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Limiting ships to certain nations

<!--quoteo(post=220569:date=Nov 8 2007, 01:38 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 8 2007, 01:38 PM) [snapback]220569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now I am using the following list for ship classification:
Class 1: Battleships and Manowars [really big navy ships]
Class 2: Warships and Lineships [pretty big navy ships]
---------
Class 3: Galeons, Pinnace, Frigates and Corvettes [big merchant ships and average-size navy ships]
Class 4: Fleut (Holland) and Caravel (Portugal) [relatively big merchant ships]
Class 5: Xebec (pirate), Schooner, Brig [relatively small fast and agile navy and pirate ships]
---------
Class 6: Barque, Yacht, Lugger, Sloop, Galeoth [small boats]
Class 7: Tartane [eeny weeny tiny little things]

The British Warship has got a yellow-and-black colour scheme, therefore I thought she should be Napoleonic. The CorvFrig1 has the same model as the CorvFrig2_50, so if one should be Napoleonic, so should the other. They both use the Corvette hull though, so that suggests to me that then all Corvettes should be Napoleonic. Not sure if we should do that, really. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like your list.
You know I have already eliminated the class 1 and 2 ships (your list) form my 1500 -1600 version.
Now you see why I mentioned eliminating the Frigates and Corvettes as well. They are a much more modern design.
Now I'm thinking ... the "Schooner and Brig will have to go as well". (Why am I working on a Schooner <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> )
I'll just bump up the Barque and Galeoth to class 5.
 
We could make this whole thing a lot more advanced. How about:<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->if (CheckAttribute(rShip,"year") && sti(rShip.year) < GetDataYear()) { continue; } // PB<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
With this code, you would, in theory, be able to set the appear year of a ship and when the ingame date is equal to or greater than the appear year, the ship will become available. This would simulate an actual progression in time and new ships would become available during the game. Also by setting the game's starting date, you can define which ships you want to have available at the start of the game. Possibly something to add to the Choose Character interface.

Two issues though: We need some history buffs to define the appearance years of all the ships. Also: since the appearance of the ships spans over a couple of hundred years, you wouldn't realistically be able to start the game in 1650 and play until the 1800's ships would appear. Petros would probably like that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

Anyway: What are your thoughts? If you like this idea, please help with defining the appearance years for the ships!
 
<!--quoteo(post=220625:date=Nov 8 2007, 04:29 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 8 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]220625[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...: since the appearance of the ships spans over a couple of hundred years, you wouldn't realistically be able to start the game in 1650 and play until the 1800's ships would appear. Petros would probably like that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" />
 
Will you look at that! Petros is sailing away with my thought. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
CATCH HIM! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p2" border="0" alt="pirate3.gif" />
 
That's good, I like the idea of a year of appearance for a ship, but what about a year of disappearance too? (thinking of caravels and galions for exemple)
If we REALLY wanted to have an even more complicated system, there should be for each ship a special Gauss like curve... appearance, era in which this ship is rare , common, outdated, rare again, and at last forgotten. But I guess it's too complicated to code (and not needed anyway!)
 
That would be a bit too complicated for my liking. A disappearance year can be added just as easily, though I personally would prefer to have all ships enabled in the game at some point. But I suppose it would be best to indeed add disappearance years as well. So is anybody willing to come with somewhat releastic years for all the ships?
 
Excellent! Thanks a lot. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
caravel: used from at least 1255 up to a date unknown to me. the basic ship design is in fact used up to fairly recently, as in the frigata, a ship used on the river Taag and in the sea near Lissabon until not so long ago. maybe it's still used today. although i think the type of caravel we use in the game was used up till the 1500's, where it was largely replaced by galleons. the beginning of the 1600's would probably be the era of it dissapearing from the seas. correct me if i'm wrong.

galleon: the first proper galleon appeared around 1535. these are very similar to those in the game, except that it has four masts. they where used up to much later, if you count all the variations of it. they where used up to roughly 1670, where they where starting to look more like the pinnace. of course, that's the date where they wheren't built anymore. they may have still sailed the seas later on.

frigate: it appeared in 17th century, thus approx. 1600, but not like in the game. those where more galeoth/sloop like vessels, but they started to look more like proper frigates in 1650, english frigates having 64 guns as an example. they where still used in the 1800's, and might as well be put permanently in the game from 1650.

corvette: the corvette has about the same time as the frigate, although it appeared slightly later, 1670 or so. the corvette with the rounded bow only appeared from 1828 or so, so we might have a problem there. the general pike from 1813 was a corvette, so i'd say put in in-game in the late 16th century and leave it there.

pinnace and flute: the flute in the game was used more or less until 1669. after that, the ships where made wider, so i think the flute should be replaced by the pinnace at that time (although, flutes could of course have still sailed the seas until the beginning of the 1700's, but simply not built anymore). the pinnace appeared around 1670, so it would fit well. the pinnace in the game is exactly the same as the one in 1725, including the rounded rail on the raised section of deck.

cutters and schooners: some ships a bit like these appeared around 1600, but the first proper schooners and cutters appeared after 1700. those before 1700 where actually not the ships we have in the game. petros' rum runner appeared in 1760. i have no details on the bermuda sloop or any sloops at all, but they appeared around the same time as the cutters, and the cutter we have in the game in 1711.

brigs, brigantines and the like: the 16-gun brig appeared in 1669. later, at the end of the 1600's, other brigs appeared, roughly at the same time as the brigantines. incidentally, the snow appeared at that time as well. the 20-gun brig and the standard brig where mainly used in 1778, but earlier in that century as well.

xebec: it's unknown when these where used, but it's certain the barbary pirates used them in the 1600's. other nations started using them in the 1700's.

luggers: pirates used these things from mideival times, but the french also started using them from the 1700's.

barques and yachts: barques where used from the late 1600's, but i'm not sure what type of barques these are. likely the ones in-game. yachts where used in the 1600's, but these where of course single-masted ones. because we otherwise might have a shortage of ship types in the 1600's, i'd add these two in there.

battleships and manowars: these probably appeared somewhere in the 1700's, but likely the latter half of the century. there's not that much i can tell about these, but it's for sure that they belong in the 1700's, as they're exactly the same as the real ones.

this is just about all i could find. the tartane and such where likely used throughout the eras, and the other ships will have to be sorted by appearance, like what ships they resemble and how modern they look. galeoths appeared at roughly the same time as brigs, i think.
 
Could you make this into a list showing:
- Ship type
- Appearance date
- Disappearance date
rather than having it written as text?
 
right-o.

caravel
1255 to late 1500's, maybe early 1600's.

galleon:
1535-1670

frigate:
1650 and on.

corvette:
1670 and on. ship design incorrect.

flute:
?-1669

pinnace:
1670-1800's (?)

cutters/sloops/schooners:
1700 and on, rum runner 1760, cutter 1711.

brigs/brigantines:
16-gun brig: 1669-? (design outdated in 1700's)
1700's and on

xebec: (actual spelling: chebec)
pirates: 1600's-1750 (design changed to having square sails on at least one mast at that point)

luggers:
pirates: 1500's (?)- and on. smuggling craft.
french: 1700's and on, called chasse-marée, used for catching smugglers. (!)

barques/yachts:
1650 and on. (???)

batteships/warships/lineships/manowars/etc.:
1750 and on

galeoths:
1669-1700. same as 16-gun brig. might need different ship with same rigging, as only the hull was outdated, like with the brig once again.

tartanes:
all
 
ok i tried 'if (CheckAttribute(rShip,"nation") && sti(rShip.nation) != iNation) { continue; }' and and i think it works. i sailed arond a long time and it seems to work good! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />
 
Look at my P&E mod topic... I have a good list of the types of ships I think should be considered "Napoleonic" and what they should be named.

I noticed all the flagmasts and ensigns! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> But could we change the bowsprits on the "Napoleonic" ships and get rid of those spritopsails? We also need lots of jibs and staysails! Staysails were almost always set in about any sail combination... and a ship doesn't look right with all that empty space between masts. Fill it in and give everyone a good cloud of sail to look at! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

I think that once we have all the ships and men finished, we should look at creating Napoleonic civilians: tailcoats and beaver hats.

Anything on Napoleonic ships, etc... ask me!
 
Judging the look of the battleship and lineship, I would put them in 1640 instead of 1750, those designs were outdated in 1750, rigging and hull are totally different.
 
you're right about the rigging. ships from 1750 didn't have the spritsails and more staysails and jibs. i agree that the battleships are older, but the manowars are definately from 1750, although the stern is a bit too elaborate. the rigging would have to be adjusted on those though. they seem to be a mix of a relatively modern hull with old rigging. that's not right.

allright, so the manowars are half napoleonic, but the others aren't. however, such big ships wouldn't have appeared in the caribbean that early, i think.
 
I think the Man o Wars are also 1650, the rigging is old, and the stern is Soleil Royale/Sovereign of the Seas style. Maybe we should keep the flutes till 1720.

PS, maybe we should add an option that you could have ALL ships in your game.
 
well, i'd believe you on that point. that only thing that's off is the fact that ship's wheren't nearly as flat as the manowar in that time. the where all more battleship-shaped.

how about 1700 for the flute? we need to determine timespaces.
 
Please also never forget gameplay value in the year settings!

To Landrot: Thanks for checking! Glad to hear it works right now. I would've hated if it would keep working you described at first. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

To Commodore John Paul Jones: Do you have a link to the particular posts that might be of interest? As far as rigging is concerned: We CAN change it, of course, but we'd need somebody to do it and it'd be a fair amount of work. So for now I'd just like to assign the current ships to nations and years and then we can make it more complicated later.
 
well, so what ships would we have in what era? that would help a lot in determining what we might need to change.
 
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