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Solved Ship Cannons "Realistic" Statistics

A brig is a 29 meter long hull with 22 cannons. The Amsterdam is a 39 meter hull with 40-18 ponders. Not only longer but wider and taller. The Wicked Wench is 42 meters long. The HMS Unicorn is 42 meters long, is a real ship, and carries 32-9s. These ships are 3-4 times the size of a brig but you think they should not even have twice as many guns of the same caliber.

Here is a good match. The Postillionen is a real frigate of 40 meters that carries 20-12s. If a brig should carry 18s then the Postillionen should carry 24s. Following that logic means that the HMS Victory should be carrying the Flying Dutchmans cannons.
 
So what should we equip the brigs with? Other than NOT what they're set up now?
CANNON_TYPE_LONG_LBS12 sound about right? With MaxCaliber of 9, perhaps, allowing for an upgrade to 18?
Still much less than the CANNON_TYPE_CARRONADE_LBS24 that apparently they are equipped with now.
 
Hylie Pistof said:
A brig is a 29 meter long hull with 22 cannons. The Amsterdam is a 39 meter hull with 40-18 ponders. Not only longer but wider and taller. The Wicked Wench is 42 meters long. The HMS Unicorn is 42 meters long, is a real ship, and carries 32-9s. These ships are 3-4 times the size of a brig but you think they should not even have twice as many guns of the same caliber.

Here is a good match. The Postillionen is a real frigate of 40 meters that carries 20-12s. If a brig should carry 18s then the Postillionen should carry 24s. Following that logic means that the HMS Victory should be carrying the Flying Dutchmans cannons.
Click to expand...
Does this take into consideration that the cannons weight twice as much as carronades? So a ship carrying 9lb cannons could potentially carry 18lb carronades.
That's the point of the mix-up with brigs using 24lb carronades; we're assuming that they should actually only be allowed to carry up to 18lb carronades.
 
^ what Armada said. I don't know I think the current max calibers are fine using ya'lls system, except for the mis matches. puting a CARRONADE_LBS18 instead of the 24 that's on there.

>Hylie: Yeah that ship in paticular was the Brigantine (... or crap or was it the privateer Brig, I forget) Whatever, you know what I mean :p
You know what we need to help our thinking? RUM! :cheers
 
Aw I wuz going off on a rant because the brig hull is long and narrow. If you look at the bottom in GMViewer you will see that it has a strong taper at both the front and rear. It is built for speed but has no volume or displacement. Compare it to corvette47. That ship is only a little longer at 33 meters but is much wider with not nearly as much taper. Then look at its stats in shipsinit.c. It looks to me to have at least 3 times the volume but only twice the capacity, if that. That is why I call the brigs fantasy ships. Their internal volume is probably closer to the ketchnavy than a frigate.
 
Long story short: Brigs 9 lbs max and defaulting to 12 lbs carronades sounds somewhat believable-like then?
 
Ya. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. They are mainly a pirate ship so do need big guns. They need to be redesigned with better hulls to support said bigger guns.
 
We'll do that then. At least they'll be far toned down from what they were. :shrug
 
Carronade 12 lbs set for:
Brig1
BrigRoyal
Brig2
US_Brig47 (had Carronade 24 lbs)
Brigantina1 (had Carronade 24 lbs)
PiratBrig50 (had Carronade 24 lbs)
RN_Brig (had Carronade 24 lbs)
HMS_Speedy (had Carronade 18 lbs and MaxCaliber 6; kept MaxCaliber the same)

I think that about covers it. Are there any other really weird ones?
 
Hylie Pistof said:
POTC ships used to be grossly overgunned like COAS is, but over time the size of the guns, especially on the small ships, has been reduced to something more believable. The problem was that the big ships were given their proper guns and then found themselves outgunned by rowboats. Bottom line, you want big guns get a big ship.
Click to expand...

This is something I have looked into again for GOF 2, now small ships will only be able to mount 4ibs with the odd occasion where they are generated with the ability to mount 8ibs. The larger the ship the bigger the calibure that can be mounted. But COAS was massively overpowered in the stock and the early mods, over time that improved with CMV 3.2 and then moved on into GOF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and now in GOF 2 the calibures are much more believable. But i'm not fully finished looking at the ships_init.c file and will be making more changes to stats as I go along.

What would be nice would be to stop specific ships from been able to mount culverines, since these are double the weight of cannons. This feature/fix on its own would drastically improve sea battles and bring to make you think more strategically and if the same could be done in POTC, it would also do the same for that game aswell.
 
Armada said:
OK, well I've made a few changes to try to balance out the 'average quality' a bit more. See below (copied/pasted straight from Excel; very cool trick :cheeky):
View attachment 11880

The whole "value for money" thing just doesn't seem right to me, but I can't figure out why. Do we want all the ships to be 100% value for money, or is the variation a good thing?
Click to expand...

I think if you want it to be realistic, then the following is what I would focus on and then base the other stats around those.

Pick what the nations did to improve there abilities, like the Spanish transported more goods and had large Galleons that was also there MOW's. English made ships that required less crew but was faster and more agile but also could mount high calibure guns to equal that of their enemies. Pirates, removed all the things that wasn't needed, added more guns (not needed so change that to higher max calibure) they also added more sails for better speed and because of removed the sleeping quarters and other things this made room for more cargo, so bigger capacities. Overall this reduced the ships weight, but made it more dangerous in battles.
 
Luke159 said:
What would be nice would be to stop specific ships from been able to mount culverines, since these are double the weight of cannons. This feature/fix on its own would drastically improve sea battles and bring to make you think more strategically and if the same could be done in POTC, it would also do the same for that game aswell.
Click to expand...
Is that sort-of the same idea as to allow a 9lbs MaxCaliber ship to install ONLY 9lbs Long Guns OR 9lbs Carronades, but never more?
Eg. remove the "one cannon type equals twice the other cannon type" distinction? I'm not even sure where that comes from; is there a historical basis for that?
 
No what I mean is a Lugger with 12 4ibs culverines is unrealistic, making it so the Lugger can only mount 4ibs cannons would be far more realistic, and if the upgrade is done to increase the maximum calibure then the Lugger can mount 8ibs cannons, no culverines though.
 
I'm confused. As I understand it a ship with a MaxCaliber of 4 should be able to mount 4lbs Long Guns or 8lbs Carronades.
Should that be changed to be a maximum of 4lb Long Guns or 4lbs Carronades?
 
Doesn't POTC use cannon, long guns and Carronades?

What I was hopping was a way to stop the Lugger for example ever been able to mount long guns, simple reason behind it is they are much heavier than your standard cannons. For COAS we only have cannons and culverines, so I want to stop small ships from been able to mount culverines, but still able to mount the maximum calibure cannon. Since you have carronades though this is pointless to do in POTC since they are lighter than cannons hence the reason for them taking over from cannon and culverines in the end.
 
PotC only has Long Guns and Carronades. The one is twice as heavy as the other.
Does CoAS have two or three cannon types?
 
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