• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Some suggestions

Some skills don't seem to matter if they're level 5. You don't get much benefit from higher skills in those areas. But there are some skills where there's a noticeable difference. You can easily tell the difference between levels 8, 9 and 10 in accuracy and cannons. Commerce makes a big difference all through the range. There are probably others.

If you don't like skill items, don't use them. As for me, I'll be using them, a lot.

Your weapons ideas sound good to me.

I've found that the only way to keep a player from making money is to limit the amount the merchants have to buy things. This is not a universally popular idea even among those who think there's too much money in the game already.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it is too easy to make money selling looted/found/stolen items. I think you should be able to loot/find/steal even the most rare/expensive things. The probability should however be reduced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you mean here. You can already find everything but unique weapons. Rare stuff really is rare. Finding better stuff depends on your luck skill, which is a good reason to try to get it as high as possible. Since there are only 3 good luck raising items, you need to hire an officer with high luck and give HIM those items.

As for it being easy to make money selling items, there aren't many sources available with little or no risk. As for the riskier methods, how much should a player make clearing a dungeon with two dozen bad guys and half a dozen boxes?

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=312599:date=Apr 12 2009, 12:14 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 12 2009, 12:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some skills don't seem to matter if they're level 5. You don't get much benefit from higher skills in those areas. But there are some skills where there's a noticeable difference. You can easily tell the difference between levels 8, 9 and 10 in accuracy and cannons. Commerce makes a big difference all through the range. There are probably others.

If you don't like skill items, don't use them. As for me, I'll be using them, a lot.

Your weapons ideas sound good to me.

I've found that the only way to keep a player from making money is to limit the amount the merchants have to buy things. This is not a universally popular idea even among those who think there's too much money in the game already.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it is too easy to make money selling looted/found/stolen items. I think you should be able to loot/find/steal even the most rare/expensive things. The probability should however be reduced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you mean here. You can already find everything but unique weapons. Rare stuff really is rare. Finding better stuff depends on your luck skill, which is a good reason to try to get it as high as possible. Since there are only 3 good luck raising items, you need to hire an officer with high luck and give HIM those items.

As for it being easy to make money selling items, there aren't many sources available with little or no risk. As for the riskier methods, how much should a player make clearing a dungeon with two dozen bad guys and half a dozen boxes?

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Hook,

I mean that rare stuff, IMHO, is not very rare. But this is a personal opinion, others may think otherwise. As for risky means of profit, well, I have adjusted my playing style and can do most anything at adventurer lvl. On swashbuckler also(on land), but the sea battles on that lvl are too difficult without maxed out skills, so I gave it up.
So why not give an option for the player, if possible, to set probabilities of finds himself?

Regards, Oldtimer
 
<!--quoteo(post=312575:date=Apr 11 2009, 11:36 PM:name=Megla)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Apr 11 2009, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=312562:date=Apr 11 2009, 10:57 PM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 11 2009, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- the wear of weapons just increases micromanagement. I recall Pieter saying that if weapons are upgradeable at blacksmith`s, they should also degrade. I beg to differ, my solution is that weapons should not be upgradeable but have a set manufacturing quality from say, very poorly made to masterwork items with prices and chance to find/buy set accordingly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I dissagree with you there.Its a nice toutch that makes you actually care for yor weapon. Besides with the current settings it takes forever for quality to decrease. Youd have to battle a whole fort before it decreases.

And i allso dont see a big deal with going to the blacksmith along with the merchant for food.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Megla,

I understand your definition of "forever" is something like 5 parries or thereabouts...
After every visit in the jungle or a dungeon my blade has decreased at least one lvl. This is no fun at all, IMHO.
Admittedly I seek combat, but anyway... Considering that I am more of a pistolero than a swordsman makes this even more awkward.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
You can, of course, do that in PROGRAM\ITEMS\initItems.c. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
It seems there's a bit of a problem with which items you can find and which ones not.
For example, you can find many blades that I deliberately set to be unique, so I'm not happy with that at all.
On the other hand, I personally have never seen a lockpick and those <i>are</i> intended to show up every once in a while.

As for the more complicated fighting mods, such as qualitized weapons, bladedamage and gunpowder mod, I'd prefer to keep those enabled by default.
If people don't like it, it's easy enough to turn them off.
But if they're turned off by default, people won't be quick to notice that those mods exist if they DO want them. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

Shouldn't there be some way to make some sort of game economy where your income and spendings are usually somewhat in balance?
That way, you wouldn't be making insane amounts of money.
But that'd be really hard to achieve, especially when taking into account various gameplay styles.
 
Hi Pieter,

for a player it would be easier to just be able to set find chance to 50%, 25% or 10% of default in the Options screen.

I do agree however, that the more advanced weapons mods should be on by default.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
<!--quoteo(post=312607:date=Apr 12 2009, 12:53 AM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 12 2009, 12:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312607"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=312575:date=Apr 11 2009, 11:36 PM:name=Megla)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Apr 11 2009, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=312562:date=Apr 11 2009, 10:57 PM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 11 2009, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- the wear of weapons just increases micromanagement. I recall Pieter saying that if weapons are upgradeable at blacksmith`s, they should also degrade. I beg to differ, my solution is that weapons should not be upgradeable but have a set manufacturing quality from say, very poorly made to masterwork items with prices and chance to find/buy set accordingly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I dissagree with you there.Its a nice toutch that makes you actually care for yor weapon. Besides with the current settings it takes forever for quality to decrease. Youd have to battle a whole fort before it decreases.

And i allso dont see a big deal with going to the blacksmith along with the merchant for food.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Megla,

I understand your definition of "forever" is something like 5 parries or thereabouts...
After every visit in the jungle or a dungeon my blade has decreased at least one lvl. This is no fun at all, IMHO.
Admittedly I seek combat, but anyway... Considering that I am more of a pistolero than a swordsman makes this even more awkward.

Regards, Oldtimer
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

My defenition of forever is 5 ships with atleast 3 decks to fight on. As for dungeons. I went through 3 dungeons with no blade quality loss. But i must admit that i hardly ever use block. I only block when i absolutly have to. Its a lot easier to simply backstep. That does however prolong my blades status.
 
<!--quoteo(post=312606:date=Apr 11 2009, 05:41 PM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 11 2009, 05:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312606"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean that rare stuff, IMHO, is not very rare. But this is a personal opinion, others may think otherwise. As for risky means of profit, well, I have adjusted my playing style and can do most anything at adventurer lvl. On swashbuckler also(on land), but the sea battles on that lvl are too difficult without maxed out skills, so I gave it up.
So why not give an option for the player, if possible, to set probabilities of finds himself?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You shouldn't find rare items that often. Occasionally you'll find some rare item on the beach when first starting the game, but you won't find another for several hours of playing. I think in all the time I've spent playing, hundreds of hours, probably thousands by now, I've only found the best spyglass in a box or lying on the ground three times. All this happens because the random number generator hates us and likes to tease us. We could make rare items even more rare, but you'd still find one on the beach at the start of the game. I'll look at the code to see what can be done.

I think the difficulty is adjusted so that Adventurer is intended to be hard but still playable. The hardest level probably isn't balanced as well.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand your definition of "forever" is something like 5 parries or thereabouts...
After every visit in the jungle or a dungeon my blade has decreased at least one lvl. This is no fun at all, IMHO.
Admittedly I seek combat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It only takes 5 blocks to decrease a weapon's quality? That's interesting. I play with that mod off, because it filled my inventory with too much stuff and on every boarding, sometimes on every deck, I'd hear someone's sword break.

So, Pieter... is THIS the reason you want to limit blocking? If so, the problem isn't the blocking.

We only have two things we can do during a swordfight: hit and block. If we eliminate blocking by any method, we are left with an unsubtle bashing contest. There will be times you *have* to block. Megla, if you haven't seen one yet, trust me, you will.

Hook
 
It doesnt take 5 blocks. It takes 100 to 200 attacks/blocks in patch 1 and 50 to 100 attacks/blocks in patch 2.

I myself have it set so that if i block 20 attacks my weapons decreases in quality.
 
<!--quoteo(post=312648:date=Apr 12 2009, 10:04 AM:name=Megla)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Apr 12 2009, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesnt take 5 blocks. It takes 100 to 200 sttacks/blocks in patch 1 and 50 to 100 attacks/blocks in patch 2.

I myself have it set so that if i block 20 attacks my weapons decreases in quality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Megla,

FYI I was recently attacked by something like 7-8 baddies when leaving the tavern in Smugglers Lair. So close to the door that I did not see myself. 3 set upon me, others were engaged by my 2 crewmen.
Anyway, in such a situation it`s not possible to dodge or run away. I had to block and drink potions.
My blade decreased 1 notch in quality and I am pretty certain it was much less than 20 blocks. We won, I saved, exited and turned blade damage off. Until then I used vanilla 14.9.2.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
<!--quoteo(post=312696:date=Apr 12 2009, 04:18 PM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 12 2009, 04:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=312648:date=Apr 12 2009, 10:04 AM:name=Megla)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Apr 12 2009, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesnt take 5 blocks. It takes 100 to 200 sttacks/blocks in patch 1 and 50 to 100 attacks/blocks in patch 2.

I myself have it set so that if i block 20 attacks my weapons decreases in quality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Megla,

FYI I was recently attacked by something like 7-8 baddies when leaving the tavern in Smugglers Lair. So close to the door that I did not see myself. 3 set upon me, others were engaged by my 2 crewmen.
Anyway, in such a situation it`s not possible to dodge or run away. I had to block and drink potions.
My blade decreased 1 notch in quality and I am pretty certain it was much less than 20 blocks. We won, I saved, exited and turned blade damage off. Until then I used vanilla 14.9.2.

Regards, Oldtimer
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The number of blocks doesnt really matter, its both blocks AND attacks at the same time. Its like this there is a counter that starts with 0. Each time you strike someone it increases by 1. Each time you block an attack it allso increases by 1. And when quality decreases the counter returns to 0.

So basically if you hit 49 people and then block the counter goes to 50 and quality decrease. Ofcourse tehre is some randomness to it with an additional random value but lets ignore that for now shall we ^^

Hence why im thinking of having 2 counters. 1 for attacks and 1 for blocks. and have them both reset uppon quality decrease.

Really simple as long as i can find where the first counter is initiated >.<
 
I'm really quite sure I had posted something here earlier today, but my post seems to have disappeared.

Actually, hitting a person DOESN'T count; just blocking. Other than that, you are correct.
In Patch 2 it will take you between 50 and 100 blocks before your blade will degrade in quality one level. It was between 100 and 200 in Patch 1.
Of course if your blade was close to breaking before the fight started, you might have your blade deteriorate after five hits.
But by that time it had already not deteriorated for over 50 blocks.

Do you oppose to the CONCEPT of the bladedamage mod or to the FREQUENCY?
 
Just for clarity's sake, here is how the bladedamage mod works:
- For each block (and hitting an enemy's block), the blockdamage counter is increased by one
- Once the counter goes over the <i>_base</i> + rand( <i>_rand</i> ) value (with some skill modifiers), your blade will decrease one level in quality
- Only worn blades will ever break on you; when they do, you keep a broken blade in your inventory which can be repaired again
- If your blade broke, you equip your fists, but you can use the Quick-Equip key to get yourself another blade straight away
- When enemies break their blades, either they will continue fighting with their fists or they'll run away

It could happen that your blade breaks after 5 hits, but in that case you were already using a worn blade and it had already been quite a while since your blade last decreased in quality.
Basically, if you don't want your blade to break, make sure you repair it once it becomes worn. If you do that, nothing much can happen.

The code appears to work as intended and I do not believe that the concept is flawed to begin with.
If there's blade qualities and you can increase their quality, it should be possible for the quality to decrease too.
It could be that the _base and _rand values need to be tweaked a bit though; bladedamage should occur only occasionally and not become a real nuisance.
Unless, of course, you don't appreaciate the concept of the mod at all, in which case it's easy enough to turn it off.
 
<!--quoteo(post=312609:date=Apr 12 2009, 01:07 AM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 12 2009, 01:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for a player it would be easier to just be able to set find chance to 50%, 25% or 10% of default in the Options screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->For every item you mean? I don't think I understand quite what you want to be able to tweak here... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
There's also a problem with the code not being able to find something to put in a box or on an item locator because of rarity. Currently it gives up if it has to try too many times to get an item and puts some random health item instead. That's one reason you see so many health potions in boxes. If we made things even more rare, you'd see nothing but health potions and such.

Hook
 
that bladedamage post ended up over in my storyline post.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 12 2009, 06:01 AM) *
QUOTE
I understand your definition of "forever" is something like 5 parries or thereabouts...
After every visit in the jungle or a dungeon my blade has decreased at least one lvl. This is no fun at all, IMHO.
Admittedly I seek combat
It only takes 5 blocks to decrease a weapon's quality? That's interesting. I play with that mod off, because it filled my inventory with too much stuff and on every boarding, sometimes on every deck, I'd hear someone's sword break.

So, Pieter... is THIS the reason you want to limit blocking? If so, the problem isn't the blocking.

We only have two things we can do during a swordfight: hit and block. If we eliminate blocking by any method, we are left with an unsubtle bashing contest. There will be times you *have* to block. Megla, if you haven't seen one yet, trust me, you will.
5 blocks? Impossible. The counter increases by 1 with every block and _base is set to 50, so you can do at least 50 blocks (give or take a couple).
The real reasons I'm against the "infinite block syndrome" are the ones I have already given you.

It could be that _base and _rand are not balanced the way they should; they were 100/100 before,
but with those values I never had my blade break once through a whole playing of the Bartolomeu main quest.
With 50/50, I had my blade break once during the part of the Assassin quest that is finished so far, so I reckon the values should be higher than 50/50.
Maybe try 75/75? In PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h set:
CODE
#define BLADEDAMAGE_BASE 75 // INT - This increases the amount of strokes you can CERTAINLY do without your blade breaking.
#define BLADEDAMAGE_RAND 75 // INT - This increases the amount of strokes you MIGHT BE ABLE to do without your blade breaking.

I've got two counters in place to count the total amount of blocking you do during the game.
I'll restore the console log messages for those; then I'd be interested in the values people get after playing the game for a while.
That way, we might be able to decide upon better values by taking the total number of blocks during the game
and diviving it by a number that we'd consider reasonable for blade breaking.
So that eventually your blade might decrease in quality maybe 10 times during the straight playing of a main quest.
It takes 5 decreases in quality to break your blade, starting out from Excellent, so you would break you blade twice then during the main quest
if you'd use Excellent blades and never repair.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
I know you have to block But in every single dungeon you can get through without blocking once.

The only time you have to block is in a fort or a boarding where you actually manage to get to the front line.
 
<!--quoteo(post=312768:date=Apr 12 2009, 11:11 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Apr 12 2009, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=312609:date=Apr 12 2009, 01:07 AM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 12 2009, 01:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for a player it would be easier to just be able to set find chance to 50%, 25% or 10% of default in the Options screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->For every item you mean? I don't think I understand quite what you want to be able to tweak here... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Pieter,

I look at Oblivion mods here. By default this game sets a "chance to find" for each game item.
Low lvl items are found often, others more seldom.

But you can set a modifier for this in some Oblivion overhaul mods, so that if a "chance to find" is 10% it will be, say, 5%. If it is 1% it will be 0,5%.

That is what I am looking for, a general modifier for all default "chances to find" across the board to be set by the player.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
Hi Pieter,

sorry but I must say I oppose the concept of bladedamage. And I know it can be turned off, which I did.

Much more realistic and interesting would be a risk of edged weapon breaking(irretrievably) during combat as I recently suggested.
This risk should be a function of quality difference between opposing blades, opponents melèe and luck skills and maybe some random dice throw.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
People complained about their swords breaking and then them loosing the swords. SO they greak and stay in that state in your inventory for possible repairs at a blacksmith.

As for realism. A blade thats used well and cared for will not break so easily just because its quality isnt as high as the other blade. BUt if the sword is in a prety bad shape to begin with then itll break.

How much the quality of the sword suffers during damage is a different thing.
 
<!--quoteo(post=312832:date=Apr 13 2009, 09:37 AM:name=Oldtimer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Apr 13 2009, 09:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Much more realistic and interesting would be a risk of edged weapon breaking(irretrievably) during combat as I recently suggested.
This risk should be a function of quality difference between opposing blades, opponents melèe and luck skills and maybe some random dice throw.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->If that is done, with a bit of bad luck, your blade COULD break after 5 hits, since it'd be completely random.
The following settings are available in PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h for tweaking the bladedamage mod:<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->// Bladedamage
#define BLADEDAMAGE_BASE                75        // INT - This increases the amount of strokes you can CERTAINLY do without your blade breaking.
#define BLADEDAMAGE_RAND                75        // INT - This increases the amount of strokes you MIGHT BE ABLE to do without your blade breaking.
#define BLADEDAMAGE_DEFAULTBLADE    "bladeX4"    // ITEMID - This is the blade characters use after their blade is broken. Default to "bladeX4" (fists). Set to "blade5" for daggers.
#define BLADEDAMAGE_USEOTHERBLADE        0        // BOOL - If 0, the character will use the DEFAULTBLADE after breaking. If 1, the character will use another blade, if available.
#define BLADEDAMAGE_KEEPBROKENBLADE        0        // BOOL - If 0, enemy will have lose their blade completely after their blade broke. If 1, enemy will be given a broken blade after their blade broke<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Which of the following do you oppose to exactly?<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- For each block (and hitting an enemy's block), the blockdamage counter is increased by one
- Once the counter goes over the _base + rand( _rand ) value (with some skill modifiers), your blade will decrease one level in quality
- Only worn blades will ever break on you; when they do, you keep a broken blade in your inventory which can be repaired again
- If your blade broke, you equip your fists, but you can use the Quick-Equip key to get yourself another blade straight away
- When enemies break their blades, either they will continue fighting with their fists or they'll run away<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
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