Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!
Join our discord server for regular podcasts/AMA about upcoming and released pirate games (Caribbean Legend, Corsairs Legacy, Ahoy, ERAS 2, etc.):
With "shore party", I mean the three officers in your officer slots.
They follow you ashore AND in boardings. Unless you specifically tell them to "sit out the boardings".
Just to make things simple.
Also if we do this probably officers will just level to fast ... I mean its all nice and so if all your officers are good fighters but a level 6 navigator probably shouldn't be a good fighter. He spend his time learning how to read charts etc. if you want him to fight for you he should be helped first.
Also we are basing our finding now on just 1 person. I prefer to actually hear from others also. if not I prefer to keep this for the public release first and see how it pans out. the more exceptions etc are made to the system the harder it is to explain to the player.
I gather you aren't sold on the idea then? I must admit I am not sure myself.
My first thought was that if you don't have Shared XP, then XP shouldn't be shared. Simple and to-the-point.
There is a fine balance between making the game not annoying and making it far too convenient.
Having the "fighter" officer type DO get "Shared XP" regardless of the ability does seem a bit curious.
Because then you CAN make use of it, but only by micromanaging.
So my preference would be to never have Shared XP at all for fencing UNTIL the perk becomes active,
OR to have always Shared XP between the officers in your shore party regardless of the perk.
But not to have it, except for one officer type, doesn't seem right.
This conversation is far too detailed for me to keep up with, but I do want to say that officers are not getting to the next level nearly as fast as the player. This means that over time time they fall farther and farther behind until it is better to just fire them and hire new high level officers. They need to level up to get the perks to keep them alive and they are not leveling up.
Also we are basing our finding now on just 1 person. I prefer to actually hear from others also. if not I prefer to keep this for the public release first and see how it pans out. the more exceptions etc are made to the system the harder it is to explain to the player.
This conversation is far too detailed for me to keep up with, but I do want to say that officers are not getting to the next level nearly as fast as the player. This means that over time time they fall farther and farther behind until it is better to just fire them and hire new high level officers. They need to level up to get the perks to keep them alive and they are not leveling up.
Yes, if we're going back to the stock game behaviour of not allowing any XP to be shared unless you have the perk, then go the whole way and make the perk available without restriction, right from the start.
That indeed is a valid point.But how to counter it?
The only thing that springs to mind right now is to weigh experience given to officers more heavily than that given to the player.
Might not actually be a bad idea to do that. Imagine the officers gaining their skills FASTER than the player, because they are specialized in their fields and the player isn't?
That should definitely give a real purpose to officers, right?
Yes, if we're going back to the stock game behaviour of not allowing any XP to be shared unless you have the perk, then go the whole way and make the perk available without restriction, right from the start.
What are the restrictions to it at the moment? I cannot quite remember.
While I could imagine making it at least so you can't get it as a Rank 1 character just yet, what would be the logic for making it impossible to get until very late in the game?
So for sure there should be room to tweak around with that. @Levis, what do you reckon?
That's the point, though. As in the stock game, I'd like to be able to get the perk as a rank 1 character so I can start training officers right away. Or, for preference, use the Build Mod system rather than the stock game system, in which officers always get some shared XP but get more if you have the perk.
I seem to be alone in this, though. So, does "levelling.c" depend on or affect any other game code, or is it self-contained? If the latter, the obvious solution is for me to get "levelling.c" out of whichever earlier version works best and keep copying that into my installation whenever I install an update.
I seem to be alone in this, though. So, does "levelling.c" depend on or affect any other game code, or is it self-contained? If the latter, the obvious solution is for me to get "levelling.c" out of whichever earlier version works best and keep copying that into my installation whenever I install an update.
That isn't even remotely going to work. That particular file is basically in a constant state of massive flux.
I don't know if you're alone in this though. For all we know, there are plenty of people who would agree with you.
But without feedback, we just haven't got a clue.
That's the point, though. As in the stock game, I'd like to be able to get the perk as a rank 1 character so I can start training officers right away. Or, for preference, use the Build Mod system rather than the stock game system, in which officers always get some shared XP but get more if you have the perk.
Changing when perks becomes available is defined in perks_init.c though, which I think is now in PROGRAM\Characters\perks (used to be PROGRAM\INTERFACE\perks until quite recently).
That file is easily editable.
I don't know if you're alone in this though. For all we know, there are plenty of people who would agree with you.
But without feedback, we just haven't got a clue.
Not if I grab one from an earlier version and stick with it. But if "levelling.c" affects or is affected by other files then my game could break if I have an old version of "levelling.c" in an otherwise new installation. I'm half inclined to try it anyway because the current version is definitely broken - I'm now convinced that my officers have managed to kill enemies themselves yet their Melee skill is still stuck at 0%, so they didn't gain any XP from doing so.
Changing when perks becomes available is defined in perks_init.c though, which I think is now in PROGRAM\Characters\perks (used to be PROGRAM\INTERFACE\perks until quite recently).
That file is easily editable.
I recall the number of points were balanced by @Levis the way they are on purpose.
So my preference would be to keep that requirement.
But the level requirements are of always seem fairly arbitrary to me; maybe that one could be removed?
Then you'd need to save up till Level 3 and then be able to get it. Or on storylines that start at Level 5, you could get it straight away.
Not from everyone on the latest changes yet, I don't think. But yes, we do need feedback from the "general public".
From what I gather here, this is a discussion more on game mechanics and less about actual bugs.
But before we can actually do that, we need to have confirmation that the CURRENT SYSTEM actually does what THAT system is meant to do.
If it doesn't, that still needs to fixed. But once the system does at is meant to and makes at least some measure of internal sense,
any "personal preferences" for it may have to wait until after the public release when we can gather more feedback in general.
Not if I grab one from an earlier version and stick with it. But if "levelling.c" affects or is affected by other files then my game could break if I have an old version of "levelling.c" in an otherwise new installation.
When I say that isn't going to work, I actually mean exactly that.
Swapping out different versions of that file is extremely likely to either crash the game or cause all sorts of errors.
Long story short: Don't do it.
I'm half inclined to try it anyway because the current version is definitely broken - I'm now convinced that my officers have managed to kill enemies themselves yet their Melee skill is still stuck at 0%, so they didn't gain any XP from doing so.
Please check if it indeed does or doesn't do as we say it currently should.
As long as it doesn't do even that, any further arguments are moot because it first need to function as advertised.
So if you can confirm that it doesn't, at least @Levis will know that more work is required.
Changing perks_init.c should a relatively safe thing to do in your own game for testing purposes.
BUT! If you do that and subsequently end up making the "currently maybe broken system problem" invisible,
then we would end up not know if it still needs changing at all, which in return means that it doesn't get changes and may remain broken.
So I would like to ask you very seriously to please bear with the current intentions as-is at the moment.
If we can confirm that works as it is meant to, that perks_init.c change can be made right after to tweak the now-working system more to your liking.
This is the same reasoning I have been forced to apply to many earlier efforts of my own (Nation Relations, Ship Pricing, etc.).
If people refuse to test it in its current state and check that it does what it is currently meant to because they personally don't like it, progress grinds to a screeching halt.
Because it means no feedback, never finding out if the basics work at all and therefore no solid foundation to ever build on in the future.
In other words: That creates a complete and utter waste of time and effort.
You are not alone Grey Roger. I have given up on commenting unless something is absolutely broken. Officers should level up as fast as the player, but they do not and that is intentional.
I think it isn't so much intentional as it is a side-effect of the current logic.
When experience is gained, the player almost always is the one who gets it; or at least some of it.
Officers get it only when it fits with their roles. Which probably means that in total, officers get less than the player.
That isn't what we would want to accomplish though, but I can imagine the current system might have that effect.
That is why I suggested a multiplier so that officers would deliberately get more experience than the player.
Specifically to offset the effect that the player gets experience in ALL skills and the officers generally don't.
Changing perks_init.c should a relatively safe thing to do in your own game for testing purposes.
BUT! If you do that and subsequently end up making the "currently maybe broken system problem" invisible,
then we would end up not know if it still needs changing at all, which in return means that it doesn't get changes and may remain broken.
Not so. In fact, it may even be helpful to the testing. If everyone else plays with the standard "perks_init.c" in which you need to be level 10 to get "Shared Experience" then they won't get it for some time and will be playing without it, thus testing the system as it works without the perk. Meanwhile I'm going to be the first person to test how it works with the perk. (Though, given the comment in post #60, I wonder if there's much point in me testing and providing feedback.)
Not so. In fact, it may even be helpful to the testing. If everyone else plays with the standard "perks_init.c" in which you need to be level 10 to get "Shared Experience" then they won't get it for some time and will be playing without it, thus testing the system as it works without the perk. Meanwhile I'm going to be the first person to test how it works with the perk.
There is ALWAYS point in testing and giving feedback, even if it may not be the feedback the developers would like to hear. Some feedback is still better than none at all. "The findings of 1 person" may be "only 1 person". But it is more than "0 persons" and is therefore at least a start.
So who is actually still doing some measure of play-testing on the latest Beta 4 WIP release?
And what would you consider to be the main areas that still need to be addressed before a proper public release of it?
What areas do you consider worse now than there were in earlier modpack versions?
And what was the "last good recent(ish) modpack version" that you remember?
Worse now than in earlier versions: levelling. Last good version: probably 18th January.
And also: Who would be willing to help out with a proper, substantial push to get this OVER AND DONE WITH?
This applies to both testers AND modders, because I may need substantial support from both groups.
I don't recall getting upset with levelling in the 18th January version, so yes, I'd say it was better than it is now. Mostly the sharing of XP is broken; I've yet to keep a game going long enough to be sure whether the rate of your own XP gain is adequate.
I'm not entirely sure what older versions I still have lying about.
If you happen to have the 18 Jan code still somewhere, could you upload your PROGRAM folder from that version?
I may have to look into the differences in @Levis' code between those two versions, which I never intended to do.
