Build 14 Beta 1

[Pieter Boelen]

Please test this with the worst ship you can. If the worst ship can be handled, but is challenging, then we should be OK.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I tried it last night in a short storm with the Indiaman, which is a stripped down light frigate, and that change slowed it down quite a bit. The same tendency to turn sideways to the waves and just sit there followed by a hard turn is still there, it just happens much slower.

 

[morgan terror]

this bugger's sails have been borked. it's a consistent problem, since i saw two of the exact same ships at the same time. i'm not using hylie's latest fixes mind you, just the ones that game with the latest build patch.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I'm all messed up today, and have been reinstalling everything from patch 6 on. Dunno if everything is installed again, but the game seems to be running ok.


Pieter, what's a bad ship for a storm? For me the small quick handling ships were the worst, like the lugger and bark. I capsized the bark. The caravel was good except that it takes 10-15 seconds for it to respond to the helm. By then it's too far gone to save and I just let it go and tried to catch it on the next time around. The one time with the new settings with the Indiaman it did ok,but it did ok with the fast settings because it responds well to the helm. It's that lag in response that is causing the most trouble and had me trying to push the button through the bottom of the keyboard. What does Black Bart think about that lag?


Morgan Terror: You are using patch 6? That looks like CorvFrig2_50. That happens to be the one I'm using as an escort ship. I know what happened to cause that because I have done it before. I no longer have the old light frigates, just the new ones that Armada and I worked on. Would you like to upgrade?

 

[morgan terror]

nnnnnnno, i use patch 7 WIP 2.

 

[Black Bart]

I tried it last night in a short storm with the Indiaman, which is a stripped down light frigate, and that change slowed it down quite a bit. The same tendency to turn sideways to the waves and just sit there followed by a hard turn is still there, it just happens much slower.

yeah i've tested our spin left bug fix and it is still not fixed really, maybe it happens less often(maybe?) but it still will get into a spin to the left. I've gone back to the original blundering in the dark fix which was:

case 0: arCharShip.stormimp = fRotate; fRotate = 0.01; break;
case 1: arCharShip.stormimp = fRotate; fRotate = - 0.01; break;

As that was modeled on the commented out code at the top of this section:

if (fRotate > 0.07) { fRotate = 0.07; }
if (fRotate < -0.07) { fRotate = -0.07; }*/

In my original testing for this problem it seemed to give the best overall results re the spin left bug, although i haven't been able to test it more recently, but will let people know how it goes once i get around to it.

RE: "Baste's critical hit code is in PROGRAM\Loc_ai\LAi_fightparams.c"

I've had some good success and managed to 'meld'(as in the vulcan mind-meld) the old file with the new one so i no longer have really tough melee battles that often see enemy npc's doing massive damage through blocks and killing me and my officers etc.

I'll post the file here and someone who knows code could look through it etc. I'd be in favour of incorporating Bastes new critical hit calculation damage code he posted above on this(i haven't done that yet as i've just been making certain combats have returned to pre-patch 7 wip 2 levels(which they have in this file) as well, or atleast testing it out etc.

In other annoying news i've been attempting to use my initItems.c file values in the new patch 7 format, again 'melding' the values into the current patch 7 files and after tracking down a few errors associated with weapon nationality names('ENGLISH' where it should be 'ENGLAND' etc - all my fault!) i'm still getting error remarks like this that i'm not sure about what might be causing them:

From 'error.log':

RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 573
missed attribute: model
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 573
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 22
missed attribute: model
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 22
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 26
missed attribute: model
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 26
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 26
missed attribute: model
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 26
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 32
missed attribute: model
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\itemLogic.c; line: 32
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\items_utilite.c; line: 1699
missed attribute: skipgeneral
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\items_utilite.c; line: 1699
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\items_utilite.c; line: 1699
missed attribute: skipgeneral
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\items_utilite.c; line: 1699
no rAP data
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
invalid index -1 [size:2250]
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
function 'CharacterFromID' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
invalid index -1 [size:2250]
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
function 'CharacterFromID' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
uninitialized function argument
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
function 'LAi_GetCharacterHP' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
uninitialized function argument
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1475
function 'LAi_SetCheckMinHP' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
invalid index -1 [size:2250]
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
function 'CharacterFromID' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1525
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1525
uninitialized function argument
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1525
function 'LAi_RemoveCheckMinHP' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
invalid index -1 [size:2250]
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
function 'CharacterFromID' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1530
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1530
uninitialized function argument
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1530
function 'LAi_type_actor_Reset' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
invalid index -1 [size:2250]
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
function 'CharacterFromID' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1535
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1535
uninitialized function argument
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1535
function 'LAi_SetWarriorTypeNoGroup' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
invalid index -1 [size:2250]
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests.c; line: 414
function 'CharacterFromID' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1540
Using reference variable without initializing
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1540
uninitialized function argument
RUNTIME ERROR - file: quests\quests_common.c; line: 1540
function 'LAi_group_MoveCharacter' stack error
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\items_utilite.c; line: 1699
missed attribute: skipgeneral
RUNTIME ERROR - file: ITEMS\items_utilite.c; line: 1699
no rAP data


Now the itemLogic errors are probably to do with the changes to initItems.c, but i'm not sure why i now have quest errors? Did new quest stuff get added in this last patch 7 and if so are others getting these messages in their error.log?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Morgan Terror: All of my installs have the same ships in them. That light frigate file size is 2.57mb in all of them. How big is it in yours?

Oh yeah. I had to start a new game to see if my little rebuild was ok and decided to give that dungeon a try. Instead of putting my abilities into commerce I put them into melee and got down there. It turned out one on one swordfights were very winnable, and while I died a lot I did eventually make it back out. :ty


Black Bart: Spinning left is no longer a problem. The ship will spin to the right just as easily as it will to the left.

 

[morgan terror]

692 kb. in fact, only several of the ship models come close to the size you describe.

 

[Black Bart]

Black Bart: Spinning left is no longer a problem. The ship will spin to the right just as easily as it will to the left.

Until the spin-left bug takes hold I tested about 30 storms with the code we thought would fix it and you will still get the spin left bug, it's just not always going to happen like it used to, so it is an improvement! I've even seen my officers get into a spin-left bug on land(with the fix we thought worked).

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Black Bart: I get errors, but not those.

Spin left bug on land?!?!? :?


Morgan Terror: I found a file with all of the stock patch 6 ships in it and yours is indeed 691 kb. All of those corvettes are around that size, while all of the new ones I have are in the 2.57-2.62mb range. Anyway, give this one a try.

 

[Baste]

So is the 'critical hit' ability something that causes that kind of damage? block and armour ignored?

In the stock game the Critical Hit ability gives the character a 5% chance of scoring a critical hit. With my changes it gives the character a 10% chance of scoring a critical hit, and everyone has a 5% chance without an ability.

Hylie Pistoff, Black Bart, and anyone else who might be interested:

As I showed critical hits do less damage than they do in the stock game, and Hylie Pistoff said that the critical hits aren't the problem, but yet you both say that you are taking more damage than before, and when Black Bart changed it back he no longer took too much damage. So, I thought about it. What can possibly cause this? If it can't be the critical hits, then what can it be? I don't know everything that's been changed with the weapons and all, but I thought of one thing that I changed that might, just might, be causing the problem.

In the stock game the Professional Fencer ability decreases damage done to the character by 40%, but according to the descriptions of the defense abilities and their pattern in the code it's supposed to decrease damage by 30%, so I corrected it in the code. This means that you are taking 10% more damage than you otherwise would. I didn't think of this before because it's not directly related to the changes to the critical hit calculation. This might be causing the problem, but on the other hand, can those 10% really make such a big difference? Hmm...

This is the stock Professional Fencer damage decrease code and is also in "LAi_fightparams":

if(IsCharacterPerkOn(enemy, "SwordplayProfessional")) kDmg = 0.6;

The correction is to simply change it to "0.7".

You could try to use my critical hit calculation changes and change the damage decrease from Professional Fencer back to 40% like it is in the stock game and see if you still take too much damage. If you don't this might, just might, have been it. Another possibility might be changed weapon properties. Anyway, if I understand correctly, it's actually supposed to be 30%.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Hmm, interesting thought. I don't know about others, but when I finally got the professional fencing ability fighting became easier. My biggest troubles came before then. Maybe it's time to start a new game. In the one I've been playing I concentrated first on commerce abilities, then ship defense and repair abilities, and finally melee abilities. Perhaps I got behind the curve.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Alternatively, we could change the ability description to show 20% instead of 30% if the original value was more balanced.

For the storms, I don't know what ship is based for the spinning bug, because I hardly ever play.
Can you not try to decrease that 0.02 value further to, say, 0.05? Would that improve things?
And you are playing with Realistic Game Mode, right? That might make quite a difference also.

With your ALTERNATE ("Blundering in the dark?" Now really!) fix,
do you still get the effect that your ship doesn't keep going straight in a storm?
Maybe indeed we should use your version then instead. If the shoe fits, aye?

 

[Baste]

Hylie Pistoff: Hmm, if your problems happen without the Professional Fencer ability, then maybe this really is caused by changed weapon properties.

Pieter Boelen: I don't know if I understand what you mean, but the ability description for Professional Fencer in the stock game says 10%, actually, while the code says 40% and the other abilities' descriptions and the pattern indicates that it should say 30%.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

For the storms, I don't know what ship is based for the spinning bug, because I hardly ever play.
Can you not try to decrease that 0.02 value further to, say, 0.05? Would that improve things?
And you are playing with Realistic Game Mode, right? That might make quite a difference also.

Because of a total rebuild of the my P7-2 install today I'm still sorting out formerly sorted out stuff. I'm playing in realistic mode of course. I sailed the Lugger, European Bark, Caravel, and Indiaman with a setting of .02. The lugger spun so fast in both directions that it never got in trouble. The Bark tossed cargo, crew, and capsized. The Caravel responded to the helm so slowly that it ended up spinning this way and that and wallowing sideways, but never long enough to do more than toss cargo. The Indiaman was a handful, but its quick response to the helm kept it out of trouble.

The setting was changed to .01 and the Indiaman was tested. The overall behavior was the same, but it happened at a slower speed. No damage. Then I got what I thought was a bad handling ship in the Carrack. It did ok with much quicker response to the helm than the Caravel. Then I discovered that the setting had been reset to .02 after the Indiaman, so the Carrack handled the storm fairly well at .02! Tomorrow it will be tested at .01.

I'm confused by what you are saying Black Bart. The spin-to-the-left-that-never-stops-after-the-storm-is-over never happens to me anymore. Even when the ship is spinning out of control when the storm ends it will slowly stop spinning. I gotta try your settings.

Baste, there were so many changes made I can't keep track of them all and am just reporting my experiences hoping someone can make sense of it all.

 

[Black Bart]

With your ALTERNATE ("Blundering in the dark?" Now really!) fix,
do you still get the effect that your ship doesn't keep going straight in a storm?
Maybe indeed we should use your version then instead. If the shoe fits, aye?

Well i personally think it needs more testing to be 100% sure, but with the code change now in the patch which you worked out was where the spin-left bug error was coming from, we still have the spin-left bug(and this is for Hylie also), BUT it doesn't happen as often, compared to it 'always' happening before that fix.

Now i found in general that the original 'blundering in the dark'(it really was - i'm not a coder, the math of the code means nothing to me, i was simply following the format of the commented out code at the start of that section! winging it 100%!) attempt to see what was wrong in the code did allow me to move left of right in a storm while also giving me random spins to either side to simulate the storm condtions. So yes it won't leave you simply facing one direction untill the storm is over.

I can't say 100% that it fixed the spin left bug - i never had a spin-left bug during the 30 odd storms i tested it in, so it may be no more a fix than the already improved fix we have in the code? The changes are minor so if a few people wanted to impliment them in their game and test more that would be great and maybe we could see which fix works best overall? The bottom line is this particular bug is much less severe than it was once.

@Baste,

like Hylie i'm quite snowed under with all the recent changes(and trying to regain my 'tweaks and balances' coherence in the new code files!), and was simply 'feeling' when playing that something had changed in that last Patch 7 which made melee combat too dangerous in my opinion and expereince of it.
It is one of the problems with the game design we have inherited for this section of the game, it was always a very 'shallow' system in the original game, a simple 'hit or block' mechanic. So making this more 'meaningfull' is always going to be a tall order. I see the combat as a fun side distraction to the real core strength of the game which is the ship-to-ship combat and sailing model. But for sure something had made melee a bit too lethal in that last patch. The code Pieter pointed me to, and that file i posted, did seem to be part of that issue atleast.

I can't comment on the code, just the in-game play, but that is why we play test right I'll have a go later at putting your changes to the critical hits back into that changed file and see how it goes, what you wrote about that bit of the code change does sound an improvement on the original code here imho, but i'll need to playtest it to be sure it 'feels' right and as intended

Re 'proffesional fencer' and other type perks, did anything change in your code that would make those perks more likely for the enemy npc's maybe?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Open mouth, insert foot. ) After my last post I went for one more run before bed. The first thing I ran into was a storm. The Carrack did well at 0.01 but as soon as the storm ended it went into an unstoppable left turn. This was the first one for me since patch 6 was introduced and the first time in patch 7.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I'm moving up the food chain. Got rid of the 2 class 5 Indiaman and replaced them with 2 class 4 fluyts. These ships handle storms fine. No left spins either. The trend I'm seeing is small ships are lucky to survive a storm while the larger ones do ok. Those Indiaman are pretty much defenseless too. With the Fluyts ship to ship combat is once more possible. I had a treasure quest on Turks that I could not do because the class 1 Sirius1 was guarding it. The Fluyts combined with a Fragata Lateena escortship did the deed and captured it. Which brings us to the subject of land combat..................:ixi


The caves were impossible. Standing toe to toe with the pirates is suicidal because I was delivering 20hp damage per stroke on average, while they were delivering 60hp damage per stroke. Sometimes more. I have well over 300hp now and once I was killed in 3 strokes.

Then there was the fact that 2 of my officers did not draw their swords and just walked around. That meant we were outnumbered 12 to 2. :warr Talk about a challenge! Of course when I got to the treasure, the chest was empty..... Then came the return journey. :warr

Then I did Angelique Moulin. It is still a bit buggy as killing Chamfort doesn't always update the quest and that whole fort fight has to be done again. I see the stats for Drake's sword has been changed, and I like it. It is actually useable now instead of just being an oddity.

Oh, the last thing I did last night was to get another treasure quest! To Turks.................:j3

 

[morgan terror]

speaking of that quest, having france go hostile is a bit of a bummer and a mayor downside for completing a sidequest. as luck would have it, i had just completed the girl in a cardgame quest and enjoyed a total of 1 month of not being hunted by the french. not that i mind, but it kinda messed up a pretty big reward. i am aware that the reward is much bigger if you weren't hostile with france in the first place though. i think you recieve a LoM and a frigate.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

You get a LoM and a frigate for completing the girl in a card game? That is a very nice reward! Do you know that the French reward ship is the Boussole? They gave it to me last night. I like the French and beg forgiveness right after stealing the Boussole from them. Don't much like their food though.