Fixed Standard Storyline: Second task too hard?

[Pieter Boelen]

That is what happens when sailing with the Oiseau - when you leave the World Map ( wherever you are ) the player's flag is changed to English and Oiseau turns hostile to the player automatically.

Thanks for confirming; that is at least working as I would like it to work.

Using English ships and forts to assist you is admittedly a bit of a cheat.
But I can't think of any simple way of preventing it and it isn't technically an invalid way of doing it.
So fine by me. Should be able to keep this as-is then.

It seems that this issue went from "Second Task too hard" to "Second Task too easy" without any code changes being made yet!
At the moment, the only change I would consider making is to not make it so easy to kill the guy while still in port.
Either by enabling godmode for him OR by having a big penalty when you DO kill him.

Since that goes against the original request, I have to ask: If we do need to make it easier, what would be a sensible way of doing so?

 

[Talisman]

Using English ships and forts to assist you is admittedly a bit of a cheat.
But I can't think of any simple way of preventing it and it isn't technically an invalid way of doing it.
So fine by me. Should be able to keep this as-is then.

- Not really a cheat.

I would prefer to see it as using knowledge of the game ( or careful thought on the part of the player ) to survive the challenges they face early in the game.

It is preferable to the alternative of the player being given much weaker enemies than themselves so that they can progress in the quest without dying too often.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The solution can be as simple as sailing to Bridgetown instead of Speightstown. At least I found the right island!

The basic problem is that modern games set the player up in god mode and then deliver a steady stream of too easy opponents to destroy. POTC isn't like that at all.........

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The basic problem is that modern games set the player up in god mode and then deliver a steady stream of too easy opponents to destroy. POTC isn't like that at all.........

Very true. And if at all possible, I'd like to make it even less so!

 

[Levis]

I also prefer it not being to easy. BUT there should be a difficulty curve at the start of the game. Especially when playing on lower difficulty so people can learn the mechanics etc. That's why I agreed to tone down the guards in the first task a little bit.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I agree all that is fine. The QUEST should be playable. The rest of the game world may be a different story though.

 

[Morkar]

Sorry, I wasn't able to playtest it. I'm a bit busy this week. On Sunday I should have some time.

It's mentioned in the journal that the Oisseau should be easy to capture. Maybe this entry should get changed to make it clear that it's better to try a more cunning method? Alternatively giving him only a minimal crew to sail with if that's possible? Would make sense for a trading ship.

Being able to kill him and finish the quest that way is a bit dodgy for me when it comes to the story. They would just take another captain then I guess. At least the gun powder would still belong to the French. But I see no easy solution for this.

As for general difficulty I just think the easiest difficulty should indeed be easy to not frustrate new players, at least at the first two missions where they learn the basics of land combat, sea combat and boarding.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Does anyone have a savegame just prior to this point of the storyline?

 

[Morkar]

Bit in a hurry, I hope that's the right one where you are ready to set sail from the port with the Captain.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Bit in a hurry, I hope that's the right one where you are ready to set sail from the port with the Captain.

Thanks; will see what I can do with that.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So I'm intending to do the following two things:
1. If you kill him in port, have plenty soldiers appear
2. Change the quest text to indicate that an alternate solution to boarding may be safer

If anyone thinks anything else needs doing, please say so as soon as possible.

 

[Grey Roger]

At the moment the "win_condition" which triggers when Virgile Boon dies is placed all the way back at case case "Massoni_spared". Perhaps only set it once you're at sea? Then make Boon immortal while you're ashore and remove the immortality when you go to sea. Or, even easier, just make him immortal until you go to sea anyway, then you can't kill him in port.

Boarding is supposed to be the easy way. Otherwise you either need to do something sneaky such as lure Oiseau to a British fort, or sink it yourself with cannonfire, which is going to take ages if you still have the original starting lugger and will probably take ages even if you've acquired something better. Admittedly I haven't played "Tales of a Sea Hawk" for ages, probably not since Beta 3.3, but I never had any trouble taking on Oiseau - has the ship been made tougher since then? (Mind you, by the time I was taking on Oiseau, I'd usually helped myself to someone's schooner or something of similar level, and had also bumped up my "Melee" skill by raiding the dungeons on Barbados and Jamaica. Then again, if you're not prepared to do this sort of preliminary work then you're going to be in trouble when it comes time to take on Bridgetown fort, for which you'll need to acquire a ship with big guns...)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

At the moment the "win_condition" which triggers when Virgile Boon dies is placed all the way back at case case "Massoni_spared". Perhaps only set it once you're at sea? Then make Boon immortal while you're ashore and remove the immortality when you go to sea. Or, even easier, just make him immortal until you go to sea anyway, then you can't kill him in port.

That's what I originally thought of. But then people objected because they DO want to be able to kill him there.
Which means we need to add consequences to that instead, like when you kill a town guard.

Boarding is supposed to be the easy way. Otherwise you either need to do something sneaky such as lure Oiseau to a British fort, or sink it yourself with cannonfire, which is going to take ages if you still have the original starting lugger and will probably take ages even if you've acquired something better. Admittedly I haven't played "Tales of a Sea Hawk" for ages, probably not since Beta 3.3, but I never had any trouble taking on Oiseau - has the ship been made tougher since then?

Nope, she hasn't been touched. Not deliberately anyway.
From what I understand of the original report, the issue is that the starting game Lugger is Tier 8 and the Oiseau is Tier 7, so the fight is stacked somewhat in the favour of the enemy.

Mind you, by the time I was taking on Oiseau, I'd usually helped myself to someone's schooner or something of similar level, and had also bumped up my "Melee" skill by raiding the dungeons on Barbados and Jamaica.

That probably explains it. That is pretty much exactly what @Morkar didn't do.

Then again, if you're not prepared to do this sort of preliminary work then you're going to be in trouble when it comes time to take on Bridgetown fort, for which you'll need to acquire a ship with big guns...

I think that part at least contains a clear indication to wait and prepare yourself until you're ready.

 

[Grey Roger]

It's always had the option to wait until you were ready, so you could go back to Bridgetown (or even Greenford, you could do it back then as I recall) and repair, restock and recrew your ship before the attack. You only needed to go and get a battleship when Build 14 decided that a frigate's guns couldn't touch a fort.

As for killing Virgile Boon in port, as @Morkar said, the French would just appoint a replacement captain. (In the "Assassin" storyline you're trying to prevent a French warship from sailing to Portugal's aid, your first reaction is to kill the captain, and the French do exactly that - get a new captain and send the ship off anyway.) Also, if you've just been caught killing the captain, the French would probably not trust you to escort the ship any more. Which means the consequences of killing Boon in port ought to be (a) instant fight with all the marines in St. Pierre port unless you do it sneakily, and (b) you need to figure out some other way to intercept Oiseau plus its new escort. Maybe borrow the "Assassin" solution, which is board and sabotage the ship; or the ship's departure is delayed, giving you time to report back to Silehard and have him assign another ship to accompany you.

In theory Oiseau, a "Barque1", has more crew than your starting "LuggerVML" - 32 crew versus 28. But "Barque1" is a trade ship so, in common with other merchants, probably has reduced crew and morale, while if you've been doing your job properly, you have a full crew with good morale and probably better weapons. And possibly a couple of officers with decent "Melee" skill and equipment. (If not, why not? Just round the corner is Fred Bob waiting for you to hire him, and he could probably take Oiseau single-handed. )

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You only needed to go and get a battleship when Build 14 decided that a frigate's guns couldn't touch a fort.

I don't think anyone "decided" that. Must be an unintended side-effect of all sorts of other work being done.

As for killing Virgile Boon in port, as @Morkar said, the French would just appoint a replacement captain. (In the "Assassin" storyline you're trying to prevent a French warship from sailing to Portugal's aid, your first reaction is to kill the captain, and the French do exactly that - get a new captain and send the ship off anyway.) Also, if you've just been caught killing the captain, the French would probably not trust you to escort the ship any more. Which means the consequences of killing Boon in port ought to be (a) instant fight with all the marines in St. Pierre port unless you do it sneakily, and (b) you need to figure out some other way to intercept Oiseau plus its new escort. Maybe borrow the "Assassin" solution, which is board and sabotage the ship; or the ship's departure is delayed, giving you time to report back to Silehard and have him assign another ship to accompany you.

Since I need simple solutions, Godmode is beginning to sound better and better.

My alternate idea was to indeed have the whole "instant fight" triggered, which should be easy enough and you'll probably not survive that.
But I don't want to have to add the whole "secondary captain" thing, because that would be a LOT of work.
For something that probably will never happen, because you'd be dead.

In theory Oiseau, a "Barque1", has more crew than your starting "LuggerVML" - 32 crew versus 28. But "Barque1" is a trade ship so, in common with other merchants, probably has reduced crew and morale, while if you've been doing your job properly, you have a full crew with good morale and probably better weapons.

Not sure if quest ships would be affected like that the same as random ones.

 

[Talisman]

Not sure if quest ships would be affected like that the same as random ones.

I think the Oiseau, has a full set of Stats ( full crew & good Morale ) - writing this from memory.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I think the Oiseau, has a full set of Stats ( full crew & good Morale ) - writing this from memory.

Thanks; that would support my suspicion.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The bottom line is that you have to use some common sense to do well in POTC. You don't start out in god mode but have to use that grey stuff between your ears to survive. The game is set up so that if you want to commit suicide by going up against opponents who are too tough for you, then go ahead and commit suicide. Your choice.

It is no secret what the Oiseau is so it is up to the player to make sure he can take it BEFORE attempting it. If you fail, lick your wounds and go get a better ship and crew.

 

[ANSEL]

You don't start out in god mode but have to use that grey stuff between your ears to survive.

Thats what make the game worth playing.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The bottom line is that you have to use some common sense to do well in POTC. You don't start out in god mode but have to use that grey stuff between your ears to survive. The game is set up so that if you want to commit suicide by going up against opponents who are too tough for you, then go ahead and commit suicide. Your choice.