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Solved Period Weapons

We'd need to group the characters and weapons and make sure each group only uses appropriate weapons.
This could mean that random bandits and citizens get low-level simple weapons,
but naval captain get grand blades and such.
Click to expand...

I'm all for this one - rapiers and such delicate things are a bit too common right now. Although, the possibility of getting a better than average weapon off a brigand should be kept at low possibility; stolen goods, etc.
 
I think the people should be in classes and depending on class is what weapon they should get...

ie. raider: tools and low level swords
naval captain: rapiers etc.

Having said that, half the time it appears the officer in charge of nations ships is a officer of that nation but the other half its a random model :facepalm
 
Snow White Sorrow said:
I'm all for this one - rapiers and such delicate things are a bit too common right now. Although, the possibility of getting a better than average weapon off a brigand should be kept at low possibility; stolen goods, etc.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agreed. All we need is to consider exactly how to do it and find somebody to do the code work for this.
It'd definitly improve the game quite a bit! :woot

Captain Maggee said:
Having said that, half the time it appears the officer in charge of nations ships is a officer of that nation but the other half its a random model :facepalm
Click to expand...
I think this is the relevant code for this from PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIFantom.c:
Code: 
// PB -->
void Fantom_SetRandomModel(ref rFantom, string sFantomType)
{
string sModel;
switch (sFantomType)
{
case "war":
switch(rand(1))
{
case 0: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, "Land_Officers", "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 1: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, "Captains", "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
}
//			SetModel(&rFantom, sModel, "man", "man", 1.8, true);
break;
case "trade":
switch(rand(3))
{
case 0: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, "Mates", "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 1: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, OFFIC_TYPE_FIRSTMATE, "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 2: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, OFFIC_TYPE_NAVIGATOR, "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 3: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, OFFIC_TYPE_QMASTER, "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
}
//			SetModel(&rFantom, sModel, "man", "man", 1.8, true);
break;
case "pirate":
if(rand(10)==0)
{
sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, "Captains", "woman", sti(rFantom.nation));
//				SetModel(&rFantom, sModel, "woman", "woman", 1.75, true);
}else{
switch(rand(3))
{
case 0: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, "Captains", "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 1: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, "Mates", "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 2: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, OFFIC_TYPE_FIRSTMATE, "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
case 3: sModel = GetRandomModelForTypeExSubCheck(true, OFFIC_TYPE_NAVIGATOR, "man", sti(rFantom.nation)); break;
}
//				SetModel(&rFantom, sModel, "man", "man", 1.8, true);
}
break;
}

string mAni = Models[GetModelIndex(sModel)].ani;
string mSex = Models[GetModelIndex(sModel)].sex;
float mHeight = stf(Models[GetModelIndex(sModel)].height);
SetModel(&rFantom, sModel, mAni, mSex, mHeight, false);
}
// <-- PB
Merchant ships should get random character models and navy ships should get officers.
Your observation could be normal, if the 50% that gets non-officer captains are indeed merchant ships.
 
Let me repost here what I sent to a couple of members in PM:
Would I be able to get any of you interested in working on the weapons system a bit?
There's a whole bunch of things that need to be done; right now, it's a bit of a mess.

What I would like to do is:

1. Add Bartolomeu's new weapons (files are ready; I'll take care of this...)

2. Realize categorized weapons use: eg. soldiers don't use breadknifes and random pirate boarders don't get Solingen Rapiers

3. Distinguish between Periods with the weapons: make different weapons appear in different periods.
This will mean that we DO have many different-looking weapons in the game, but not all at once.
Less weapons means less confusion for the player, because in this instance, more isn't better.
Especially when the Period assignments are historically correct, this could be very interesting.

4. Re-balance the weapons so that there is no "best" weapons in the game.
Additionally, each Period should get different gameplay styles on land.
Eg. pistols are rare, VERY expensive and not very effectsive in the early periods,
while you might actually have gunfights (muskets on boardings?) in the last periods.

Doing all this would be a huge project and especially point #2 might be hard to accomplish,
because it'll require rewriting the NPC weapon assignment code and a lot of the initItems.c assignments.
Additionally, those "Unique" weapons should be made to NOT SHOW UP ANYMORE!
I HATE looting shotguns and Jack Sparrow's pistol off of random bandits! :whipa

Anyway, please provide your views and, if at all possible, try to help.
If you agree that this project should be done, we need help because I can't do it on me onesy... :?
Click to expand...
None of these points have been started on and only point #1 has somebody assigned to it (me).
I haven't come round to it yet, though I do intend to do that for Build 14 Beta 1.

Hopefully after we went Beta, some people will be able to do some work on the other three points.
They do need to be done in that order, I reckon, otherwise the effort becomes messy too. :facepalm
 
Having discussed this with you last month I agree the order should be adhered to. I might be interested in re-statting some weapons to make basic, practical arms the mainstay of boarding actions and the like, while rapiers and such only do work well in a dueling situation.

random pirate boarders don't get Solingen Rapiers
Click to expand...

Believe me that is a game breaker LOL - they make your pirate cutlasses useless in the current stats. And parrying a medieval broadsword (heavy!) with a rapier? Erm.. bad idea to try that.
 
Random bandits in the jungle getting Jack Sparrows "Unique" pistol which dominates compared to even the scrapper pistol (oh that pistol needs a gun shot sound as well guys) ;)
I recall Pieter seeing this :yes
 
Personally I'm in favour of having to fudge the animations with imagination rather than losing or limiting some of the best looking blades in the game. But then I am horribly biased and capable of editing it back if it is changed anyway :razz
 
Losing or limiting? All we want is to bring some sense into it. And a certain measure of historical realism.

And indeed I DID loot Jack Sparrow's pistol off of a random soldier on, like, player level 1.
Not good. :whipa
 
Can those random bandits even use the quad pistols they sometimes carry? I think not..

Still, as I always say... ships first. :)
 
It would be definitely cool to see the results of your efforts in this department; guns-only engagements in the late periods would be fun!
 
Whose efforts? Not mine. The categorization is beyond me as far as coding complications are concerned.
 
Hi Guys, hows it going?

Sorry I've let this slip a bit, I've been away working on other projects :wp

Pieter, how r u? I hope you time at sea was successful, of course I'll help out here as much as I can but as you know, I'm no coder :facepalm
I hear that you are away again soon so it would be awesome if we could all grab this project by the horns before you go :yes

Bartolomeu, sorry its been so long but I'm putting the finishing touches to the periods for each of the weapons in B14A10, including the weapons you submitted to me before, in an easy to read spreadsheet. I'll submit it soon to the forum for everyone to agree and then perhaps you and I can look at putting them in the mod, although you may need to give me some learning on this xD:

I should get the spreadsheet submitted to you all within the next week and constructive criticism and helpful comments will be welcome. Awesome :onya
 
Nice to see you again, Sim! Without your historical information, we can't do much on this mod, really.

Last time at sea went quite alright. Next time will be within two weeks.
If you get your spreadsheat done before, like, the next weekend,
we might be able to at least make the appearance of weapons period-dependent.
The categorized weapons will need to be achieved later though;
I don't expect we'll find a coder will to do that within a week.
 
Right then, brace yourselves, here is the spreadsheet containing all the weapons in B14A10 :onya I've added it to the modrefguide which has been sorely lacking of my input of late :facepalm

What we all need to do now is look at this and all agree the periods of the weapons. I have put them in the periods where they originally appeared, but this may not be the best thing for the game.

You will find that the ordering is quite logical i.e in the first period most of the swords are heavy broadswords and longswords. In the second period Rapiers are king. In the third period the cutlass rules and in the forth period Sabre's appear.

Please everyone remember that, although I have added weapons into the closest period I can to their origin, in most cases there is no definate date as to when a style of weapon appeared. All I have done is use my references to fit the weapons in each period as best as possible , also taking into account the gameplay value.

By gameplay value, I take a case in point of Fire Arms. In reality, nobody except the Government could afford Fire Arms in the Early Explorers period, and the Fire Arms that were around would have been out of reach in terms of cost for the average person and in all honesty, pretty useless :cheeky But it would be a pretty boring period if we had no Fire Arms in there at all.

You will also notice that I have changed the names of some of the weapons to fit certain periods i.e. the short pistol clearly depicts a flintlock muff pistol from about the mid-18th century. But there were earlier examples of Snaplock Muff Pistols which looked pretty similar, so that is where I put it :)

Any comments or constructive criticism is most welcome but please remember I have spent a little time on this.

Anyway, please all take a look and le's get the ball rolling :cheeky
 

Attachments

  • modrefguide.zip
    1.2 MB · Views: 104
You will find that the ordering is quite logical i.e in the first period most of the swords are heavy broadswords and longswords. In the second period Rapiers are king. In the third period the cutlass rules and in the forth period Sabre's appear.
Click to expand...

This is the kind of logic I'm looking for in personal combat. Now, I'm pretty busy with the beta ships and I probably have a thing or twenty to say about weapon handling but I'd like to have a go at seeing your system in game unmolested first :)

I don't wish to have a case of 'too many cooks spoil the soup' scenario and nothing gets done in the end.
 
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