" could well be seen on French and American ships as well as British during this era. Probably other nations too, and the Leda class does resemble similar frigate types that saw service with many navies.
Just going by the national colour schemes we've been using. I know by now that black-and-yellow as well as black-and-white were used by basically EVERY nation.
But that doesn't make for good gameplay when you're trying to see nationality from afar.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
Ah, I haven't really played PotC, only a little CoAS.
Didn't realize you had a color scheme for each nation. Can different national paintschemes be made with only different textures, without needing to have a separate copy of the model?
Although my preference in this regard would be to have a state where you needed to close on a ship to identify it, running the risk of accidentally engaging a much more powerful foe than intended. Where warships and merchant vessels would have suitable AI, but an Indiaman might try to bluff you into thinking it is a ship of the line, or you would be examining a group of ships, trying to work out if they are a fleet or convoy, and if the latter how many escorts are present. Maybe for Hearts of Oak...
In theory it should be possible in CoAS, but not in PotC. There any new colour scheme must be basically its own completely new ship with its own model files.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
CoAS seems to have that. My current squadron has 2 yellow straked Temeraire class 74s, a white straked version, a red-blue-yellow version, and I've seen an all black paintscheme and a red strake version. Also 2 different Bellona version and the dark wood/blue version of the Couronne (I managed to get the 8 ship squadron mod working in GoF 2.0)
Sounds good to me.
Using modelled details will be better for Hearts of Oak anyway, so it's good practice.
I took shortcuts with the Rossiya's ornaments because I originally intended to make her only for PotC and CoAS, but now I'll need to upgrade several parts for Hearts of Oak.
The whole national colour scheme idea used to be quite strict in the Build Mod, with black/yellow for RN ships, red/yellow for French ships, and white/black for US ships.
However, this only applies to late 18th and early 19th century ships in the game, and as you can see, only caters for three nations.
More recently, we've relaxed this rule because it's unrealistic and kind of silly to use for only a small portion of the ships, so lesser known paint schemes like the narrow strake are more welcome.
I think the rule was more relevant when we had fewer models of each type of ship, so they had to be shared out among most nations.
However, thanks to people like you and Captain Armstrong, we now have an abundance of Napoleonic frigates from multiple nations, so in theory we could restrict some of them to use by their respective navies.
That way, we'd be relying less on the paint schemes and more on the differences in design to distinguish between vessels from each nation.
As for the ratio of paint schemes to models, in PotC it's 1:1, but in CoAS I think it's up to 3:1.
In the first case, more paint schemes require more models, and in the latter case, you need more models if you want more than three paint schemes.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
Well, that makes it a lot easier to plan ahead
for PotC I'll do 2 models then, each with its own stern gallery, figurehead and paintscheme. Possibly the yellow strake and the narrow strake, can be decided later.
For CoAS I'll stick to the 2 models but will have up to 6 schemes to play with, and I can do different patterns without needing to change mapping by using a couple of duplicate materials.
Can PoTC/CoAS use indexed textures to save file size? If yes I might well use the full 6 for CoAS since no material in the model would be larger than 512kb and most would be half that or even smaller. Probably whole model's textures under 5mb. If only RGB can be used then each paintscheme would be 4 times that.
Alex Connor
HoO Team Member
Reworked a lot of the textures, finally got the carronades to import, few other details....
...oh, and Shannon isn't alone anymore
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