Included in Build Distinguish between different playstyles

[Andouce]

Well it was more for the commissioned officer thing. So instead of having common sailors you have them as models I described above. Both for crew and boarding models. It is more of a personal thing haha. I actually wanted to have it in my story I am using. So it would check if I have selected commissioned officer and that my selected nation is my own (The "personal" option) then I would have the soldier models as described above instead of sailors until of course I decided to join another nation or something and then I assume it automatically changes the models anyway if I remember correctly once gaining first rank or something.

@ Below, Cheers my good man. I appreciate it and I imagine it should work!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You might get that working by opening PROGRAM\Periods.c and finding:

if(CheckAttribute(pchar, "professionalnavy") && iNation != PERSONAL_NATION)

Replace with:

if(CheckAttribute(pchar, "professionalnavy"))

 

[Grey Roger]

For Navy playstyle:

It gives you something to do and pirates will always pop up. Ofcourse enemy ships should also be added. We might be able to add some quests to the different playstyles, but having the navy officers at least have a counter of how many ships he sunk in a period would give him something to do by default and if you base the promotions on that. So say you need to sink/capture at least 3 ships in the next 3 months and you do that its fine, if you capture less you are demoted, and if you capture more then say 5 you are promoted. That wouldn't be hard to make and would ensure that players have something to do in the playstyle very easy.

That's about all players of this style have to do anyway, but I still say they shouldn't be demoted if they can't find anything to attack; demotion should be for serious misconduct.

As I recall, you wanted the player to lose reputation if he turns down a governor's ship-hunting quest. Perhaps do that, or cost some relation points, for commissioned officers only. For anybody else, it's an offer to earn some extra money which you can take or leave as you see fit; for a commissioned officer, it's an order and you will obey it or else!

For Merchant playstyle:

True, so merchants shouldn't be a problem and all merchant ships should be neutral? how does that sound? Also attacking merchants from a enemy nation is penaltized cause they will show up as neutral for you.

Sounds about right. You can read the Wikipedia article about Letter of Marque yourself and decide how to interpret it for game purposes, but the way I understand it, if you don't have a letter of marque then attacking another ship is piracy. Defence against someone who is attacking you is allowed, though. Merchants therefore shouldn't be attacking each other unless at least one of them has a letter of marque, which in this thread about separating different playstyles means he's not a merchant any more, he's a privateer. (It also brings the whole idea of separating the game into different playstyles into question because merchants could get letters of marque specifically so that they could legally take prizes. The East India Company got letters of marque for its ships for exactly that reason, meaning if the East India Company is ever written into the game, a player who signs up is simultaneously a privateer and a merchant!)

Cause they didnt wake up drunk on the deck of a ship finding themself in service of a pirate but they choose to do some actual fair work.

That's true for anybody except pirates. Maybe give pirates a morale penalty for crew hired from any tavern except one in a pirate port, and give a penalty to everyone else who hires crew at a pirate tavern.

For Privateer playstyle:

You want to have some sort of reward for playing as this type and I can see the gouvenor making an exception for you, or at least a discount cause you are known. The tavern I tought was just a nice little thing, mostly cause the tavernkeeper likes privateers cause the crew gets drunk there often.

A privateer is effectively half way between a commissioned officer and a free captain. The benefits of being a privateer are that you're not subject to naval orders (however that will work in the game), you are allowed to hoist a false flag so you can try to enter a hostile port and trade there, you have the option of getting several letters of marque and being rewarded by more than one nation, you can pay the crew by dividing plunder with all that implies for morale. If you play it right, it's already probably going to be the most profitable playstyle.

For Pirate playstyle:

The pirate store would give you a discount because you are one of the pirates and you maybe help them a bit too. Doesn't the pirate leader require you to do tasks for the pirates? Besides that they get to know you better. A shopkeeper will never give you the best prices instantly, the commerce skills etc are so you get better at haggling, but I think this would add something too cause it would make you feel more at home at the pirates and there is an advantage of going to a pirate port.

The main advantage of going to a pirate port is that you can definitely get in without being recognised and the shops definitely will trade with you! You can't trade anywhere else, which means you accept their prices or you don't trade at all, and that means they're going to fleece you. They'll fleece any non-pirate who shows up even more thoroughly. So pirates don't get a discount at pirate shops but everyone else gets penalised, if they're even allowed to trade at all. (I suppose one way to implement that is to make all prices worse, then give a discount to pirates, so the net effect is the same.) Also see above, you could make it that pirates only get good crew at a pirate port.

 

[andyandy]

in designing playstyle and interaction with establishments of different trades, a classic game comes to mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taikou_Risshiden_V

 

[Levis]

Okay taking all new things in consideration.
Keep in mind we need to find a balance between: what we can do with the limited resources we have vs what is fun to play vs what is realistic.
I personally think its good to have 4 distinctive playstyles and a neutral playstyle

Navy Officer
Enabled by: Talking to the admiral who is either in the navy HQ or at the gouvernor for that nation
Advantages
- You dont have to pay salary or food or rum rations
- Ships are free at the shipyard but you can only pick navy ships, and they will appear based on your rank in the navy
- You will get ships and officers when you get promoted
- Each X months you are set a specific quota of ships/towns you need to capture/sink. When completing this you get promoted.
Disadvantages
- You can only repair your ship in shipyards which aren't from your serving nation.
- You wont get any money for captured ships in the shipyard
- You can't hire officers in the taverns etc
- Goods in stores will be extra expensive cause you aren't a trader.
- When caught smuggling you are branded a pirate instantly
- Pirates wont trade with you at all.

Merchant
Enabled by: Gaining trust from the merchants and buying yourself into the merchants guild
Advantages
- You get a extra bonus in buying and selling goods
- No merchant ship will attack you, even if they are from an enemy nation.
- You will get a goal of making X amount of money in X months. If you pass it you will be promoted (this ties in with the jack sparrow storyline)
- On promotion you can get a ship (one or two titles only) and extra discount. Also some nice items will be given sometimes.
Disadvantages
- You can not fire first. If you attack a ship before it attacks you, you are branded a pirate.
- When caught smuggling you will be branded a pirate instantly
- Pirates are more common to encounter on sea.
- Pirates wont trade with you at all.
- You can only buy merchant ships at the shipyard.

Pirate
Enabled by: Attacking a ship/town without the privaledge to do so
Advantages
- You can use the diplomat
- Pirates are friendly
- Pirates will trade with you
- You can buy and sell whatever ship you want at the shipyard
- You can redeem yourself by paying a lot of money to the gouvernor where you serving first (get you back to neutral playstyle).
Disadvantages
- Crew moral will be lower when hireing crew.
- Everyone is your enemy at the start
- Shipyard will always give you low prices for ships cause they assume its pirated

Privateer
Enabled by: getting a LoM from a gouvernor
Advantages
- You can use the diplomat
- On promotion special weapons are given. When promoted high enough land is given. Highest promotion makes you gouvenor of a town (if we can pull that off).
- If you have only 1 LoM you have the relations of the nation you serve. With more LoMs this is avaraged.
- You can buy and sell whatever ship you want at the shipyard
Disadvantages
- You need to pay the gouvenor a amount of money based on how many ships you sank/captured per X months. This is his share of the plunder.
- You will encounter more warships on the sea from your enemy nations
- Pirates wont trade with you at all

Neutral Playstyle
Enabled by: at the start of when leaving the service somewhere honorbly.
In neutral playstyle you will have your own relations with nations. You can buy and sell all ships but not the higher tier ships. Attacking a ship firrst will still brand you a pirate. You dont have any bonus or penalty at shops and smuggling wont brand you a pirate instantly. Pirates will trade with you but reluctantly. You will fly your personal colours.

---


Doees this sound better? And does it sound a bit balanced?

 

[KillPhil]

- You can only repair your ship in shipyards which aren't from your serving nation.

If this is a speeling mistake, then it is all good^^ But I still think it'd be a nice idea to make extra ship-fittings for each playstyle (which you CAN install, you don't have too).. e.g.:

-Navy: More max crew, less min crew, more cannons (or maybe bigger caliber, since more cannons could get difficult?), less cargo, maybe more HP

- Merchant: Less max crew, less cannons/caliber, more cargo, slightly better speed and acceleration (to make escaping easier)

- Pirate: Less min crew, less max crew (too many pirates will always result in a drunken brawl ) , better endspeed

and privateer being the 'normal' ship stats

AND, one thing: As a navy officer, it could get kinda hard to make money.. do you get money when you get promoted? If not, maybe a slight sum for every promotion or maybe a wage per month would be good, since you have not much ways to earn money as navy captain

 

[Levis]

- You can only repair your ship in shipyards which aren't from your serving nation.

I mean the shipyards which aren't from your nation will only give the option to repair. to get new ships etc you need to go to a shipyard of your own nation.

about the rest, I wish we could include that but I dont know how difficult it will be to add.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Let's start simple, shall we?

 

[Levis]

I think most things I mentioned are relativly simple to implement...

 

[Grey Roger]

Navy Officer:
No need for the quota system, promotion can be handled as normal by your status with your nation. You should not be able to buy any ships at all - you will command the ship to which the navy has assigned you and that is an order!
Repairs should be free at shipyards of your own nation. (And possibly allied nations too - it would be good to have some real difference between allies and neutrals.) Neutral nations will repair the ship to 50% but won't offer upgrades or replacement cannons - they'll make the vessel seaworthy but won't increase its fighting ability.
You should be able to sell captured ships. In fact, naval captains and privateers got their rewards by the same method: prize ships and their cargoes were disposed of by the admiralty court, then the captain and crew got a share of the prize money. The fact that you get considerably less for selling a captured ship represents that share.
Suggestion: if you commit a crime, e.g. get caught smuggling or open fire on a non-hostile ship, you get an instant mutiny. Your first officer is trying to arrest you and take command. If you win, you're now a pirate - it is you who have just mutinied!

Privateer:
I suggest that you can not buy a LoM from a hostile governor, you need to crave forgiveness first. If you have a single LoM then you are aligned to the nation which issued it, just as if you were a Navy Officer. If you give up your LoM and then get another, you change nation to that of the new one. If you have more than one then you become independent.
Prize ships: see Navy Officer. The governor is already getting his cut from the sale of your prize ship so you should not need to pay an additional fee.
If you attack a ship which is not hostile, you get an instant mutiny and become a pirate, the same way as a Navy Officer. You can turn it hostile by hoisting a suitable flag, thus avoiding the mutiny. (Ideally you should hoist the flag of your LoM's nation, especially if you only have one, but I suspect this will be very difficult to implement...)

Neutral:
You start the game aligned to the nation whose flag you first fly. If you start the game with Personal flag or hoist it at any time, you become independent.

Pirate:
Perhaps have Pirate as one of the careers with which you start the game. If you start as a Pirate with a national flag, you start hostile to that nation but others are wary - this way, if all the free-play starts are merged, you can still start the same way as "Brave Black Flag" at the moment, hostile to one nation only. If you start with a pirate flag then you're an all-out pirate, hostile to every nation.

Suggestion: Once you have become independent, either by hoisting a Personal or Pirate flag or by getting multiple LoM's, you can never again be aligned to a nation. Being aligned to a nation means your international relations are those of that nation. If your nation is at war with another, so are you; if your nation then makes peace, your relations with the other revert to Wary; if your nation allies with another, that other is now friendly to you. Commissioned Officers are always aligned to their nation. Privateers with one LoM are aligned to the nation which issued it. If you're independent then your relations rise or fall according to your actions. What that means is that you can't reset all your relations by craving forgiveness from one hostile nation and then buying a LoM - a pirate who is hostile to everyone remains hostile to everyone except the nation that forgave him. If you want to make friends with other nations, you'll need to pay each one of them.

What happens if you have both a Merchant Guild membership and a LoM? Are you a Merchant, a Privateer or some mixture of the two? (Historical note: the East India Company got LoM's for some of its ships so that they could legally take prize ships while still trading as merchants.)

 

[Grey Roger]

AND, one thing: As a navy officer, it could get kinda hard to make money.. do you get money when you get promoted? If not, maybe a slight sum for every promotion or maybe a wage per month would be good, since you have not much ways to earn money as navy captain

You also have considerably fewer expenses. No food or rum, perhaps no repair bills, and the crew remain permanently on salary (which you also don't pay) so you don't have to divide your loot with them every few months.

 

[KillPhil]

You might still wish to have enough money for skillbooks, swords, etc Well, but I see, you can sell ships and goods you captured? Should be enough though

 

[Levis]

For the navy officer there has to be something like orders, because it's hard to make separate quests for it I want to add the quota so you do feel like you are working for someone.

About the merchant/privateer combo I refer to pieters quote.
the same for the idea about mutiny when doing something bad.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What did I say on privateers and merchants again?

What @Grey Roger suggests all sounds pretty good to me.
One thing I do wonder about is hoisting a personal flag and this having an irreversible effect.
This may be a bit too 'harsh' for some players. Perhaps this action and hoisting a pirate flag would require an 'are you sure?' pop up box at least?

 

[Grey Roger]

Suggestion for naval characters:
The governor (or naval HQ, if implemented) can give you three types of order:
. Escort (The naval HQ at Antigua already does this)
. Ship-hunting (Possibly at a different island? Can the "Belleville" quest from the "Assassin" storyline be copied?)
. Nothing specific at this time - you can patrol the Caribbean as you see fit for a month (Again thinking of "Assassin", where there are two occasions when you have no specific quest from the Vice-Admiral and are told to go and amuse yourself at the expense of Spain's enemies, the quest book then updates when it's time to return for the next mission)
Unlike normal escort and ship-hunting missions, the first two are compulsory - they're not requests, they're orders! Upon completion you must return to a governor (or to naval HQ) within a month otherwise you're guilty of failing to report for orders. Likewise, "Nothing specific at this time" will last for a month, then you have another month in which to report for duty or else you're in trouble.

Suggestion for privateers:
If you want to implement a quota for ships taken in a month, this may be the career to do it. The governor is getting his share of your prize money but you have to keep the prizes coming, or at least prove that you're doing good for his nation by harming his enemies. Perhaps the easiest way may be to require a certain increase in your relation with your nation, that way bigger prizes count for more and so do attacks on towns. And here's the catch: if you have two LoM's, you need double the increase; three LoM's, triple the increase; etc. Otherwise one of the governors will cancel your LoM, and if that doesn't bring you within quota (you now only need double instead of triple, for example), another will cancel, until either you are within quota or you run out of LoM's. Also, if you attack a ship belonging to a nation from whom you have a LoM or one of that nation's allies, you lose the LoM as well as any land you gained from that nation - this is worse than failing to meet your quota, this is active treachery. This shouldn't be a problem if you only have one LoM and your relations are tied to those of your nation, but anyone with multiple LoM's had better keep an eye on international relations, especially if they are variable...

Because it occurs to me that a privateer combines some of the advantages of a naval officer with all the advantages of a free captain, and is liable to be the most lucrative career. There need to be risks to go with it, especially if you go for multiple LoM's.

@Pieter Boelen: agreed on the pop-up box as it's irreversible. The point is to prevent someone who's made lots of enemies from simply taking one LoM and resetting all his relations in one go. If you're independent, you have to do it the hard way, one governor at a time.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Levis: I wonder.... How hard would it be to make generic shared "governor", "shipyard owner", "tavern keeper", "blacksmith" and "store owner" dialog files?
The regular name-dependent files could then be reduced to contain ONLY specific quest stuff.
An unfortunate result might be that everybody uses the same lines of text, which would be quite dull and remove a lot of character from the game.

Anyway, the reason for me thinking of this is because we have a lot of ideas lately that deal with these types of characters and probably require adjustments to their dialogs.
But I REALLY don't want to manually edit several hundred files again. Already did that for the governors and that is just asking for trouble.

 

[Levis]

@Levis: I wonder.... How hard would it be to make generic shared "governor", "shipyard owner", "tavern keeper", "blacksmith" and "store owner" dialog files?
The regular name-dependent files could then be reduced to contain ONLY specific quest stuff.
An unfortunate result might be that everybody uses the same lines of text, which would be quite dull and remove a lot of character from the game.

Anyway, the reason for me thinking of this is because we have a lot of ideas lately that deal with these types of characters and probably require adjustments to their dialogs.
But I REALLY don't want to manually edit several hundred files again. Already did that for the governors and that is just asking for trouble.

The shipyard has a shared dialog file already, ad does the blacksmith. The storeowner and tavern owner etc wouldn't be such a problem. Check shipyard.c or tailor.c or so in the dialog files to see it. And check the character init to see how the files are added.

Or check here:
http://www.piratesahoy.net/wiki/new-horizons-Adding-Extra-Dialog-Files/

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The shipyard has a shared dialog file already, ad does the blacksmith. The storeowner and tavern owner etc wouldn't be such a problem. Check shipyard.c or tailor.c or so in the dialog files to see it. And check the character init to see how the files are added.

I know the possibility is there and for the tavern owners it'll probably be simple enough.
The main thing I am wondering about is to move ALL common functionality to a shared file. Though that might be more work than it's worth.

May be especially worthwhile for the governors though, since they have a LOT of that.
But while I'd like the functionality to be common, is there any way to make the dialog texts themselves custom per character?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I have figured out the following things now:

- PRIVATEER: Disable promotion rewards, but keep land gained
- COMMISSIONED: Disable land gained
- COMMISSIONED: Allow free hiring of crew in your own nation taverns
- COMMISSIONED: Disable signing articles

So on my next upload, the Commissioned player type should be a bit more different again from the Privateer style.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It seems quite weird to me how as Commissioned Navy Officer, you can hire officers for free despite them showing a hire price.
And not paying your crew at all does pretty much mess up all game balancing.
So I wonder if, for simplicity's sake, we should just return all that back to normal.
In other words: You WOULD still need to pay for crew and officers.

And as a second point, once we have the promotion reward steps figured out, we could disable officer hiring altogether.
That should shake things up a bit, no?