Included in Build Ship Encounter Chances Correction

[Armada]

Are we really going to put the US_Brig47 in use for England when we've already got an RN_Brig?

Um... variety is the spice of life?

How about making a Lady Washington skin of the HMS Interceptor and doing away with the US_Brig47 altogether?
Or REALLY change her into an FR_Brig?

The US already has the USS_Enterprise brig which is very similar to HMS_Interceptor.
BUT, I do remember reading that Craiggo made a Lady Washington skin for the Interceptor in CoAS. Perhaps we could borrow that if you like.

Is there any point in putting an unnamed HMS Surprise in use in the game for random encounters?
While we still don't have a REAL Master & Commander storyline, is there any specific need to keep her unique?

Good question. The main reason we can't immediately make the ship generic is that the name needs to be removed from the stern with Maya.
Ages ago I was working on fixing a couple of things with that ship, so maybe sometime soon I can finish it off and make a version without the nameplate.
That reminds me, we're still missing a HMS Providence too.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Yeah, that's why I didn't want to pick on the Trinity, because I know a lot of work has gone into those paint schemes.
Maybe, to minimise the amount of work we lose, we could keep FR_Trinity for France and England, use NL_Trinity for Spain, make PO_Trinity unique for Vanderdecken, and only drop RN_Trinity.
I recall Noriruru said PO_Trinity was his personal configuration from PotBS, so making it unique at least gives it a use. How does that sound?

I thought it was the RN_Trinity he insisted on adding. Can't remember now.

If you think about it, as far as three-deckers are concerned, Portugal loses two and Holland loses one, which isn't downsizing much.
They never did have anything like the number of large ships of England, France and Spain in the game.
In fact, I actually gave both Holland and Portugal use of RN_Superbe, which at least provides them with something that can match the other navies' largest ships.

Nah, not downsizing too much. In fact, if all nations WERE the same, it'd be rather boring anyway. More differences are good!
Not sure about the RN_Superbe being Dutch-ey though. I can't seem to get used to how generic that black-and-yellow scheme is becoming.

About England having "a lot" of ships... this is why I added the "Number of ships" row to the spreadsheet.
If you check that, England currently has 120 ships, BUT Spain has 121 and France has 130, so they're not as over privileged as you might think.
Yes, they do have the joint highest average chance per ship, tying with the US, but not by much.

England has definitely the most unique, high-detail ships though.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Um... variety is the spice of life?

For repaint options, yes. For on-sea encounters, I like a little more separation.

The US already has the USS_Enterprise brig which is very similar to HMS_Interceptor.
BUT, I do remember reading that Craiggo made a Lady Washington skin for the Interceptor in CoAS. Perhaps we could borrow that if you like.

Indeed I forgot about the USS_Enterprise. How could I?
A Lady Washington version might be used for another nation though. Doesn't her scheme sort-of fit in with your new British style colouring?

Good question. The main reason we can't immediately make the ship generic is that the name needs to be removed from the stern with Maya.
Ages ago I was working on fixing a couple of things with that ship, so maybe sometime soon I can finish it off and make a version without the nameplate.

Maya required? That's a bit of a shame. Hadn't noticed that was modeled.

That reminds me, we're still missing a HMS Providence too.

True, that. Would be nice to have some sort of new PotC film content again.
On the other hand, I doubt she'll be seeing any quest use any time soon. So where WOULD she be used? Another Vanderdecken ship?
While I'm not against those at all, it IS very limited to have ships just there.

Which reminds me: We should advertise Vanderdecken in the game. Rumours and the like, perhaps?

 

[Armada]

I thought it was the RN_Trinity he insisted on adding. Can't remember now.

The Portuguese version is my TrinityDM version which is a direct recreation of the Trinity I presonally sailed in Pirates of the Burning Sea. The TrinityDM is solid color for accuracy due to the Trinity model in Pirates of the Burning Sea not actually having that blue top highlight you're talking about. That top highlight was a rather nice touch added to our version by Armada.

Not sure about the RN_Superbe being Dutch-ey though. I can't seem to get used to how generic that black-and-yellow scheme is becoming.

Well I don't really know what the Dutch used from the late 18th century onwards, so all I can do is guess. This is all I've been able to find so far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_line_of_the_Dutch_Republic
If it bothers you, we can stop them from using RN_Superbe. As I said, they didn't have use of it before, so technically they're not losing out.

England has definitely the most unique, high-detail ships though.

Blame Pgargon and his incredible modelling spree.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Blame Pgargon and his incredible modelling spree.

Why would I blame him? Indeed he started out with a lot of RN ones, but he was doing a great job at the end making ships from other nations:
FR_Superbe, US_Enterprise, FR_Couronne, SP_ApostolFelipe, US_Hannah, SP_SanFelipe, PO_CaravelR, NL_LightPinnace, NL_Derfflinger and NL_FWzP? Not so bad for diversity!

 

[Armada]

For repaint options, yes. For on-sea encounters, I like a little more separation.

So... we could keep US_Brig47 unique to the US, but still have them share RN_Brig, maybe?
I mainly suggested sharing the US version to give England some more white schemes to use, but as far as brigs go, they do have the Sophie and Speedy, so perhaps it's overkill.

A Lady Washington version might be used for another nation though. Doesn't her scheme sort-of fit in with your new British style colouring?

Perhaps, but I reckon it could work as a kind of generic scheme more like US_Hannah. The blue and yellow is more for larger frigates and ships-of-the-line, anyway, and isn't exclusive to England.

Maya required? That's a bit of a shame. Hadn't noticed that was modeled.

It wasn't the best idea the original modeller had, for sure.

True, that. Would be nice to have some sort of new PotC film content again.
On the other hand, I doubt she'll be seeing any quest use any time soon. So where WOULD she be used? Another Vanderdecken ship?
While I'm not against those at all, it IS very limited to have ships just there.

Which reminds me: We should advertise Vanderdecken in the game. Rumours and the like, perhaps?

If in doubt, resort to Vanderdecken indeed! Some rumours about him in the game would be great, as I'm sure there are many players who still don't know about him.

 

[Armada]

Why would I blame him? Indeed he started out with a lot of RN ones, but he was doing a great job at the end making ships from other nations:
FR_Superbe, US_Enterprise, FR_Couronne, SP_ApostolFelipe, US_Hannah, SP_SanFelipe, PO_CaravelR, NL_LightPinnace, NL_Derfflinger and NL_FWzP? Not so bad for diversity!

Because he's made the largest contribution to the Royal Navy? Or is that EVERY navy?
All I know is, I made a Russian frigate, so you can't blame me.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All I know is, I made a Russian frigate, so you can't blame me.

I'm not blaming anyone. Things might be a bit skewed in favour of good 'ol England. But I'm not going to complain about actually having a lot of good models, now, am I?

 

[Armada]

Any thoughts on the following?

Maybe, to minimise the amount of work we lose, we could keep FR_Trinity for France and England, use NL_Trinity for Spain, make PO_Trinity unique for Vanderdecken, and only drop RN_Trinity.
I recall Noriruru said PO_Trinity was his personal configuration from PotBS, so making it unique at least gives it a use. How does that sound?

Well I don't really know what the Dutch used from the late 18th century onwards, so all I can do is guess. This is all I've been able to find so far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_line_of_the_Dutch_Republic
If it bothers you, we can stop them from using RN_Superbe. As I said, they didn't have use of it before, so technically they're not losing out.

So... we could keep US_Brig47 unique to the US, but still have them share RN_Brig, maybe?
I mainly suggested sharing the US version to give England some more white schemes to use, but as far as brigs go, they do have the Sophie and Speedy, so perhaps it's overkill.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As far as I'm concerned, I said what I had to say. Up to you now. You're the boss, boss!

 

[Armada]

OK then:
- NL_Trinity renamed to SP_Trinity; no paint scheme changes since it looks OK as-is; see SP_Trinity.7z
- PO_Trinity made unique to Vanderdecken
- RN_Trinity removed
- RN_Superbe not used for Holland
- US_Brig47 still used for England and France, for variety's sake

Please see the attached Ships_init.c for testing! (file based on Beta 2.5 WIP 2)
I need to know if things have improved in Period 2 (Chevalier), primarily. We don't want all encounters to purely involve tiny ships.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks a lot!

Some notes:
- The GeraldSails changes for the Yachts are intentional, right?
- Since I replaced the rigging on the US_Brig47 as per your request, I am also applying the RN_Brig stats to her
- Why could we no longer repaint between the HMS_Indefatigable and FR_Boussole?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I am playing playing beta 2.5 WIP 3. Is this compatible?

Also I am playing the Chevalier and there are plenty of big ships. I just finished a battle where there were 3 Kreyser class frigates, 1 heavy East Indiaman, 1 Spanish War Galleon, and my Caravel. Level 8 now.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I am playing playing beta 2.5 WIP 3. Is this compatible?

Having just WinMerged the whole shebang, I think using it in WIP 3 should be fine.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ok, the new one is 2 kb smaller.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The RN_Trinity is removed, making the file smaller.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Wow I missed a lot! I read through the discussion, but I might have missed a few things.
Some thoughts:
Here is a british frigate with white lower masts, though she is still the standard black/yellow scheme. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ig_'Orquijo',_18_guns,_8th._February_1805.jpg
The vessel it is supposed to depict was a captured Hebe-derived french frigate, and in the painting it is a typical wall-sided British Frigate, but it is accurate enough overall to suggest that the artist simply hadn't seen the ship in question, and had to make do with another to represent her. So it shouldn't be too big of a deal to have British vessels with white lower masts. However, the Brits didn't have all the same types of vessels as the Americans. Baltimore clippers and the PDN and such should still be strictly American.

About the USS_Enterprise- was that ship not removed long ago? we had a debate about it awhile back, and decided to remove it because it had a ridiculously heavy armament for so small a vessel ( many gunports had been added compared to the lady washington) and the US didn't have any quarterdecked brigs anyway-certainly not with armament on the quarterdeck.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

About the USS_Enterprise- was that ship not removed long ago? we had a debate about it awhile back, and decided to remove it because it had a ridiculously heavy armament for so small a vessel ( many gunports had been added compared to the lady washington) and the US didn't have any quarterdecked brigs anyway-certainly not with armament on the quarterdeck.

No, she's still there. She's not realistic, perhaps, but I'd hate to lose her.

 

[Armada]

Some notes:
- The GeraldSails changes for the Yachts are intentional, right?
- Since I replaced the rigging on the US_Brig47 as per your request, I am also applying the RN_Brig stats to her
- Why could we no longer repaint between the HMS_Indefatigable and FR_Boussole?

1) Yes, the sail changes are intentional. Quite a few ships had both rey_a# and rey_b# assigned to use emblemed sails for reeflines, but it's not strictly accurate for every ship, so many should actually only have rey_b# on the GeraldSails lines. I actually meant to fix this for more ships, but forgot.

2) Thanks, I forgot about the stats needing to be changed.

3) I made the Indy show up in periods 4 and 5, and the Boussole in 3 and 4, based on their respective paint schemes.
Allowing repaints means that in periods 3 and 5, you could potentially bring in a ship which doesn't belong in the period.
A better solution would be to give the Boussole a Napoleonic repaint (probably the red/black stripes), but I didn't want to go through all that hassle.

One more thing: I noticed some ships seem to be given larger boarding location models than necessary, so I might go through and make a few changes to have boarding locations match the size of the actual ships where possible.
Would this mess up any quest events for particular ships?

Here is a british frigate with white lower masts, though she is still the standard black/yellow scheme. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ig_'Orquijo',_18_guns,_8th._February_1805.jpg
The vessel it is supposed to depict was a captured Hebe-derived french frigate, and in the painting it is a typical wall-sided British Frigate, but it is accurate enough overall to suggest that the artist simply hadn't seen the ship in question, and had to make do with another to represent her. So it shouldn't be too big of a deal to have British vessels with white lower masts.

Thanks for showing that!
This reminds me: could you do me a favour and check that all of your ships in the game (2.5 WIP 3) have the desired mast colours?
I just want to be sure, as I remember seeing screenshots of some of your ships with different coloured masts to those used in the latest game version.

However, the Brits didn't have all the same types of vessels as the Americans. Baltimore clippers and the PDN and such should still be strictly American.

The PDN is still exclusive to the US, I made sure of that. Do you have any other comments on the changes listed in the Excel file?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

1) Yes, the sail changes are intentional. Quite a few ships had both rey_a# and rey_b# assigned to use emblemed sails for reeflines, but it's not strictly accurate for every ship, so many should actually only have rey_b# on the GeraldSails lines. I actually meant to fix this for more ships, but forgot.

Thanks! Just wanted to make sure.

3) I made the Indy show up in periods 4 and 5, and the Boussole in 3 and 4, based on their respective paint schemes.
Allowing repaints means that in periods 3 and 5, you could potentially bring in a ship which doesn't belong in the period.
A better solution would be to give the Boussole a Napoleonic repaint (probably the red/black stripes), but I didn't want to go through all that hassle.

If the player wants to bring in a non-period ship, would that really be such a problem? Up to them, no? As long as they don't show up without player action.

One more thing: I noticed some ships seem to be given larger boarding location models than necessary, so I might go through and make a few changes to have boarding locations match the size of the actual ships where possible.
Would this mess up any quest events for particular ships?

Pretty much all quest code is written with specific quest decks used and not the ones from ships_init.c .
Changing the decks may result in mismatch between the deck really in use by the ship and the one used in the quest, but that wouldn't break anything.
The only exceptions would be:
1. Standard storyline opening tutorial with a different starting ship: This isn't working right at the moment and will need to be fixed for Beta 3 anyway.
2. First Contact storyline encounter with Davy Jones: I wrote this to work on any ship deck. If I did a good job, swapping out deck assignments makes no difference.

So long story short: I can see no harm in changing the assignments.