Abandoned Swedish Indiaman - Götheborg

[Lord Horatio Nelson]

I just re-looked at the ship, and I see that it look's a bit empty. Maybe, just maybe it could have 2 decks, like having gunports at this layer? Either way it has a good paint scheme.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This one is more beautiful)

Definitely very excellent texture work by @Legendary_Spider!

I'd say both versions are virtually impossible to compare though.
They're very, very different ships.

By the way, you have not confused the games? what realism?) there are skeletons running

Have you tried the PotC: New Horizons mod already?

In the original game, indeed there were skeletons in every dungeon.
This was changed in our mod. Now there are only skeletons for specific story purposes.

With New Horizons, we made the game both MUCH more realistic AND more fantasy.
Our approach was that the main game experience is realistic (with an Arcade option available, of course).
Fantasy content is available only if the player deliberately seeks it out.
That way, everybody can get the game experience they want.

As an example, if you play our Jack Sparrow storyline, you encounter skeleton pirates and the Flying Dutchman.
But if you choose the Hornblower one, there is none of that.

I always thought the PotC version of Queen Anne's Revenge too unrealistic/over the top, so a more historically accurate one is very welcome in my books.

I agree.

The making of the films is also quite telling.
For Curse of the Black Pearl, the "Black Pearl" was made relatively simply; and not quite seaworthy.
For Dead Man's Chest, they made a brand new full-scale ship; based on a more seaworthy hull.
For On Stranger Tides, they used that same DMC seaworthy hull, but "redressed" the superstructure to become the Queen Anne's Revenge.

I assume this was done for budget reasons.
Using an existing ship is easier than making yet another one.
So by writing the story in such a way that the actual Black Pearl doesn't show up, that allows reduce costs by quite a bit.

The design team therefore was tasked to take the original Black Pearl and change her to be as different as humanly possible.
Since the original Black Pearl was very close to realistic, it is a logical consequence that the "redressed" version become more cartooney.

I find the Black Pearl for example much more appealing, mostly due to her stern not being so tall.

My preference for the cursed ships in the films goes in the same order as the actual films.
Black Pearl > Flying Dutchman > Queen Anne's Revenge > Silent Mary
But that's just my own personal opinion.
Everybody is perfectly welcome to disagree for themselves.

Yeah, the POTC Film QAR's stern is a skyscaper and would make the ship have a HIGH COG (Center of Gravity) and would weaken the ship's ability to keep upright during sail.

You're reminding me of the historical Vasa.
That didn't go well!

But what you say isn't necessarily true.
Such a high stern doesn't mean a dangerously high COG, as long as there is plenty heavy ballast way down in the hold.
In fact, old-school sailing ships with very high sterns very much existed in reality.
See here the Dutch "fleut" Batavia:

Not quite PotC QAR level, but it's not so far off either.
And yet this was a very successful design of ship.

There was actually a practical reason for these high narrow decks; but it had absolutely nothing to do with ship stability.
The taxes for the Baltic sea, where a lot of these ships operated, was calculated based on the width of the ship's deck.
So the Dutch designers aimed to make very wide hulls, with very narrow decks.
Seen from behind, this makes for basically an "onion" shape.

This does not make these ships inherently unstable. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Ship stability depends not just on the COG, but also on the "metacentric height".
The shape of the waterline area is the factor that determines this; along with how this shape changes as a ship heels over in wind and waves.

A "GZ curve" can be used to illustrate this:

The "righting moment" on the y-axis is the physical arm that wants to push a ship back to upright position when under an angle of heel.
The surface area under this curve (marked here "upright stability") is the actual measure for a ship's stability.

So much for this little side-step into ship stability theory.
To return to our favourite games and film franchises, the doomed "Vasa" was actually used as an inspiration by the PotC art department.
Compare:

And the Vasa capsize wasn't because of her stern.
It was because of too many heavy cannons on her top deck.

 

[Lord Horatio Nelson]

Definitely very excellent texture work by @Legendary_Spider!

I'd say both versions are virtually impossible to compare though.
They're very, very different ships.


Have you tried the PotC: New Horizons mod already?

In the original game, indeed there were skeletons in every dungeon.
This was changed in our mod. Now there are only skeletons for specific story purposes.

With New Horizons, we made the game both MUCH more realistic AND more fantasy.
Our approach was that the main game experience is realistic (with an Arcade option available, of course).
Fantasy content is available only if the player deliberately seeks it out.
That way, everybody can get the game experience they want.

As an example, if you play our Jack Sparrow storyline, you encounter skeleton pirates and the Flying Dutchman.
But if you choose the Hornblower one, there is none of that.


I agree.

The making of the films is also quite telling.
For Curse of the Black Pearl, the "Black Pearl" was made relatively simply; and not quite seaworthy.
For Dead Man's Chest, they made a brand new full-scale ship; based on a more seaworthy hull.
For On Stranger Tides, they used that same DMC seaworthy hull, but "redressed" the superstructure to become the Queen Anne's Revenge.

I assume this was done for budget reasons.
Using an existing ship is easier than making yet another one.
So by writing the story in such a way that the actual Black Pearl doesn't show up, that allows reduce costs by quite a bit.

The design team therefore was tasked to take the original Black Pearl and change her to be as different as humanly possible.
Since the original Black Pearl was very close to realistic, it is a logical consequence that the "redressed" version become more cartooney.


My preference for the cursed ships in the films goes in the same order as the actual films.
Black Pearl > Flying Dutchman > Queen Anne's Revenge > Silent Mary
But that's just my own personal opinion.
Everybody is perfectly welcome to disagree for themselves.


You're reminding me of the historical Vasa.
That didn't go well!

But what you say isn't necessarily true.
Such a high stern doesn't mean a dangerously high COG, as long as there is plenty heavy ballast way down in the hold.
In fact, old-school sailing ships with very high sterns very much existed in reality.
See here the Dutch "fleut" Batavia:

Not quite PotC QAR level, but it's not so far off either.
And yet this was a very successful design of ship.

There was actually a practical reason for these high narrow decks; but it had absolutely nothing to do with ship stability.
The taxes for the Baltic sea, where a lot of these ships operated, was calculated based on the width of the ship's deck.
So the Dutch designers aimed to make very wide hulls, with very narrow decks.
Seen from behind, this makes for basically an "onion" shape.

This does not make these ships inherently unstable. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Ship stability depends not just on the COG, but also on the "metacentric height".
The shape of the waterline area is the factor that determines this; along with how this shape changes as a ship heels over in wind and waves.

A "GZ curve" can be used to illustrate this:

The "righting moment" on the y-axis is the physical arm that wants to push a ship back to upright position when under an angle of heel.
The surface area under this curve (marked here "upright stability") is the actual measure for a ship's stability.

So much for this little side-step into ship stability theory.
To return to our favourite games and film franchises, the doomed "Vasa" was actually used as an inspiration by the PotC art department.
Compare:

And the Vasa capsize wasn't because of her stern.
It was because of too many heavy cannons on her top deck.

Yeah, true. Vasa capsizes from a slight wind gust, sinking within minutes of being set to sea.
Although I think the Vasa itself looks better than the POTC film FD. Also, know how I can export .gm to .obj without using the BROKEN GM Viewer feature? The Vasa had too high of a COG from the cannons on her top deck, and did not have enough balance on her lower decks.

 

[Lord Horatio Nelson]

Here's a picture of the newer ship. Don't mind the crappy water, I have an intel onboard graphics card, but I use dgvoodo and no intel fix, the water does sometimes look kinda good from different angles and at different lighting times.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Yeah, true. Vasa capsizes from a slight wind gust, sinking within minutes of being set to sea.
[...]
The Vasa had too high of a COG from the cannons on her top deck, and did not have enough balance on her lower decks.

High stern makes for high windage.
Heavy cannons on top decks, without enough counterweight at the bottom makes for a high COG.
A relatively low width makes for a low KM.
This combined reduces the GM, which is a measure for the upright stability.
If the lower gunports were then open too, that could cause flooding as the ship heeled over more than expected.

A quick search led me here: Why The Swedish Vasa Ship Sank – An Engineer's Explanation

Although I think the Vasa itself looks better than the POTC film FD.

Me myself, I'd have a hard time picking between the two.
They're both quite nice in their own ways; with Vasa being the more colourful of the two.

An easier comparison for me is these two:

I like the bottom one much more.
But I know there are people who prefer the top.

Also, know how I can export .gm to .obj without using the BROKEN GM Viewer feature?

You can try to use TOOL to export .gm to .vrml and see if that wants to work.

None of the "GM back to Maya" options are watertight though.
Of course the original developers would never have needed to.
They had the original models in Maya, so just had to convert Maya to GM.

 

[Grey Roger]

@Lord Horatio Nelson: Looking at the stats in post #29, I would suggest the following:

refShip.Name = "SwedishIndiaman1";

Change that to match the name of your new model.

refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonf.qty = 0;

See if you can add a couple of bow chasers to the "part1" model, then change this to 2 and add 2 to "refShip.CannonsQuantity". Looking at the original "SwedishIndiaman1" model, there appear to be cutouts on the forecastle, though no cannons, probably because this is a merchant ship. I'd be surprised if the Queen Anne's Revenge had no chasers, at least after Blackbeard had finished refitting her.

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS4";

Change that to "SHIPS5". Then edit "RESOURCE\INI\INTERFACES\pictures.ini", find the section "[SHIPS5]", and edit this line:

picture   =                1793,257,2048,512

That's the line for the first free slot in "RESOURCE\Textures\INTERFACES\shipsTM.tga.tx", which is where you can put the interface picture for your ship.

refShip.Model = "SwedishIndiaman";

You probably don't want that. If two or more ships have the same 'refShip.Model' line then you can repaint them into each other in the shipyard. That's fine if they both have the same stats and is how you get different paint schemes for the "Kreyser" class frigates, for example; they all have 'refShip.Model = "Rossiya";'. If they don't have the same stats then odd things can happen when you repaint between them.

refShip.TurnRate = 50;

That's the same turn rate as a ship of the line! The original 65 is reasonable. "HMS_Indefatigable", a 3rd rate ship of the line which was cut down to make a heavy frigate, also has 65.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Don't mind the crappy water, I have an intel onboard graphics card, but I use dgvoodo and no intel fix, the water does sometimes look kinda good from different angles and at different lighting times.

The water looks normal to me.

High stern makes for high windage.
Heavy cannons on top decks, without enough counterweight at the bottom makes for a high COG.
A relatively low width makes for a low KM.
This combined reduces the GM, which is a measure for the upright stability.
If the lower gunports were then open too, that could cause flooding as the ship heeled over more than expected.

A quick search led me here: Why The Swedish Vasa Ship Sank – An Engineer's Explanation

Ah yes, the Vasa. Best proof that you shouldn't rush things and take your time to do things properly.
At least you can now see her in a museum, so something good came out of it in the end.

Me myself, I'd have a hard time picking between the two.
They're both quite nice in their own ways; with Vasa being the more colourful of the two.

Indeed, especially with one being based on the Vasa. There are many similarities so it makes it harder to choose.
I may slightly prefer Vasa due to being cleaner. But it is close.

An easier comparison for me is these two:

I like the bottom one much more.
But I know there are people who prefer the top.

Indeed everyone has their own taste.
I think I will go with the bottom one too, but the other one is also good looking.

 

[Lord Horatio Nelson]

The water looks normal to me.


Ah yes, the Vasa. Best proof that you shouldn't rush things and take your time to do things properly.
At least you can now see her in a museum, so something good came out of it in the end.


Indeed, especially with one being based on the Vasa. There are many similarities so it makes it harder to choose.
I may slightly prefer Vasa due to being cleaner. But it is close.


Indeed everyone has their own taste.
I think I will go with the bottom one too, but the other one is also good-looking.

Yep, everyone has their own tastes. I'll likely add bow chasers to the ship even if it's a merchantman since bow chasers are really useful. I'll change its name too, and I'll add a new picture for it if I can. I'll see if I can find out how to turn PNG or some other image format into TGA and I'll use TX Converter to make the TGA become TX. I'll have to export the models into blender since there is no way I'm going through all that trouble to use Maya unless someone can send me a link, but blender is easy for me and I model with it lots. I'm sure VRML or whatever is an importable model format in blender since I think I've seen it in there. Thanks for all this help, it means a lot. I'll work on it a bit, I'm a bit busy right now, but I'll not stop working on this until it's perfect (sort-of, since POTC or any Akella game, has many, many flaws, but modders are fixing them slowly)
I'll add bow chasers, and I'll give her a new walk file myself or just no file since the ship's walk file I put up is literal garbage, the crewmembers do not actually stay on the day
apparently, my bad. It was from ERAS, but I guess it was a placeholder or something. Anyways, I'll give her the chasers, maybe add a nameplate just for a more specific version, and maybe some other stuff. The reason I kept the turn rate so low was that the ship would have turned too much for the game since when I go into the game, I see GALLEONS turning on the spot at a HIGH speed, which is just disturbing... I'll set her weight to 1000, give her 34 guns (2 more as the bow chasers, of which I'll take the same cannon model that the ship already uses, and I'll just slap em' onto the front), up her turn rate a bit, etc. I prefer for her to (possibly) have some guns on the bottom deck too though, but I don't think I'm that good of a modeler to ACTUALLY add-in completely new gunports sadly. The water just loses reflectivity and detail at certain distances/angles
sometimes, mostly during a certain time in-game. The ship will stay with 18-pounders, have 3500 cargo capacity, 58 turn rate, 34 guns, 11.5-13 speed rate, and (may) have the unique feature to it for a nameplated version. Anything else?

 

[Grey Roger]

I'll see if I can find out how to turn PNG or some other image format into TGA and I'll use TX Converter to make the TGA become TX.

Photoshop will do that - read the PNG, save it as TGA. GIMP, which is free, will probably do it too. Other picture editing programs can probably do the same. If it can read PNG and TGA, it can probably read one and save a copy as the other.

The reason I kept the turn rate so low was that the ship would have turned too much for the game since when I go into the game, I see GALLEONS turning on the spot at a HIGH speed, which is just disturbing...

Heavy galleons such as "Galeon1" also have turn rate 50. Fast galleons have turn rate 80 and are supposed to be agile! Beyond that, if you see a ship doing a quick turn, it may be because the captain has the "Club hauling" ability.

 

[Grey Roger]

Is this ship ready yet? If so, can you upload the model and texture files, and preferably "Ships_init.c" with its entry. I can take care of the interface picture - I'll want to try out the ship in a game anyway to check that it works properly. If it does, I'd like to include it in the next update, which I intend to upload this week.

 

[Lord Horatio Nelson]

Is this ship ready yet? If so, can you upload the model and texture files, and preferably "Ships_init.c" with its entry. I can take care of the interface picture - I'll want to try out the ship in a game anyway to check that it works properly. If it does, I'd like to include it in the next update, which I intend to upload this week.

Well, it's not ready yet, and you won't see much of it.
I am going to be working on a fully custom frigate I call the "Grand Frigate" (either Grand Frigate or Freedom Frigate).
It will either have one or two gun decks, and it will have a beautiful cabin.
It will be made up of various parts of other ship models, mashed together into one big one.
I'll likely need some help setting up the main locators, unless I only modify stuff other than the masts and that, since I am fine with gun locators.
Would you like to help with the Grand Frigate?

 

[Grey Roger]

What's wrong with the modified East Indiaman? You have a screenshot of it in the game. At the very least, if you upload the model and texture files for the "Queen Anne's Revenge" version, I could put that into the game - properly credited to you in the documentation, of course.

 

[DavyJack]

This one is more beautiful)

Whoah! This looks way more weathered. Is this a model for New Horizons? And is it available for download?

 

[Gowras]

Whoah! This looks way more weathered. Is this a model for New Horizons? And is it available for download?

I'm not done with her yet)

 

[Foop my Car]

I'm not done with her yet)

will you the greek fire bow chaser?

 

[DavyJack]

I'm not done with her yet)

Exciting.

 

[Gowras]

will you the greek fire bow chaser?

not understood.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

In New Horizons QAR shoots fire from the front cannons.
I think that @Foo Mxcah is referring to that.
I don't know how it is handled though, and if it can work on a game other than New Horizons.