Solved Updating the Worldmap

[Armada]

You mean to move the whole island area to the left? I do believe we can do that.

That's good to hear. Can we also resize the map area, out of interest?
It sounds as though your placeholder map is positioned correctly and mine isn't, but if the map area can be moved and resized, maybe that would help?

Extract attached to PROGRAM\ISLANDS . That should get Cartagena to work.
However, there DOES seem to be a quite massive problem with that and I think it is related to you having to rotate that worldmap 180 degrees.
Because the Cartagena "island" model is NOT rotated 180 degrees. So when you think you exit 3D sailing mode at sea, you end up in the LAND.
And when you sail away, you're heading SOUTH.

Ouch, that's quite a problem. Does that mean ANY CoAS mainland locations need to be rotated to work in PotC?

I already did some simple copy-and-paste stuff, like creating new cannons

New cannons? What do you mean?

 

[KillPhil]

Well I created some new cannons for the special ships like Pearl, Queen Anne's and Flying Dutchman to make them more powerful, like they were in the movies. And I added 42er carronades for the really big ships.
If you want to know it exactly:
42er Carronade
68er Carronade (can only be used by certain SotL, but bit too powerfull for normal ships, so I dont use them, and disabled them from trading)
68er special Carronade only for Black Pearl and Queen Anne's Revenge
128er Carronade ( ) for Flying Dutchman

 

[Armada]

Oh, I thought you were on about cannon models or textures.
Those new calibres sound interesting, and I know HMS Victory could carry 68-pounders, but 128-pounders for the Dutchman?? That ship is overpowered enough already.

 

[KillPhil]

well I know 128er are unrealistic but if you see the movie-scenes with the Dutchman, how easy she bursts other ships with a few shots.. I already used the 68er calibre, and I dont wanted that Black Pearl and Queen Anne's could use them too, so this was the only possibility. Anyway, they are not shown in the Cannons-menu, so you dont know that they are "128er"

EDIT: I also wanted to make these special cannon sounds for the Dutchman (and I made it) but I don't know how to tell the game that it should use it for the 128er carronades

For the others, I thought that big ships may have quite as good cannons as forts. So I first tried to enable the fort cannons for trade, but they were too strong and also, I reduced the fire-rate for fort-cannons to have a chance against a big fort. So I made some new carronades only for ships (which are not as powerful as fort cannons, have a reduced range but therefore a much better fire-rate). The 42er can be carried by e.g. the Bellona and the Centaure. The 68er Carronade can only carried by the Man-O-Wars, Soleil Royal and the HMS Victory based ships. I also made some 42er and 68er long guns, but they were senseless, because they reloaded way too long.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That's good to hear. Can we also resize the map area, out of interest?
It sounds as though your placeholder map is positioned correctly and mine isn't, but if the map area can be moved and resized, maybe that would help?

Resizing? Possibly. Will be difficult to ensure we don't mess up the accuracy though.

Ouch, that's quite a problem. Does that mean ANY CoAS mainland locations need to be rotated to work in PotC?

I believe so. Unless someone knows of another way to sort this out.
Is it even worthwhile to add more CoAS mainland locations? I'd much rather have stuff outside the Caribbean. Better spend our time on that if we ARE going to add more towns, no?

 

[Armada]

well I know 128er are unrealistic but if you see the movie-scenes with the Dutchman, how easy she bursts other ships with a few shots.

That's because Disney doesn't know how real cannon balls work. Perhaps they advised Ubisoft on the firing effects for Assassin's Creed IV.

Resizing? Possibly. Will be difficult to ensure we don't mess up the accuracy though.

Would you be able to try to get my version of the map to line up properly with the actual map area, then?
If this doesn't work, I'll just have to reposition the islands like you did.

Is it even worthwhile to add more CoAS mainland locations? I'd much rather have stuff outside the Caribbean. Better spend our time on that if we ARE going to add more towns, no?

We just made a whole new Caribbean map, and you'd rather focus on locations outside of that? That's some weird logic right there.

 

[KillPhil]

Armada, you forget that the Flying Dutchman is an cursed and a fantasy ship She can emerge and submerge I wanted to intend the dread when you see the dutchman I tested it a few times and maybe a bit too much damage, but it really intends the movie.. One salvo of pure dead^^
Like I said, I made a good sound for these cannons, if you can tell me where to place and code them, I can upload these cannons in a less powerful version

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Would you be able to try to get my version of the map to line up properly with the actual map area, then?
If this doesn't work, I'll just have to reposition the islands like you did.

At the moment I haven't got much of a clue on how to check that it does line up.
I've just been going off of the assumption that the previous one did. :?

We just made a whole new Caribbean map, and you'd rather focus on locations outside of that? That's some weird logic right there.

You've got me there. I was just thinking that the mainland island models are going to be a pain to begin with and if we add more towns there, they'll be sort-of "more of the same".
But stuff outside the Caribbean would add vastly to the variety and story potential for quest writers.

Either way, I don't think we should be adding ANY new towns until we've got Cartagena working properly and citizens for all newly added towns too.
So that won't be any time soon, will it?

Edit: AND until we've got Beta 3 finished. Preferably WITH Pirate_KK's code as applicable.
Haven't done much on that lately and in the meantime we've been changing SO much else.
And more changes = more difficult to merge. So I'm hoping that soon we'll have the current Beta 3 WIP to be finished-ish.
We could even release it as Beta 2.6 then while I continue with the KK code.

Armada, you forget that the Flying Dutchman is an cursed and a fantasy ship She can emerge and submerge I wanted to intend the dread when you see the dutchman I tested it a few times and maybe a bit too much damage, but it really intends the movie.. One salvo of pure dead^^

LOL! I know I've been adding a fair amount of stuff from the movies, but I've always tried to balance them so they provide you a nice bonus without being completely over-powered.
That is, for example, the reason for the Dutchman's cannons being unloaded when you emerge from the water and for the time limit on the Kraken.

Not to mention the fact that the Kraken hardly ever will sink a ship in one go, because ships tend to not hit all the tentacles.
That is on purpose too, because the number of tentacles depends on the HP of the ship.

 

[KillPhil]

Well, if I may say my opinion, even if I dont participate. But I think Pieter is right. This part of the mainland has not soo many important cities, so I think Cartagena is enough for now If you make Cartagena work, you can more or less easily add more cities when they are needed

 

[Armada]

Armada, you forget that the Flying Dutchman is an cursed and a fantasy ship She can emerge and submerge I wanted to intend the dread when you see the dutchman I tested it a few times and maybe a bit too much damage, but it really intends the movie.. One salvo of pure dead^^
Like I said, I made a good sound for these cannons, if you can tell me where to place and code them, I can upload these cannons in a less powerful version

I know she's a fantasy ship, but I see your point of wanting all-powerful broadsides.
In game terms, I think a better way of doing this would be to have the Dutchman use bombs with her existing cannons, rather than crazy-huge calibre guns using balls.
That should have a similar effect without needing to give the ship unique guns.
As for sound effects, I don't know much about how to add new sounds.

At the moment I haven't got much of a clue on how to check that it does line up.
I've just been going off of the assumption that the previous one did. :?

Hmm. There must be a way of working it out based on the code used for the M-key map. Are there any clues there?

You've got me there. I was just thinking that the mainland island models are going to be a pain to begin with and if we add more towns there, they'll be sort-of "more of the same".
But stuff outside the Caribbean would add vastly to the variety and story potential for quest writers.
Either way, I don't think we should be adding ANY new towns until we've got Cartagena working properly and citizens for all newly added towns too.
So that won't be any time soon, will it?

I would argue that more mainland locations would give plenty of storyline potential as well, as Bartolomeu proves with Cartagena, but indeed adding new locations is a big task in any case.

 

[Armada]

Well, if I may say my opinion, even if I dont participate. But I think Pieter is right. This part of the mainland has not soo many important cities, so I think Cartagena is enough for now If you make Cartagena work, you can more or less easily add more cities when they are needed

The thing is, if we only cared about adding locations outside the Caribbean, then I might as well have not bothered with the new map at all.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

In game terms, I think a better way of doing this would be to have the Dutchman use bombs with her existing cannons, rather than crazy-huge calibre guns using balls.
That should have a similar effect without needing to give the ship unique guns.

Bombs aren't easily found though. Unless we make Vanderdecken sell them, but only if you have a cursed ship. Or something like that.

As for sound effects, I don't know much about how to add new sounds.

Those sounds have to be added to RESOURCE\INI\ALIASES\sound_alias.ini .

Hmm. There must be a way of working it out based on the code used for the M-key map. Are there any clues there?

The interface file for that is PROGRAM\INTERFACE\a_map.c . This looks to be the relevant code:

    float startX = makefloat(189.0)+makefloat(23.0);
    float startY = makefloat(50.0)+makefloat(23.0);
    float endX = makefloat(653.0)-makefloat(23.0);
    float endY = makefloat(493.0)-makefloat(23.0);
 
    float FAKE_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE_X = makefloat(2000/stf(endX-startX));
    float FAKE_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE_Y = makefloat(2000/stf(endY-startY));

I would argue that more mainland locations would give plenty of storyline potential as well, as Bartolomeu proves with Cartagena, but indeed adding new locations is a big task in any case.

More mainland locations in that area would mean more Spanish ports, right? Or are there are belonging to other nations?
I definitely see the use of ONE major Spanish port there. But I'm not sure of what to do with more. However, other stuff we could add:
- Some sort of port/shore that allows you to cross the Isthmus of Panama (but to what point and purpose)
- New Mayan pyramid from CoAS (isn't that what the lakey thing is for anyway?)
- Perhaps some sort of Indian village

Either way, how to handle that 180 degrees different issue? Are you able to load that island model into Maya at all?

The thing is, if we only cared about adding locations outside the Caribbean, then I might as well have not bothered with the new map at all.

Please allow me to completely and utterly disagree on that. Even if we don't add ANY new locations, your new map is VERY worthwhile for the following reasons (amongst others):
1. Curacao and Bonaire in the correct order (that's what this all started out with anyway)
2. Cartagena no longer as strange "floating" island for quest purposes only; it now looks normal enough to be added as a REAL city
3. Massive improvement to realism and accuracy, because the Caribbean now REALLY looks like the Caribbean

I of all people REALLY appreciate that #3 there because I've spent a lot of my working career sailing around the Caribbean myself.
So with the worldmap now looking much more like the real deal, it really helps making it feel more real to me too.

Regardless of what more we end up adding, this is a MASSIVE improvement over what we used to have!

 

[Hylie Pistof]

IMHO there are no interesting places outside of the Caribbean. That is where the action is and more mainland locations are very interesting.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

IMHO there are no interesting places outside of the Caribbean. That is where the action is and more mainland locations are very interesting.

For regular gameplay, I'm inclined to agree. But what would you DO with additional towns? That's what I always wonder when we add "more" of something.
For example, what difference does it make to add 10 more types of blades and guns, other than to further clutter up your inventory?

Anyway, I was thinking more of varied story potential. It all depends on what the people who add the new locations want to add.
And to be fair, Spanish Main only requires us to sort out the 180 degree problem. If that can be sorted, the rest should be quite easy.
Location cloning doesn't require very complex coding, so beginning modders could try their hand at this as well.

Locations outside the Caribbean would require us to find out how to set that up. So I suppose I hang for trying to figure that one out.
But I can't do everything I want to do anyway. So that'll be a long-term project. AFTER the complete Beta 3 Pirate_KK Code project.
And AFTER fixing whatever nasty bugs are left in the game afterwards. And then perhaps we should experiment with porting PotC to Storm 2.8 as well.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

You have not played COAS so you do not know how much the mainland can add to the game.
There are things like the Treasure Fleet and all the action surrounding it.
The Silver Train! Try to take that.
More Portuguese ports down South.

And don't forget that the Spanish were the dominant power in the New World for hundreds of years and should have a large presence.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This is now included in Beta 3 WIP 9: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-3-progress.20686
As this is a first version, several parts are not yet updated for the new worldmap. Please report ANY discrepancies you run into.
These include:
- Map Interface graphic to be polished
- Open Sea Mod Caribbean Map not yet made
- Courses given in Jack Sparrow and Hornblower storyline will be WRONG now (please find the specific instances of this!)
- Cartagena island model turned 180 degrees the wrong way
- Anything else???

You have not played COAS so you do not know how much the mainland can add to the game.

Indeed I haven't.

There are things like the Treasure Fleet and all the action surrounding it.

That is DEFINITELY something we should add some time. Not sure yet how to handle it, but I liked what I saw from Sid Meier's Pirates! with the rumours telling you that it is about to depart.

The Silver Train! Try to take that.

I had been thinking of moving that Bartolomeu sidequest to the mainland instead of Petit Tabac. That'd be fun.

More Portuguese ports down South.

That's true. With only one island and zero(!) in the last two periods, they are quite misrepresented.
But then... isn't PotC the only game to feature the Portuguese at all???

And don't forget that the Spanish were the dominant power in the New World for hundreds of years and should have a large presence.

Indeed. Though they do already have a fair amount of ports as it is. Especially in Early Explorers!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Gameplay tip for Beta 3 WIP 9 when trying to visit Cartagena:
- Go INTO the bay where Cartagena lies before entering 3D sailing mode (otherwise you'll end up IN the land)
- Do NOT try to DirectSail there, because you'll pass through the land too

How would we get the Cartagena TOWN icon to show up on the Worldmap? I haven't seen it yet.

Also, for everybody's information, Armada has been doing a LOT of hard work on ALL Worldmap coordinates, including the previously missing shores.
So now EVERY location should be showing up there properly.

 

[Armada]

The interface file for that is PROGRAM\INTERFACE\a_map.c . This looks to be the relevant code:

    float startX = makefloat(189.0)+makefloat(23.0);
    float startY = makefloat(50.0)+makefloat(23.0);
    float endX = makefloat(653.0)-makefloat(23.0);
    float endY = makefloat(493.0)-makefloat(23.0);
 
    float FAKE_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE_X = makefloat(2000/stf(endX-startX));
    float FAKE_MAP_TO_SEA_SCALE_Y = makefloat(2000/stf(endY-startY));

OK, I think I've managed to figure this out. It took a bit of messing around with making abstract squares in GIMP to the exact coordinates of the 'real' and 'fake' maps as per the a_map.ini file in the NEW_INTERFACES folder, and in the end I think I found out that your approximation of the 'real' map's position is roughly correct. I then modified the values in a_map.c and everything seems to match up in-game using my map texture.
See attached for the corresponding files.

Either way, how to handle that 180 degrees different issue? Are you able to load that island model into Maya at all?

I should be able to, yes. I just tried cutting up the island in TOOL and it fits into separate files of less than 50,000 polys.
I thought rotating the whole thing in TOOL might work, but it messes up the model, which is no surprise.
The problem is I also have to import and rotate the fort and seabed, and then rotate all the locators for the island and fort.
It should be doable, but it's one helluva workload just to get one CoAS island sorted out, let alone any others, which is unfortunate.

How would we get the Cartagena TOWN icon to show up on the Worldmap? I haven't seen it yet.

I noticed there were two lines missing for Cartagena in the worldmap_init.c I gave you (see attached for fix), but otherwise I set it up just like any other city.

 

[Bartolomeu o Portugues]

In addition to Cartagena, the cities of Puertobello and Maracaïbo are also important for historic reasons and will allow to make some good quests in the future...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

OK, I think I've managed to figure this out. It took a bit of messing around with making abstract squares in GIMP to the exact coordinates of the 'real' and 'fake' maps as per the a_map.ini file in the NEW_INTERFACES folder, and in the end I think I found out that your approximation of the 'real' map's position is roughly correct. I then modified the values in a_map.c and everything seems to match up in-game using my map texture.
See attached for the corresponding files.

I noticed there were two lines missing for Cartagena in the worldmap_init.c I gave you (see attached for fix), but otherwise I set it up just like any other city.

Cool, thanks!

I should be able to, yes. I just tried cutting up the island in TOOL and it fits into separate files of less than 50,000 polys.
I thought rotating the whole thing in TOOL might work, but it messes up the model, which is no surprise.
The problem is I also have to import and rotate the fort and seabed, and then rotate all the locators for the island and fort.
It should be doable, but it's one helluva workload just to get one CoAS island sorted out, let alone any others, which is unfortunate.

Unfortunate indeed. And it just occurred to me that doing so will probably mess up the lighting and I don't know how to make COL files for islands.
You haven't seen anything for that in the Maya exporter, have you?