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Pirates of the Caribbean: Community Prequel Script

ah ah ah! i happen to have been on the HMS Victory, and they WHERE removable benches for the stern chasers in Nelson's cabin!
 
CHARACTER LIST SCRIPT


FROM EXISTING MOVIES

Sparrow (duh)

Beckett

Mercer

Gibbs

Annamaria

Barbossa

Mr. Cotton w/tongue

Davy Jones

Tia Dalma

Jone's Crew

POSSIBLE NEW CHARACTERS

Admiral Henry Edwards- Becketts top Naval Commander

Morgan- Jacks original first mate

Jr. Post Captain Porter- First mate of the Endevour

Mr. Roberts- an EIC agent, not near as trustworthy or good as Mercer.

More ideas as they pop into my head.
 
<!--quoteo(post=214480:date=Sep 16 2007, 01:41 PM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Sep 16 2007, 01:41 PM) [snapback]214480[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ah ah ah! i happen to have been on the HMS Victory, and they WHERE removable benches for the stern chasers in Nelson's cabin!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have read four books that have said in some different wording that stern chasere WERE common in the captains cabin, and were often incorporated as part of the furnishings, tables were suspended across them, and benches covered the chasers. And countless other ways. Either way, Commodore you were right the Pearl doesnt have stern chasers, but i was right that they are sometimes concealed in the cabin. Look at the back of the flying dutchman, there are two perfect little gunports that can be seen poking out from below the window of the captains cabin. I will look into that idea, i bought the guide, and i can look closer at it.

Chao.
 
<!--quoteo(post=214270:date=Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM) [snapback]214270[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Prisoners vs Slaves:</b>
Lets weight these two options against each other, trying to decide which would be best. Personally I would still opt for the slaves for several reasons. The reason for the prisoners would be because slaves would be too controversial. But I don't see what is controversial about it, provided that we show in the film that slavery is bad, which we do through Jack Sparrow's good deed. Also: Slaves are bound to get the sympathy of the audience because slavery is bad.

On the other hand with prisoners the audience will assume that they deserve to be prisoners because they'll have done something wrong. Therefore the prisoners would not get the sympathy of the audience. To gain the sympathy of the audience after all, we would need to explain why these people do not deserve to be prisoners to the audience, which would require screentime which would not be nescessary with the slaves.

There are things in the PotC films that you would never expect to see in a Disney film. How about Johnny Depp's weird performance? Or the prisoner getting his eyes picked out by a raven in the opening scene of DMC? Or the religious guy in DMC that is brutally slaughtered by Davy Jones? Or the mass-hangings during the opening scene of AWE where women and even a child are hung. Obviously there already is quite some controversial stuff in the PotC films and Disney allows it to happen because they know PotC is successful and they know taking the risk will pay off.

Also what I suggested before: Jack Sparrow first meets those slaves living peacefully in Ivory Coast in their own village, but then witnesses them being captured. We can then show Jack's ambiguity by having Jack flee for his life instead of valiantly trying to save these people. Next time Jack sees these people, it is at the dock of the African town and he is charged with transporting them to the Caribbean. We don't actually need to state that they are slaves though. We just see them being captured first, then we see them being at the dock to be transported. The audience can then make up their own minds on whether they're slaves or prisoners. In any case: This will explain Jack's sympathy for these people and explain why he will later set them free.

Tia Dalma can be among the villagers. Of course, in the case of Tia Dalma, I think she lets herself be captured on purpose and that she could have evaded being captured just as easily. However, she wants to use Jack for some mysterious purpose, but for that she needs Jack and her to go to the Caribbean. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone has commented on this but I like this idea as a way to settle the slavery question. I didn't think that it was a very big deal anyway, but this does play on the audience sympathies.
As far as Tia is concerned, of course she could have easily escaped so there has to be some hidden agenda she has to allow herself to be captured.

<!--quoteo(post=214270:date=Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM) [snapback]214270[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>The ship-to-ship battle:</b>
For a good ship-to-ship battle you don't just need to have nice visual effects. You also need to have a good side and a bad side. The audience must be rooting for someone to win. With Mercer's suggestion of Davy Jones sinking an EITC fleet, the audience does not care about either Davy Jones or the EITC winning. Jack is indebted to Davy Jones, so both Jack and the audience with him will rather be rid of him. But the EITC are bad guys as well, so the audience doesn't want them to win either. Basically it would just be a diversion for Jack Sparrow to escape. We <i>can</i> put this in the film, but it doesn't really make sense to show it up close. We could show it from afar while Jack escapes. If we <i>would</i> show it up close, it would just be visual effects and spectacle just for the sake of having visual effects and spectacle without it actually contributing anything to the story. And the audience won't care about who wins anyway... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

I still think we should leave the REAL amazing ship-to-ship battle for the sequel to AWE. Although we can give a small taster in the prequel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we do have a sequel, yes. Are we all in agreement to try to push for a sequel to AWE?
 
<!--quoteo(post=214494:date=Sep 16 2007, 05:58 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 16 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]214494[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=214270:date=Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM) [snapback]214270[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Prisoners vs Slaves:</b>
Lets weight these two options against each other, trying to decide which would be best. Personally I would still opt for the slaves for several reasons. The reason for the prisoners would be because slaves would be too controversial. But I don't see what is controversial about it, provided that we show in the film that slavery is bad, which we do through Jack Sparrow's good deed. Also: Slaves are bound to get the sympathy of the audience because slavery is bad.

On the other hand with prisoners the audience will assume that they deserve to be prisoners because they'll have done something wrong. Therefore the prisoners would not get the sympathy of the audience. To gain the sympathy of the audience after all, we would need to explain why these people do not deserve to be prisoners to the audience, which would require screentime which would not be nescessary with the slaves.

There are things in the PotC films that you would never expect to see in a Disney film. How about Johnny Depp's weird performance? Or the prisoner getting his eyes picked out by a raven in the opening scene of DMC? Or the religious guy in DMC that is brutally slaughtered by Davy Jones? Or the mass-hangings during the opening scene of AWE where women and even a child are hung. Obviously there already is quite some controversial stuff in the PotC films and Disney allows it to happen because they know PotC is successful and they know taking the risk will pay off.

Also what I suggested before: Jack Sparrow first meets those slaves living peacefully in Ivory Coast in their own village, but then witnesses them being captured. We can then show Jack's ambiguity by having Jack flee for his life instead of valiantly trying to save these people. Next time Jack sees these people, it is at the dock of the African town and he is charged with transporting them to the Caribbean. We don't actually need to state that they are slaves though. We just see them being captured first, then we see them being at the dock to be transported. The audience can then make up their own minds on whether they're slaves or prisoners. In any case: This will explain Jack's sympathy for these people and explain why he will later set them free.

Tia Dalma can be among the villagers. Of course, in the case of Tia Dalma, I think she lets herself be captured on purpose and that she could have evaded being captured just as easily. However, she wants to use Jack for some mysterious purpose, but for that she needs Jack and her to go to the Caribbean. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone has commented on this but I like this idea as a way to settle the slavery question. I didn't think that it was a very big deal anyway, but this does play on the audience sympathies.
As far as Tia is concerned, of course she could have easily escaped so there has to be some hidden agenda she has to allow herself to be captured.

<!--quoteo(post=214270:date=Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 14 2007, 07:56 AM) [snapback]214270[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>The ship-to-ship battle:</b>
For a good ship-to-ship battle you don't just need to have nice visual effects. You also need to have a good side and a bad side. The audience must be rooting for someone to win. With Mercer's suggestion of Davy Jones sinking an EITC fleet, the audience does not care about either Davy Jones or the EITC winning. Jack is indebted to Davy Jones, so both Jack and the audience with him will rather be rid of him. But the EITC are bad guys as well, so the audience doesn't want them to win either. Basically it would just be a diversion for Jack Sparrow to escape. We <i>can</i> put this in the film, but it doesn't really make sense to show it up close. We could show it from afar while Jack escapes. If we <i>would</i> show it up close, it would just be visual effects and spectacle just for the sake of having visual effects and spectacle without it actually contributing anything to the story. And the audience won't care about who wins anyway... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

I still think we should leave the REAL amazing ship-to-ship battle for the sequel to AWE. Although we can give a small taster in the prequel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we do have a sequel, yes. Are we all in agreement to try to push for a sequel to AWE?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but lets work on the prequel first.
 
Agreed. I'm just suggesting that possibly the action in the prequel will be influenced by whether there is a sequel agreed too or not, such as the intensity of ship battles.
 
<!--quoteo(post=214493:date=Sep 16 2007, 01:09 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Commodore John Paul Jones @ Sep 16 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]214493[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yargh! Morgan I envy you... I wanna see the <i>Victory</i>!!! :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i've been on the HMS Warrior too, one of the first steam-powered fully-iron ships. there both in Portsmouth, in case you didn't know.
 
<!--quoteo(post=214502:date=Sep 16 2007, 10:45 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 16 2007, 10:45 PM) [snapback]214502[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agreed. I'm just suggesting that possibly the action in the prequel will be influenced by whether there is a sequel agreed too or not, such as the intensity of ship battles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this should have realistic sea battles, then they become more and more unrealistic finally leading up to the Maelstrom in AWE so the sequel should have an unrealistic battle.
 
That's an original way of putting it. Realistic to unrealistic. I'm with you, lets have some fantastic realistic sea battles and save the sublime for the sequel. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
I've been remiss in not contributing to the discussion since the very start; I've had a little read of what has gone before but apologies if anything asked or covered below has already been addressed satisfactorily.
Ahem...a few comments on what I discern are recent ideas:

1. I agree with Pieter that Slaves, whilst gaining the sympathy from the audience is still too controversial to do. I mean who are the slaves? Black Africans, Indians (it is the HEIC in the films after all...African slavery was under the Royal Africa Company, though at the time of the films in the late 18th century the Royal Africa Co. had ceased to be...and had given up slavery a long time before), Europeans (mostly Irish I think if memory serves)?

As an aside: Does anyone actually know what the trade routes, cargos and stop-overs for HEIC was? I gather they had to go around Africa (St. Helena was once a HEIC possession for example) but would they have made the huge journey to the West Indies for trade?

2. Prisoners as cargo. A better option I think, a la Captain Blood, prisoners sentenced to bondage or debt bondage and being sent to the West Indian colonies. Could have some pirates amongst the prisoners as a way of corrupting or coercing Jack to turn his back on the authorities. One possibility for his turning could be a scenario set during a fierce storm; the ship being too heavy and the HEIC officer on board the Wicked Wench demanding Sparrow jettison the 'cargo' to stay afloat...

Has anyone given thought to a timeline? Just how long after Jack loses the Wicked Wench does he seek Jones for it to be raised?
We know from the third film that Jones, at one point as a human was on the Council (possibly as King?) but unless we work out whether Jack met him whilst Jones was still a man (and was thus a party the enslavement of Calypso in human form, which I would think must precede Jones' taking the Dutchman as the love story/affair of him and the forgetful Goddess makes no sense otherwise.) or whether Jones was already a monster when Jack encountered him (and therefore Jack only 'heard' about the Calypso/Tia Dalma stuff). Was Jack 'rescued' by Jones and delivered the choice as given to all dying seamen, but for Sparrow to make an alternative deal?
To my mind the Pearl looks as if it spent some time under the waves, and was not raised immediately after its unfortunate sinking. The dark wood gives the impression of being not merely the product of burning (if that is indeed what occurred at the time of it's demise) but the effect of wood being submerged in water for a lengthy period (years easily). At least in my experience in the archaeological excavations I've taken part in, old waterlogged wood takes on a significantly darker colour than other wood. Thus, I'd argue that it took time for Sparrow to encounter Jones and make his deal. Ok, some might argue 'he painted the ship black to represent his turning to the dark side of the force' or some such, but that, I maintain, is the product of woolly-thinking and a weak Disney-like idea.

All of which leads to my final question of when and how Jack turns pirate:
1. Father is a scallywag...like father like son. Inevitable, really. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jackhat.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":j2" border="0" alt="jackhat.gif" />
2. Corrupted by Pirates he encounters as prisoners (either in gaol or on his ship).
3. As per anecdotal accounts of real pirates...rebelled against bad usage by the authorities.
4. Post-Wicked Wench, trying to make ends meet, he ends up in Singapore and meets a few unsavoury characters from the Council say...maybe his old Dad. (I appreciate this idea is a little of 1 and 2 above).
 
<!--quoteo(post=214533:date=Sep 17 2007, 09:57 AM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Sep 17 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]214533[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone given thought to a timeline? Just how long after Jack loses the Wicked Wench does he seek Jones for it to be raised?
We know from the third film that Jones, at one point as a human was on the Council (possibly as King?) but unless we work out whether Jack met him whilst Jones was still a man (and was thus a party the enslavement of Calypso in human form, which I would think must precede Jones' taking the Dutchman as the love story/affair of him and the forgetful Goddess makes no sense otherwise.) or whether Jones was already a monster when Jack encountered him (and therefore Jack only 'heard' about the Calypso/Tia Dalma stuff). Was Jack 'rescued' by Jones and delivered the choice as given to all dying seamen, but for Sparrow to make an alternative deal?
To my mind the Pearl looks as if it spent some time under the waves, and was not raised immediately after its unfortunate sinking. The dark wood gives the impression of being not merely the product of burning (if that is indeed what occurred at the time of it's demise) but the effect of wood being submerged in water for a lengthy period (years easily). At least in my experience in the archaeological excavations I've taken part in, old waterlogged wood takes on a significantly darker colour than other wood. Thus, I'd argue that it took time for Sparrow to encounter Jones and make his deal. Ok, some might argue 'he painted the ship black to represent his turning to the dark side of the force' or some such, but that, I maintain, is the product of woolly-thinking and a weak Disney-like idea.

All of which leads to my final question of when and how Jack turns pirate:
1. Father is a scallywag...like father like son. Inevitable, really. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jackhat.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":j2" border="0" alt="jackhat.gif" />
2. Corrupted by Pirates he encounters as prisoners (either in gaol or on his ship).
3. As per anecdotal accounts of real pirates...rebelled against bad usage by the authorities.
4. Post-Wicked Wench, trying to make ends meet, he ends up in Singapore and meets a few unsavoury characters from the Council say...maybe his old Dad. (I appreciate this idea is a little of 1 and 2 above).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good points you hit on and I bought up before, especially about the timeline concerning when Jack made the deal with Jones and the Pearle was raised and how long after it was sunk did that take place? The raising has to occur when Beckett and his fleet are in the area, since the thinking is that Jack also struck a deal to have Jones help him escape Beckett's fleet.
Was Jack dying when Jones came along? Then that would mean that the Wench had just been sunk by Beckett which would pretty much establish the timeline right there, unless Jack met up with Beckett's fleet at some later date after the Pearle was raised and needed Jones to escape.

As for the slaves, wasn't Jack branded a pirate by Beckett when he refused to transport them? If that is Jack's accepted past, how can it be changed to prisoners?

And lastly, good to have you back, Cpt. Fabris. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=214543:date=Sep 17 2007, 03:36 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 17 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]214543[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=214533:date=Sep 17 2007, 09:57 AM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Sep 17 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]214533[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone given thought to a timeline? Just how long after Jack loses the Wicked Wench does he seek Jones for it to be raised?
We know from the third film that Jones, at one point as a human was on the Council (possibly as King?) but unless we work out whether Jack met him whilst Jones was still a man (and was thus a party the enslavement of Calypso in human form, which I would think must precede Jones' taking the Dutchman as the love story/affair of him and the forgetful Goddess makes no sense otherwise.) or whether Jones was already a monster when Jack encountered him (and therefore Jack only 'heard' about the Calypso/Tia Dalma stuff). Was Jack 'rescued' by Jones and delivered the choice as given to all dying seamen, but for Sparrow to make an alternative deal?
To my mind the Pearl looks as if it spent some time under the waves, and was not raised immediately after its unfortunate sinking. The dark wood gives the impression of being not merely the product of burning (if that is indeed what occurred at the time of it's demise) but the effect of wood being submerged in water for a lengthy period (years easily). At least in my experience in the archaeological excavations I've taken part in, old waterlogged wood takes on a significantly darker colour than other wood. Thus, I'd argue that it took time for Sparrow to encounter Jones and make his deal. Ok, some might argue 'he painted the ship black to represent his turning to the dark side of the force' or some such, but that, I maintain, is the product of woolly-thinking and a weak Disney-like idea.

All of which leads to my final question of when and how Jack turns pirate:
1. Father is a scallywag...like father like son. Inevitable, really. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jackhat.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":j2" border="0" alt="jackhat.gif" />
2. Corrupted by Pirates he encounters as prisoners (either in gaol or on his ship).
3. As per anecdotal accounts of real pirates...rebelled against bad usage by the authorities.
4. Post-Wicked Wench, trying to make ends meet, he ends up in Singapore and meets a few unsavoury characters from the Council say...maybe his old Dad. (I appreciate this idea is a little of 1 and 2 above).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good points you hit on and I bought up before, especially about the timeline concerning when Jack made the deal with Jones and the Pearle was raised and how long after it was sunk did that take place? The raising has to occur when Beckett and his fleet are in the area, since the thinking is that Jack also struck a deal to have Jones help him escape Beckett's fleet.
Was Jack dying when Jones came along? Then that would mean that the Wench had just been sunk by Beckett which would pretty much establish the timeline right there, unless Jack met up with Beckett's fleet at some later date after the Pearle was raised and needed Jones to escape.

As for the slaves, wasn't Jack branded a pirate by Beckett when he refused to transport them? If that is Jack's accepted past, how can it be changed to prisoners?

And lastly, good to have you back, Cpt. Fabris. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ahoy matey. T'is nice to be reading again...least for the moment (much work on the horizon...ahh, my time is short).

My point on Slaves v Prisoners is that Prisoners in the period often were made to be Slaves and shipp'd off to the Plantations. The Authorities considered it more humane then Capital Punishment, but the effect weren't much different. Ergo, the Identity and Ethnicity etc of our Slaves/Prisoners is the Question. I ain't too bothered by what appear'd in a Novel or comic Book outside of the Films...the literary Creations of Outsiders are rarely taken as 'canon' since only a small share of the potential Audience will have any familiarity with them. Methinks non-canon ideas ought not be considered a Bar from crafting our Tale. (I am of course aware of Sparrow's 'P' brand, but I don't recall mention of Slaves in the Films. And we don't know precisely when Sparrow was branded as a Pirate, whether upon rebelling or at a later point when captured.)

I'd think it undeniable that the Wicked Wench sank, means clearly Jack didn't escape Beckett's Fleet, and was either captured and branded but escaped, or was presumed dead by Beckett, at least initially. As I understand it, Jones 'raised' the newly christened 'Black Pearl'. I suppose the nature of Jack's deal and relationship to Jones is what needs deciding:

1. Was Jack on his Deathbed, Hammock, Deck(?) and given the proposition?
2. Did Jack survive the sinking of his Ship (presuming he was on it at the time!) and then find Jones and barter for his help in raising it?
So, is the deal about his soul for the Ship, or was the Ship merely a condition of his Deal which at heart was about saving his life? If the latter...then would Sparrow not already be effectively immortal even before encountering the Aztec Chest? Jones' wouldn't be happy if he croak'd elsewhere than the Sea and he didn't get his soul.
 
<!--quoteo(post=214543:date=Sep 17 2007, 09:36 AM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 17 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]214543[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=214533:date=Sep 17 2007, 09:57 AM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Sep 17 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]214533[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone given thought to a timeline? Just how long after Jack loses the Wicked Wench does he seek Jones for it to be raised?
We know from the third film that Jones, at one point as a human was on the Council (possibly as King?) but unless we work out whether Jack met him whilst Jones was still a man (and was thus a party the enslavement of Calypso in human form, which I would think must precede Jones' taking the Dutchman as the love story/affair of him and the forgetful Goddess makes no sense otherwise.) or whether Jones was already a monster when Jack encountered him (and therefore Jack only 'heard' about the Calypso/Tia Dalma stuff). Was Jack 'rescued' by Jones and delivered the choice as given to all dying seamen, but for Sparrow to make an alternative deal?
To my mind the Pearl looks as if it spent some time under the waves, and was not raised immediately after its unfortunate sinking. The dark wood gives the impression of being not merely the product of burning (if that is indeed what occurred at the time of it's demise) but the effect of wood being submerged in water for a lengthy period (years easily). At least in my experience in the archaeological excavations I've taken part in, old waterlogged wood takes on a significantly darker colour than other wood. Thus, I'd argue that it took time for Sparrow to encounter Jones and make his deal. Ok, some might argue 'he painted the ship black to represent his turning to the dark side of the force' or some such, but that, I maintain, is the product of woolly-thinking and a weak Disney-like idea.

All of which leads to my final question of when and how Jack turns pirate:
1. Father is a scallywag...like father like son. Inevitable, really. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/jackhat.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":j2" border="0" alt="jackhat.gif" />
2. Corrupted by Pirates he encounters as prisoners (either in gaol or on his ship).
3. As per anecdotal accounts of real pirates...rebelled against bad usage by the authorities.
4. Post-Wicked Wench, trying to make ends meet, he ends up in Singapore and meets a few unsavoury characters from the Council say...maybe his old Dad. (I appreciate this idea is a little of 1 and 2 above).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good points you hit on and I bought up before, especially about the timeline concerning when Jack made the deal with Jones and the Pearle was raised and how long after it was sunk did that take place? The raising has to occur when Beckett and his fleet are in the area, since the thinking is that Jack also struck a deal to have Jones help him escape Beckett's fleet.
Was Jack dying when Jones came along? Then that would mean that the Wench had just been sunk by Beckett which would pretty much establish the timeline right there, unless Jack met up with Beckett's fleet at some later date after the Pearle was raised and needed Jones to escape.

As for the slaves, wasn't Jack branded a pirate by Beckett when he refused to transport them? If that is Jack's accepted past, how can it be changed to prisoners?

And lastly, good to have you back, Cpt. Fabris. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old Salt, youre the man! you are agreeing with my plan to have the Wench raised by Jones in the vicinity of Becketts fleet, which has retired to repair (like they needed it) and Jones helping Sparrow escape. Youre the man!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
 
I will be drawing up a battle plan for the battle to rescue jack so you can see what i am planning for it. I will upload it shortly.
 
Okay, here is my battle plan guys, please dont want to change it TOO much, because even though it was hastily scrawled, it still took a ton of time, and i dont want to have to re draw it. Now there are two ships the Endevour and the Trinity that have little flags on the back, quite obviously these are the two flagships of the different fleets. Yes, the Endevour has 118 guns, watch that video i posted earlier about becketts death, and pause it right after when he says "Its nothing personal Jack, just good buisness," count the cannons, you should get 55, now that would make the armament 110, and there were also some more deck cannons on top which, actually come to think of it, 120 guns. The only two SOTL's built with that large of armament were the U.S.S. Pennsylvania and the San Felipe (i think) The one that participated in Trafalgar, i cant think for sure off the top of my head if that is it, Commodore enlighten me.

Take note, that the ships names except for the Endevour, Pearl, Dutchman, and Dauntless are tenative and subject to change. (Thats if you guys dont like the names i chose). Also this IS NOT an exact helicopter view of the battle positions, the distances are a little more drawn out.

I have planned that Beckett sends Mercer aboard a fast frigate to intercept the 8 ship fleet approaching fast from the south, by the time the pearl is raised, Beckett has formed a half circle with his ships, and Mercer has arrived with the extra 8 to close the gap. Now Jack was pretty happy that he was going to get the pearl, and escape safely now when the small fleet from the south approaches he says his oddly re-accuring phrase from DMC "Oh, bugger," Then he strikes another deal with Jones who is more than happy to accept, after much debate sparrow reluctantly shaves 3 years off of his 16 year captaincy to have Jones escort the pearl out of the ships. When the other ships form up, Beckett signals the fleet to move forward and destroy the two ships. Seeing a weak point in th circle guarded by two small frigates, Jones orders sparrow to make all sail for it. Mean while, the dutchman rakes the Dauntless while turning hard to starboard, then fires off a devastating broadside at the Amber at point blank range, and de-masts the ship. Now Jones orders the triple guns to open fire on the two frigates about 3/4 of a mile away, and pounds the Oracle to pulp, the Breeze's captain was smart and swung hard to port to avoid most of the fire.. (the pearl opens fire with her bow cannons, and to make up for the speed of jone's triple chasers, Sparrow has HIS guns loaded with bombs. The Oracle, is destroyed. Mean while the 104 gun Trinity fires a broadside at the Dutchman, (which does no good), the dutchman answers back with another broadside which hits the Trinity quarter ways off the port bow. The two ships escape, but the frigates Breeze and Swiftlness (yes, the irony) are sent to chase down the two ships ahead of the fleet. The dutchman zigzaggs firing off a broadside every time she gets another ship in sight. When the pearl is safely away, Jones crew which were placed on the ship to get it under way, teleport back to the dutchman which swings around, and sails in between the two frigates and stops them with two terrible broadsides. Then you see the camera by Jack a bit far away, it is deliberately trying to catch the action. Sparrow is humming to himself at the ships wheel, when the camera suddenly pans to the bow cannons of the Dutchman as they fire, and using visual effects, the camera follows the shot like it follows the bombs in Pearl Harbor, then punch right through the bow of the Trinity which is heading the fleet, and ignite the powder magazine. When the ship explodes the camera is back at jack who flinches when it explodes into a ball of flame, and looks behind. Now you see the dutchman in the distance firing off broadsides at the large fleet. After something else to fill in between the battle and the aftermath we see Beckett who is dirty, and his cloths are ripped, and covered in gunpowder residue. He surveys the damage: All ships except the demasted Requiem, the heavily damaged Triumph, the Dauntless, and the Endevour are a smoldering pile of burning wood. The Endevour limps home with a noticeable list to the port, and without a bowsprit, foremast, and half of the mizzen mast. The Dauntless was SEVERELY raked, her aft galleries arent even recognizeable. And oh yes, Mercer was on the Amber.

Well there is my plan for the planned emmy winning sea battle of the prequel. It is obviously realistic (no maelstroms, kracken or squat) Do you guys think i SHOULD include the Kracken, because it will be nearby because what lifts the Pearl? It sure as hell aint the Force! So just an idea to add.
 
<!--quoteo(post=214552:date=Sep 17 2007, 11:07 AM:name=Cpt Fabris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cpt Fabris @ Sep 17 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]214552[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My point on Slaves v Prisoners is that Prisoners in the period often were made to be Slaves and shipp'd off to the Plantations. The Authorities considered it more humane then Capital Punishment, but the effect weren't much different. Ergo, the Identity and Ethnicity etc of our Slaves/Prisoners is the Question. I ain't too bothered by what appear'd in a Novel or comic Book outside of the Films...the literary Creations of Outsiders are rarely taken as 'canon' since only a small share of the potential Audience will have any familiarity with them. Methinks non-canon ideas ought not be considered a Bar from crafting our Tale. (I am of course aware of Sparrow's 'P' brand, but I don't recall mention of Slaves in the Films. And we don't know precisely when Sparrow was branded as a Pirate, whether upon rebelling or at a later point when captured.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the slave angle came from the screenwriters, but if not then we don't have to married to it since I agree that outside work doesn't have to be taken as gospel.
<!--quoteo(post=214565:date=Sep 17 2007, 04:50 PM:name=Mercer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mercer @ Sep 17 2007, 04:50 PM) [snapback]214565[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Old Salt, youre the man! you are agreeing with my plan to have the Wench raised by Jones in the vicinity of Becketts fleet, which has retired to repair (like they needed it) and Jones helping Sparrow escape. Youre the man!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to repeat it there Mercer, but if that's what you meant then that would make sense. Jones raises the Wench and Beckett immediately attacks (after a moment of suspended disbelief in seeing the ship rising up from the depths <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> ) and Jack cuts the deal with Jones to help him escape and Beckett witnesses first hand Jones destructive power.

Looking forward to reading the battle plan. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=214585:date=Sep 17 2007, 08:18 PM:name=Old Salt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Old Salt @ Sep 17 2007, 08:18 PM) [snapback]214585[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, Mercer, I posted and then saw that you posted as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know it would be more like 5 minutes of suspended disbelief. The Kracken is going to be needed to raise the pearl because Jones sure as heck doesnt know how to use the force. Then Everything plays as planned. Did you see the picture i drew up? That has got to be the WORST handwriting i have used for years, i had to hastily srawl it up, and post it today, so it is there as a reference.
 
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