Solved Salary, Divide the Plunder and Leadership Skill

[Hylie Pistof]

I'm just saying that around level 25, for example, you leveled up 24 times. So you should then have up and about 24*2+10=58 out of 100 skill points.
Is that sort-of how it works out in the game?

Uh, no. I am at level 14 which should work out to 34 SP, but I have around 50 SP. Why? Tattoos add SP plus I have met some teachers who also add SP, items like the sextant compass and scales add SP, and then there are the books which also add SP. Since I want to keep my leadership low I have turned down some offers to teach me leadership.

Look here.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So... I did some work on this now! In PROGRAM\Characters\CharacterUtilite.c:

// DIVIDE THE PLUNDER
void DividePlunder(ref PChar)
{
    int cn,j,q;
    ref chref,chref2;

    float csr = GetCrewShareRatioC(PChar);
    PChar.Crewstatus.lastcsr = csr;
    float atcsr = 1.0;
    if(CheckAttribute(PChar,"Crewstatus.alltimecsr")) atcsr = stf(PChar.Crewstatus.alltimecsr);
    atcsr = (atcsr + GetCrewShareRatioC(PChar)) / 2.0;
    PChar.Crewstatus.alltimecsr = atcsr;
    AddWealthToCharacter(&PChar, GetPersonalShareC(PChar) * (0.75 + makefloat(GetFoodEver()) * 0.25));
    for(q = 0; q < GetPassengersQuantity(PChar); q++)
    {
        cn = GetPassenger(PChar, q);
        if(cn!=-1)
        {
            chref = GetCharacter(cn);
            AddWealthToCharacter(&chref, GetCharShare(PChar, &chref));        // LDH was addmoney 12Mar09
        }
    }

    // PB: Leadership Bonus -->
    float explength = GetAttribute(PChar, "CrewStatus.explength");
    if(explength > NORMAL_EXP_LENGTH) explength = NORMAL_EXP_LENGTH;
    explength = explength/NORMAL_EXP_LENGTH;
    AddPartyExpChar(PChar, "Leadership", makeint(30000 * csr * explength));
    // PB: Leadership Bonus <--

Here's my thinking: Normal expedition length is 180 days. After half that time, morale starts decreasing. So you'll have a hard time having a longer expedition than that.
Crew share ratio is a value between 0.0 and 2.0, indicating how successful you're being. So a fully successful expedition of 180 days or longer should give you maximum XP.
So the maximum value returned will be 30000*2.0*1 = 60000 XP points (which, for some reason, translates to 45000 XP in the game).

This is the code handling this for Salary Mode:

    // PB: Repeat Payment Executing Bonus -->
    if(!CheckAttribute(PChar, "repeat_salary_payment")) PChar.repeat_salary_payment = 0;
    else
    {
        if(sti(PChar.repeat_salary_payment) <  0) PChar.repeat_salary_payment = 0;
        if(sti(PChar.repeat_salary_payment) >= 9) PChar.repeat_salary_payment = 9;
    }
    PChar.repeat_salary_payment         = sti(PChar.repeat_salary_payment) + 1;

    AddPartyExpChar(PChar, "Leadership", sti(PChar.repeat_salary_payment)*1000);
    // PB: Repeat Payment Executing Bonus <--

The maximum you can get each month is 10*1000=10000 XP. Six months gives you 60000 XP, same as when Dividing the Plunder.
Sounds fair enough?

Only problem is that in the early game, XP added is waaay more than later on.
If I give that full 60000 XP points to myself in one go right at the start of the game, that equals more than 2000%, which is obviously quite ridiculous!
Of course you can't get that to that until later on in the game. It takes 10 months on Salary to get up to maximum XP and 6 months of fully successful plunder on Signed Articles.
So by that time it would no longer have such an impact. But still... getting 45000 XP points in one go is quite a lot...

 

[Skyworm]

I am not sure if I understand correctly.

60000 XP is a big number, sure ... but to get them, one has to be successfully plundering for about 6 month, or not? And especially early in the game, there is a big temptation to invest your crews money into better equipment, ship upgrades and lots of it, instead of hoarding it to devide.
So I would guess, in real game experience, the effect will be less dramatical than it looks in theory.

When I play a pirate, I usually aim for something.
That would be decent armor (battle cuirass) for me and officers, at least cheap armors for a decent boarding party, and of course a ship of at least Brig- to small Frigate size with some additions from ship yard. And while I am certainly commandeering the ship, I'll have to pay for any adds. So, that's a lot money that goes into this. And before this is achieved, there is not much hoarding of treasure.
And while one can be very lucky with pizes load, you are certainly not always lucky. Basically, it is a rare Barque loaden with spanish gold.

So, if you think you have something working, I'd gladly give it a try.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Uh, no. I am at level 14 which should work out to 34 SP, but I have around 50 SP. Why? Tattoos add SP plus I have met some teachers who also add SP, items like the sextant compass and scales add SP, and then there are the books which also add SP.

Of course items and teachers do throw our checks out of whack, because then we can no longer see the effect of the Auto Skill System on its own.
And then we can also no longer compare it to the stock game system.

Level 14 would work out to 10+2*13=36 SP. You have 50 SP before any items are taken into account, because those only show in the second row of numbers.
The tattoos and teachers are permanent skill increases. With 4 tattoos, that brings you up to 40 SP. Did you use up and around 10 teachers?
If so, that would match up reasonably well then.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Don't forget items like the compass, sextant, scales, and books. Methinks I only used maybe 5 teachers.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

60000 XP is a big number, sure ... but to get them, one has to be successfully plundering for about 6 month, or not? And especially early in the game, there is a big temptation to invest your crews money into better equipment, ship upgrades and lots of it, instead of hoarding it to devide.
So I would guess, in real game experience, the effect will be less dramatical than it looks in theory.

Exactly true. Not to mention that during those 6 months, you'll be leveling up, which also decreases the skill increases.
And you'll probably start out on salary for a while first before switching over. So we have to see how it works out.
Care to give it a try? No need to start a new game. See if YOU can get up to FULL 180-day expedition with an overjoyed crew!

I'm also putting some code in place to remove "repeat_salary_payment" when you sign articles.
So if you switch back to Salary afterwards, you have to build up your Leadership bonus from that again.
Good idea?

Don't forget items like the compass, sextant, scales, and books. Methinks I only used maybe 5 teachers.

Those items are not indicated in the first row of numbers, only in the second row. So that SP number of 50 already excludes them.
If you used only 5 teachers, that means you are 5 SP ahead of what you might have managed on the stock game system.

 

[Skyworm]

Cheers,

Exactly true. Not to mention that during those 6 months, you'll be leveling up, which also decreases the skill increases.
And you'll probably start out on salary for a while first before switching over. So we have to see how it works out.
Care to give it a try? No need to start a new game. See if YOU can get up to FULL 180-day expedition with an overjoyed crew!

Gladly. What do I need to do to get this?
Or shall I just copy in that code above? Not sure where it belongs to.

I'm also putting some code in place to remove "repeat_salary_payment" when you sign articles.
So if you switch back to Salary afterwards, you have to build up your Leadership bonus from that again.
Good idea?

So I would loose a leadership bonus earned? Loose leadership? Or what?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

To prevent any errors by putting the code in the wrong place, please extract attached to PROGRAM\Characters .

So I would loose a leadership bonus earned? Loose leadership? Or what?

Remember that the more time in a row you pay salary, the higher the monthly leadership increase?
This just resets the counter back to 0. So that if you go from Articles back to Salary, you'll start out with the minimum leadership skill increase.
To prevent this: you paid salary 10 times in a row and were getting maximum leadership each month, switch Salary>Articles>Salary and continue getting maximum leadership.
That doesn't seem right, does it?

 

[Skyworm]

Ah, I understand.

So sticking to one system is better than continuously changing them. Sounds logical. Who would follow a captain who does not know what he wants?

So, 'll have to try at least 6 month, better longer? And look how it leads to?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So, 'll have to try at least 6 month, better longer? And look how it leads to?

Well, you don't have to get that far. But that's when you'd get the maximum Leadership increase.

 

[Skyworm]

Well now gentlemen,

I just devided my plunder.

I tried this out in a new game, started few days ago when Pieter modded the option of leadership reward for deviding plunder.
Character has been sort of a pirate, plundering and pillaging the seas since then.
I signed articles at the very beginning of the game, even before setting sails the first time. Have been out since 20-4-1690 to 22-9-1690. Over this, I plundered a hefty sum of 882,661 gold.
This then was devided.
Meself got me share of 133,993, each crew 8,773 and starting capital was 98,226.



So additionally, that gave me a reward of
+25,288 exp
+ 379% leadership
Bringing up my leadership from
51% 1-2 before to 330% 2-3 after.
I just wonder if +379% should not have been something close to 4 points of leadership instead of just 1?

Note:
I have not been doing any quests at all, but occasionally talked to people, so few % of my actual leadership skill come from that.

Imho, if we get the 379% equalling 3-4 points of leadership increase, I'd be very fine with that feature. It is a good alternative to doing quests, especially in free playing. And 6 month of successful plundering are a bit of work, too, so it's not for free.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You'll notice that even if you get just a single % Leadership now, your Leadership skill will increase straight away.
I could probably do a stupid fix by just adding a few lines to add 1 XP Leadership and give you the full monty.

Isn't +379% not a bit much in one go, though? Which would suggest that BOTH this and the Salary version are a bit overenthusiastic.
That is almost 4 Leadership skill points in half a game year of playing. You're supposed to be playing for SEVERAL years, no?
Shouldn't get up to 10 Leadership in two years just by paying salary/dividing the plunder.

 

[Skyworm]

Cheers,

You'll notice that even if you get just a single % Leadership now, your Leadership skill will increase straight away.
I could probably do a stupid fix by just adding a few lines to add 1 XP Leadership and give you the full monty.

Well now that I can not test now, because I have just installed 2.5 wip ...

Isn't +379% not a bit much in one go, though? Which would suggest that BOTH this and the Salary version are a bit overenthusiastic.

I am not so sure about it. Maybe, maybe not.

That is almost 4 Leadership skill points in half a game year of playing. You're supposed to be playing for SEVERAL years, no?
Shouldn't get up to 10 Leadership in two years just by paying salary/dividing the plunder.

The longest game I ever played was about 2 years, and I had leadership 5 at the end. Because I was not caring about quests.
You may be right with it being a bit overpowered ... but count in that ...
- for people who really free play it is the only way to increase leadership (excepot excessively talking to people)
- 2 years of game time take a whole more real time to play in iron man mode
- my first leadership really came from this deviding plunder action.
I was doing with 1 point of it (plus that item) for half a year. And leadership is an important stat. In fact, I was far better of in that navy career I played before, where I payed on salary, and did occasional pirate hunts for governours.

Suggestion:
Perhaps, with now several ways of getting leadership, all of them needs to be rebalanced considering the fact, that some players may make use of several of them.
While salary and articles are exclusive - one can not use both at a given time - the talking to people and doing quests can be additionally used. Talking to people is quite harmless as it is, so perhaps slightly decreasing the leadership rewards for quests and salary and signing articles might do?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As I see it, just one source of Leadership skill is not enough. So if you depend on the Salary/Divide the Plunder one, you should start lagging behind.
So to compensate, you're going to have to talk to people, do Pirate Hunting quests or the sidequests that Don Lasagnetti is now adding back for the other storylines.

 

[Skyworm]

Fully agreed.

Please excuse if I am pressing a role playing point of view to far here ... but I see a problem here.

As you describe it, one must play Mr. - or Mrs. Niceguy all the time.
Talk to any peasant at street, help any damsel in distress, do kind tasks for the troubled governours, help people you don't even know, deliver messages all over the caribbean ... and so on.
It's hard to successfully play a more selfish, egoistic, and mean type of character with this. You can not even sell plunder at enemies merchants when not being a "hero".
Basically, I'm fine with that, because I generally like to play nice guys.

But I see there may be a lack of options for evil and mean characters. Would a Blackbeard save a damsel in distress? Would Barbossa deliver a package to the other end of the caribbean? Most likely not.

Perhaps we need more things like that "Hard labours of an Assassin". And now here's my question:
Is it difficult to design quests, if being completely inexperienced with modding at all? I think I have some ideas in my mind, just wonder if I would be able to make them real. I am tempted to give it a try ...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well, I DID make the pirates not deal with you if you ARE a nice guy. So you have to be a bit evil for them, at least.

Quest writing? It is probably one of the easier things to do if you start out as simple as simple can be.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'm marking this as "solved" as all the code related to this is now in place. Will need to be further balanced though.

For certain, I'm dividing all XP gained by 2 as I got a bit too much XP the first time I paid salary, especially considering that the maximum will be 10 times more.

 

[Skyworm]

Well, here too, with that game ended now, some observations.

Bit more than 3 month only this time, still about 1,000,000 to be devided.
Crew were very happy.
But this time, leadership bonus was only +51%.
I understand that those 379% was bit too much, but 51% ... gnaaah.
Want more!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I only halved the value compared to the previous release. But 3 months instead of 6 would ALSO have halved it.
Was your crew elated with the plunder or not quite that enthusiastic? That would reduce it further still.

Note that the Salary Leadership skill has been halved the same as the Divide the Plunder value, so they still match up.

 

[Skyworm]

That maybe.

The crew was "overjoyed" the first time, and only extremely happy" the 2nd time. The number of each crewmans share was different though, 8000 in the 1st and 2800 in the 2nd. That was caused by the much smaller ship (and crew number) the first time ... a Schooners 80 to a Fast Galleons 300+.