WIP Steam Gunboat

[Robert Nutter]

Ahoy Mateys,

I'm happy to be posting some pics of a draft model for the tier 5 Dundas class Gunship, I believe to be PA's first 100% steam-driven vessel!

She's still in fairly early stages, and I need to sort out the poly count next (coming in at around 15k which isn't bad but considering I have yet to do things like the gun carriages and bow/stern details, it's probably going to over-budget slightly otherwise...). She's by no means a perfectly polished model, I know, and I welcome any and all feedback...but the reason I'm posting now is to get any ideas/input for what else she could do with.

Her hull is of packet design (for improved in-game seakeeping), with flat stern and sides. Her engine and deck design is based upon the Charlotte Dundas experimental gunboat class of 1803, and in my opinion she resembles what *might* have happened if gunboats became more prolific in the Caribbean in this period. To this end, she is semi-historical but based upon real-life designs and intentions. My intention is for her to be included within the 6th age of POTC, as an introduction to a possible 7th age...or even as a standalone 'special' class. While her boiler is on the starboard side, her engine is protected under the port-side deck, not only for historical reasons but above deck it'd push the poly count up pretty high...

As a central paddle driven steamer, she benefits from:

• Extremely high maneuverability...possibly more so than a traditional sloop.

• Bow and stern mounted very heavy calibre chasers (NOT final cannon models shown...I need to make a muzzle loading variety)

• Around the same size and speed as a Brig; though more lubberly on high seas.

• No reliance on wind at all (which opens up an interesting new game mechanic...)

• Fairly large cargo space aft.

Coding wise, I've been assured it is likely possible for her to be included without masts and rigging. Texturing will mostly consist of an industrial, no-frills black and white hull design, wooden deck and mostly iron textured around the boiler/funnel area.

Who thinks they'd be interested in given her a go in-game? I ask as I know steam is a relatively new thing, and it'd be good to know who'd actually be interested in this and possible further models to be included Otherwise I can always take the paddle wheel, boiler and funnel off

Any and all opinions welcome as I am fairly new to modelling and everything helps...

 

[morgan terror]

From what i see, you've got a few surfaces clipping through each other. I wonder if that might be beneficial or detrimental to texturing. From what i've seen in sketchup, it can cause artifacting at long draw distances when the surfaces end up so close together than they start clipping through each other. Can be very ugly if the texture of each surface differs a lot. I think i've seen a yellow frigate in the game that does that.

It's a nice looking ship though. Many of the early steamships looked rather improvised, but this one doesn't.

 

[Robert Nutter]

From what I'm aware, the only clipping to be concerned about is on the stern...the deck is a loft so it's only one flat layer, but the points give an appearance of clipping if that's what you mean? I'll do some housekeeping on it in the meantime, though I'll definitely check out the LOD thing...thanks for the advice

Cheers; I was going for a somewhat handsome feel hence the straked funnel...too industrial/experimental and I feel it could drag the 6th age's aesthetic down a little. Though I have Thagarr's 20-gun steam battery beast to get on with after this and that *will* look improvised!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

She looks really quite good! I don't know about "historical and realistic details", but she does give the impression of "early steam gunship".
Should be fun to experiment with her to set up the "fake steamship behaviour without sails".

For propulsion purposes, I know that IS possible. But the game requires you to set sail for manoeuvrability.
So we have to figure out a work-around.

PotC doesn't make use of LODs.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Thanks Pieter. That's what she represents to the game imo, a kind of entry/intro to steam.

To be honest, all the ideas I have beyond this (most of which we've discussed) involve at least *some* wind power...so this is a good experiment to see how far we can take it and if not, no harm done; we can just avoid gunboats! Naval sail was only completely abandoned a decade or so into the 20th century anyway...

Just a basic brig or ketch setup so we know what we're doing if it comes to that...there's also whether it can be coded that she completely ignores the wind speed, as I'm guessing the current steamer still relies on the wind at least a little to control velocity?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Would you suggest I make a 'ghost rig' for the meantime? Just a basic brig or ketch setup so we know what we're doing if it comes to that...

We'll have to see what is necessary; I honestly do not know.
But whatever we add, we can use alpha maps to make weird stuff invisible.

there's also whether it can be hard-coded that she completely ignores the speed, as I'm guessing the current steamer still relies on the wind at least a little to controls speed?

The engine is 100% independent of the wind. Only the manoeuvring may be wind, or at least SAIL-dependent.
As in: You have to use "Battle Sails" to be able to steer normally.
With no sails at all and/or no wind at all, the engine can still give the steam frigate 8 knots or so.
But with no sails at all, she doesn't steer properly. That will probably be the main challenge to tackle for this one.
We'll get to that when we get to it though. She won't be done before the Beta 4 public release anyway and that is what I have to focus on until it is done.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Alpha maps are probably going to save us here

That's really great you don't need to set sail for it to work...how do you start the engine? Is it a newly added parameter? I didn't realise you'd come that far with it! Yeah I still have a good few weeks to spend on this one anyway...would be good to sneak her into Build 14 at some point though!

I need to remember how to force a ship to appear at the beginning of a campaign so I can see how the current steamer responds and get a better idea of what our challenges are. Is it in buildsettings.h still? Then just swap out Nathaniel's starting ship? (I really am a noob!)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If you get the Beta 4 WIP, find the Free Play storyline, click your character portrait and scroll till you find Robert Fulton.
Instant steam frigate at game start! Without cheats.

The engine is controlled with the +, - and * keys on the Numpad.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Will do! I'm still on beta 3.3 (I think it is) as I used the older download...

That sounds awesome...some nice coding there

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'm still on beta 3.3 (I think it is) as I used the older download...

Oh, in that case my trick won't work. Instead, execute this line of code through console:

GiveShip2Character(pchar,"RN_SteamFrigate","Astrea",-1,ENGLAND,true,true);

See here point 4 for how: Tutorial - Modding Tips & Tricks | PiratesAhoy!

 

[morgan terror]

I've found a ship that has the clipping errors i mentioned in my earlier post. It happens because the yellow hull's been modelled and textured underneath the potruding black parts of the hull, and both parts are so close together at that distance that the game can't properly distinguish between the two surfaces. The easiest way to fix this would be to texture the yellow parts that are underneath the black parts black as well rather than remodel the whole ship, but that would still be quite tricky to get exactly right, i'd imagine. Best to solve the problem early.

The issue, mind you, looks worse than it does in the screenhot. In-game the glitchy parts are constantly moving around, like the flag artefacting bug.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Yeah I'm being especially careful of having overlapping components...in fact I'm redoing the deck and bits of the hull as we speak so it's fresh in my mind! I can imagine it does look worse in-game, is it possible though that there's a bug at play? As whoever did that frigate must've been aware of the problem?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That particular ship @morgan terror posts was originally made for another game.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Ah, that would make sense! So it wasn't from an original model with points and splines still available to tinker with?

Regarding your above post, Pieter, I shall certainly try that tonight as I don't believe I've used the console before and am intrigued!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Ah, that would make sense! So it wasn't from an original model with points and splines still available to tinker with?

Nope. She was done for PotBS, if I recall, only got a quick port into PotC and that's it.

 

[Robert Nutter]

@Pieter Boelen , just used the Astrea...a very handsome ship. Also I notice you used the cool sound from Virtual Sailor. Used to love listening to that and I'd recognize it from anywhere!

I didn't realize sound was possible, that's an exciting prospect! I could get us some real engine noises if required (steam engineering is my father's profession)...fun as the existing one is, it could be more realistic? An engine such as the one on Dundas, for instance, would have a serious audibal impact...could make a good atmosphere I think

As for the ship herself...it makes more sense to me what you mean by maneuvering now...could be a challenge. Does it also make any difference whatsoever that Astrea has two wheels? Or does it not work that way?

EDIT: MUCH further on down the line, what do you think about custom hull noises for Iron ships if iron ships make an entry into the game? Doable? Groaning, clanging etc...it'd certainly make some serious variety in battles.

The smoke, steam and spray coming from the wheels is a lovely addition...I'm guessing it's just a matter of locating it on the model as you said before?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Also I notice you used the cool sound from Virtual Sailor. Used to love listening to that and I'd recognize it from anywhere!

I've got to admit I didn't spend a lot of time looking for a sound.

I could get us some real engine noises if required (steam engineering is my father's profession)...fun as the existing one is, it could be more realistic? An engine such as the one on Dundas, for instance, would have a serious audibal impact...could make a good atmosphere I think

As long as it is a 1-second clip so that it can be played in a loop.

Does it also make any difference whatsoever that Astrea has two wheels? Or does it not work that way?

No. The game doesn't even KNOW there are "wheels". The "fake engine" is just applying a constant speed.
Or even more technical, a "z rotation impulse":

rCharacter.Ship.Impulse.Rotate.z = 0.2 * PowerScalar * SpeedRateScalar * DamageScalar * SailCompensation;

Can't remember how, but I accidentally found that attribute served as a "wind-independent engine" of sorts.
And since we already HAD a steam frigate model, it didn't take long to build that into a full-fledged feature.

You control the size of that impulse with the [+]/[-]/[*] buttons.
(Guess where I got the idea for using those particular controls.... )

MUCH further on down the line, what do you think about custom hull noises for Iron ships if iron ships make an entry into the game? Doable? Groaning, clanging etc...

That is "ear candy". Right now we're having a hard enough time with sorting out the main functionality in the mod.
But maybe.... one day.... it's not impossible, at least.

 

[Robert Nutter]

As long as it is a 1-second clip so that it can be played in a loop.

That'd be fairly easy...I'll see what I can do!

No. The game doesn't even KNOW there are "wheels". The "fake engine" is just applying a constant speed.
Or even more technical, a "z rotation impulse":

I guessed as much, which is kind of a lifesaver in a way as it means it won't have any difficulty swallowing my central wheel design...that's an innovative way of going about it, and incredibly it makes sense to me! That was lucky to have found that...

You control the size of that impulse with the [+]/[-]/[*] buttons.
(Guess where I got the idea for using those particular controls.... )

Ahhh, VS...where would we all be without you?

That is "ear candy". Right now we're having a hard enough time with sorting out the main functionality in the mod.
But maybe.... one day.... it's not impossible, at least.

Definitely, but further down the line could be an interesting addition...once the Beta 4 is out successfully that is! Just out of interest, what else do we need to sort out if steam is to become more viable? Anything I may be able to help with or all coding?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Just out of interest, what else do we need to sort out if steam is to become more viable? Anything I may be able to help with or all coding?

Main things:
- Adding "coal" as a new good
- Adding some settings in ships_init.c so that different steamships can have different engine speeds/fuel consumption
- Figure out how to do sail-less steamships as mentioned earlier
- Having very simply more different steamships in the game

That last one is the hardest. The others we can handle, if given enough time.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Those are great ideas, and the third one will need to be done as part of adding my boat anyway so it's a good experiment, as you said before! And you already know I can help with the last one and will as much as I can. I can get this one done in terms of modelling and ready for coding-in by middle of January, I'd say, and I'm also working on Thagarr's Demologos idea alongside it which gives us two little experiments...