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Abandoned Realistic Cargo Mod Beta Version Update 2

Thanks guys :onya I'll use the data on the 1669 Von Hamburg had to do the same for the Dutch Lineship. I'll use the GM veiwer stats for the Espadina Gunship and come up with something.
 
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lots done today thanks to the help of my roomate Charles. We got a bunch of ships that needed their bm calculated in the can such as the Kreyser/Aurora/Fast Merchant and the Dutch built, 60 gun and Escort ships three cheers for Algebra! :cheers

Only one problem ship today the Fragata Latina netted all kind of weird stuff on the internet Mi español es un poco oxidado but I believe Fragata Latina means latin frigate on further discovery of Ships.Init it is described as a Portuguese Fast Frigate of 32 guns. Is there a specific ship she's modeled after? found a nice Portuguese 32 gun fifth rate called the Dona Maria II http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22618 but I won't use the data from her until I hear back from you guys.
 
J Norrington said:
Only one problem ship today the Fragata Latina netted all kind of weird stuff on the internet Mi español es un poco oxidado but I believe Fragata Latina means latin frigate on further discovery of Ships.Init it is described as a Portuguese Fast Frigate of 32 guns. Is there a specific ship she's modeled after? found a nice Portuguese 32 gun fifth rate called the Dona Maria II http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22618 but I won't use the data from her until I hear back from you guys.
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Again a bit of a fantasy ship, if I recall. She uses the regular corvette hull, so should probably be similar to the... Aurora I think it was?
 
Happy Easter Everyone! Almost done with the Ship part of the mod have about 15 or so left to calculate should resume work tomorrow and hopefully finish off the ship editing part. It's come to my realization that I'm going to probably have to alter a few scripts in game and tweak the prices a little. Shouldn't be that hard I will hopefully have the Mod tested and ready for release by the end of the month don't want to count my chickens before they hatch though.

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So i'm finished with the ship editing except for one the Cursed Corvette couldn't find her in Ships.Init. Gonna go through Ships.Init from top to bottom later this evening to make sure I got every ship recalculated. For most of the ships the cargo size was doubled there were only a few ships that lost cargo space. The Tier 1&2 ships had their cargo multiplied tenfold as it should be those ships were made to be able spend 8-9+ months at sea without need of resupply. Tomorrow I will start editing the scripts for cargo in the game as well as alter the prices in the store. Since now most ships cargo capacity will be doubled it seems fair cutting all the goods price by half for balance since trade will become way more profitable now. Also might tweak the amount of goods in the store for those nasty shipyard delivery missions if I'm not mistaken the store,tailor, and shipyard missions all run off a script that takes the cargo space of your ship into account?. I Also will need to alter the goods in Warships and Traders at sea. Lots to be done but I'm still hopeful I'll be able to release a Beta version at least by the end of this month.
 
Now then. Have you taken the weight of the cannons into account? POTC does not take them into account at all so a ship with no cannons performs the same as on fully loaded with cannons.
 
Huge amounts of cargo space on large navy ships sounds quite odd from a gameplay perspective.
Those ships were never used as merchants of course and in the game there is no need to spend half a year at sea either.
So I'm not sure we should be giving the player the option to do either of those things.
 
Hylie: No I added just the Tons Burthen (bm) to the ships I might go back later and add the cannon weight but for now it's the Tons Burthen minus crew weight, cannon, tackle, etc. I've run some basic calculations for the cannon weight for most of the ships it's about 1/4 of the (bm). I could run an average weight for the crew but finding the weight of ropes/sails/etc on most of these ships is gonna be hard to impossible.

Peiter: I don't see why not if a player wants to use a warship as a trader then why stop him. Adding the extra cargo space makes some of the warships more multipurpose. It eliminates the need for a fleet supply vessel something you probably needed in potc if you wanted to field a first rate or two. 3 to 4 engagements and your out of gunpowder. I don't see the need for 9 months of food in game at sea but I always found the need to resupply at every port tedious and with your 800+ crew warships that chew through food and only 5000 cargo space it's kind of nice to have the extra space. I can send you the Ships.Init file so you can take a look?. I don't think any of the numbers for cargo I entered are "game breaking" the ships still cost the same you have to put in the effort/gold to get them (unless you cheat) so I don't see the problem. Adjusting the price of goods in game will balance out any issues having the extra cargo space.
 
J Norrington said:
Peiter: I don't see why not if a player wants to use a warship as a trader then why stop him. Adding the extra cargo space makes some of the warships more multipurpose. It eliminates the need for a fleet supply vessel something you probably needed in potc if you wanted to field a first rate or two. 3 to 4 engagements and your out of gunpowder. I don't see the need for 9 months of food in game at sea but I always found the need to resupply at every port tedious and with your 800+ crew warships that chew through food and only 5000 cargo space it's kind of nice to have the extra space. I can send you the Ships.Init file so you can take a look?. I don't think any of the numbers for cargo I entered are "game breaking" the ships still cost the same you have to put in the effort/gold to get them (unless you cheat) so I don't see the problem. Adjusting the price of goods in game will balance out any issues having the extra cargo space.
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I am mainly thinking that if large dedicated naval vessels can work wonders for trading too, then what gameplay purpose is there to having dedicated merchant ships?
Of course that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with such a change. Realism is realism after all and in real life there were trade vessels as well.
The main reason for that, I suspect, is that trade vessels simply are cheaper.

But anyway, only actual gameplay will tell us the effect of these changes. I'm just asking questions as they occur so at least we can try to think about them in advance.
 
J Norrington said:
Peiter: I don't see why not if a player wants to use a warship as a trader then why stop him. Adding the extra cargo space makes some of the warships more multipurpose. It eliminates the need for a fleet supply vessel something you probably needed in potc if you wanted to field a first rate or two. 3 to 4 engagements and your out of gunpowder. I don't see the need for 9 months of food in game at sea but I always found the need to resupply at every port tedious and with your 800+ crew warships that chew through food and only 5000 cargo space it's kind of nice to have the extra space. I can send you the Ships.Init file so you can take a look?. I don't think any of the numbers for cargo I entered are "game breaking" the ships still cost the same you have to put in the effort/gold to get them (unless you cheat) so I don't see the problem. Adjusting the price of goods in game will balance out any issues having the extra cargo space.
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If I understand this correctly, you propose to significantly increase the cargo capacity of big battleships or ships of the line.

So I complete "Tales of a Sea Hawk" and help myself to Silehard's flagship, Sovereign of the Seas; or I find some enemy fleet which contains one of these super-ships and take it. Then I sail into an enemy port, destroy the fort, and stuff the expanded hold with free gold and silver from the store. After a night in the tavern or in someone's house, I return to the store, sell back all that gold and silver, stuff the hold with food and ammo, then go to another enemy colony and do it again. Repeat until disgustingly rich. Adjusting the price of goods won't do anything to change that, except that if you make food more expensive than gold, I'll just steal that from the store instead. Meanwhile, anyone starting a new game is in trouble as he has not much gold and therefore can't afford to feed even his small crew.

There are already some ships with both good firepower and good cargo capacity - the Endymion, for one. But generally there should be a distinction between fighting ships which can carry enough supplies to feed themselves for a limited time, and trading ships which carry lots of cargo and not much firepower. If that means you need to bring a supply ship, so be it - that's probably realistic. Personally, I get my ammo free from captured ships, and I need to go to port frequently anyway in order to sell said captured ships. By the time I finished "Tales of a Sea Hawk" I was sailing around with the Black Pearl, the Sovereign of the Seas, and possibly one of Silehard's battleships from the battle of Bridgetown, leaving me with one or two free slots for prize ships. No supply ship was needed.
 
No worries Peiter thanks for looking out. I don't think there's much to worry about as far as traders go most of the trader vessels won't be outpaced cargo wise by warships until tier 4-3 with a few exceptions as they were built to trade and could often carry more cargo than a warship and as you said are cheaper. The tier 3-2 ships will of course have more cargo space but will take awhile to get. As far as the tier 1 ships are concerned if potc is anything like aop2 you may never see one the entire game lol took me 5 months to get a Victory in Aop2.
 
Grey Roger: Yes precisely I have changed all the ships in the game to their realistic cargo capacity's and yes essentially you could plunder ports over and over with a super warship but it wouldn't make you that much richer than before since I'm not increasing the price of goods, I'm making them cheaper. It actually will help the player early on since goods are cheaper and most of the earlier game ships will have more cargo capacity.
 
Methinks the whole cargo capacity thing will cure itself when the weight of 108 4,000 pound cannons and their crews are added. And that is all high up weight, not down in the holds. Remember the Vasa!
 
Just sayin' that I don't have any real desire to automatically calculate a dynamic added weight based on calibre and number of cannons and amount of crew and then subtract that from the total cargo capacity.
That sounds like a substantial pain to code in because it probably influences all sorts of things all over the place.
 
Trudat! It is much easier to just subtract them from the raw tonnage manually. Although COAS does do the automatic calculating of weights for cannons. Adding and subtracting cannons there does change the cargo capacity.
 
I reckon it is possible to do that in PotC as well. And it would certainly add gameplay potential too as that would create a trade-off between cargo capacity and cannons/crew.
So I am certainly not opposed to the idea and in fact would welcome it being done. I'd even be willing to assist in tracking down the relevant code and giving some suggestions here and there.

But since we don't have any active "coders" here except me, basically right now "we want something done" means "I have to do it". And I don't particularly like that situation....
 
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