PotC Build Mod Ship Cleanup

[Pieter Boelen]

The luggers become quite tricky. There is seven skins for the same model. I want to keep at least two, maybe a few more, but NOT 7 - that is too much.
So which ones do we want to keep? Here's some of my thoughts:
Lugger1 - Since this has been the starting ship forever, I've gotten SICK of seeing this skin; let's drop it!
Lugger2 - I quite like the unpainted look of this
Lugger5_44 - Rather weathered, but not bad - seems like an old Lugger6_44 (see below)
Lugger6_44 - Bright light-blue colour looks quite nice and different from the rest
LuggerCT - Looks a bit too similar to Lugger1 for my liking
LuggerCT2 - It's... different for sure. Not sure if I like it
LuggerCT3 - Fairly unremarkable colour scheme; reminds me of Cutter3_18 even though it's not exactly the same

How is this for a first suggestion of the luggers to keep?
Lugger1 - Use Lugger6_44 skin instead
Lugger2 - Keep stock game skin
LuggerCT - Use LuggerCT2 skin of account of it being different to the others

That would lose one stock-game skin, add one by Rafe Bligh and one by Catalina, all three being quite different.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Schooner-wise, I tried to apply the Schooner3_44 hull to the SchoonerWar1_18, because otherwise the SchoonerWar1_18 uses the same skin as the schooner1.
Unfortunately the required locator-swapping corrupted the hull file, causing a beeping ship. Other idea: Put the Schooner3_44 in the place of the Schooner2 altogether.
Then Schooner1 and Schooner2 will have the same hull, unfortunately, but the SchoonerWar1_18 will have the other one.
Do we even want to keep the SchoonerWar1_18 for gameplay purposes or can we just lose her altogether?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Lots of post, lots of questions.

I find the class 4 fluyt of war to be a desirable ship and would like to see her kept. You have not mentioned the light pinnaces at all. They are poor models that I generally avoid.

Historically there were lots of small ships and not many large ships, so I like the idea of lots of luggers. Do more models mean more of that type in the game? If not, then sure lose some.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I find the class 4 fluyt of war to be a desirable ship and would like to see her kept.

Sure, we'll keep her. Then we'll do what I was thinking of and apply the Fleut3_44 texture to the Fleut2 and do away with the actual Fleut3_44.

You have not mentioned the light pinnaces at all. They are poor models that I generally avoid.

I had those listed in the file to keep them. They're not that bad, are they? They've got cabins modeled into them now.

Historically there were lots of small ships and not many large ships, so I like the idea of lots of luggers. Do more models mean more of that type in the game? If not, then sure lose some.

Although more ships does mean a higher chance of them appearing, we can also achieve that by increasing their chance values. Then we don't need to have so many different copies of them.
At the moment, I've got the following luggers up for dropping:
Lugger6_44
LuggerCT
LuggerCT3
That still leaves us with four of the original game based luggers, along with the lugger3 from AoP and the LuggerVML, which gives us 6 in total. Seems enough to me.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Then on the subject of frigates:
Frigate1 - Based on real Russian frigate model with accurate colours; keep this
Frigate2 - Green and gold could pass for a Dutch ship; rename to NL_Frigate
Frigate3 - Now uses FrigateNKSup skin, which I don't like very much; drop this
Frigate4_44 - Looks like a US navy skin, but the US already has several frigate-type ships. Drop this
Frigate5_44 - Quite nice skin based on the Frigate2 model; put this in place of the renamed Frigate2
Frigate5_46 - YET another British Royal Navy frigate skin; drop this

This will leave us with:
FR_Frigate
NL_Frigate (former Frigate2)
NL_Frigate47
Frigate1
Frigate2 (former Frigate5_44)
RN_Heavy_Frigate
SP_Frigate
US_HeavyFrigate

We definitely don't need MORE than that and it even still seems like a bit much. Especially considering that Holland gets two skins based on the Frigate2 model.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The Manowars are quite tricky too; we've got quite a few of them and it's not too nice a model to begin with, so we can certainly lose some.
Manowar50_gub - Exactly the same skin as the Manowar_gub? WHY??? Have to lose this.
Manowar_gub - Used as Silehard's ship at the climax of the Standard storyline, but I don't even like the colour.
Should choose another ship for storyline purposes that stands a chance against the cursed Black Pearl! The HMS Victory is not period-correct here, is she?
Manowar_spa - Weird somewhat-bright colour scheme; lose this. Though I think I like the colour better than the above two, so we can also replace those with this one
Manowar1 - Not bad colour, though Manowar4 is similar but better; put Manowar4 skin in its place?
Manowar2 - Quite nice, actually; should keep this.
Manowar3_44 - Not sold on this one. It's different from the others though, so might be worth keeping.
Manowar4 - Good skin, keep this.
PO_Manowar - We were talking about using this colour scheme for more Portuguese ships, so I suppose we should keep this.

Final result:
Manowar_gub - Use the Manowar_spa skin
Manowar1 - Use Manowar4 skin
Manowar2 - Keep
PO_Manowar - Keep

Does that seem enough? And what ship to use for the Sovereign of the Seas?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Then onto warships:

Warship1 - Rename to PO_Warship and keep?
Warship2 - Skin too similar to RN_Fourth_Rate, drop this
Warship3 - Weird colour; drop?
Warship4 - Another British Royal Navy skin = drop
Warship5 - Rename to SP_Warship and keep?

HeavyWarship - Looks rather British Royal Navy like - drop
US_HeavyWarship - Keep on account of the US otherwise not having many large ships

Lineship1 - Keep for the sake of her being the stock game Black Pearl
Lineship2 - Weird colours; drop or use for Portugal? Doesn't look quite right for that though
Lineship3 - Looks RN again = drop
Lineship4 - Even more obviously RN = drop
Lineship47 - Good skin; keep this!
Lineship5 - Don't like the model shall we drop this and NL_Lineship2 too?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Do we want to keep the Pinnaceofwar40g for gameplay purposes? She uses the same skin as Pinnace2 and we've got no other skins to use.
I think the NL_Pinnace47 or NL_TwoDecker47 are based on the Pinnaceofwar40g.

Also, NL_Pinnace47 and NL_TwoDecker47 look VERY similar. The only difference is the TwoDecker seems to have additional textured gunports.
We should lose one of the two. Which one? There is also the NL_SevenProvincien which is ALSO based on the stock game pinnace model.
If we consider that one to fill the role of Dutch pinnace of war, I think we should lose NL_TwoDecker47 altogether.

 

[Armada]

Blimey, where do I start?

Firstly, no objections about the Corvettes or any other ships I don't mention below. Your plans look good to me.

For the Xebecs, I still have a high-detail model lying around that Craiggo gave me along with a bunch of other ships/textures ages ago.
It carries 14 broadside guns and has swivel chasers, and locators for stern chasers... but no guns there.
It needs seeing to in Maya, since it probably has reverse lighting, but it could be a good candidate to eventually replace some of the stock Xebecs.
I'll post a screenie sometime, once I've sorted out my upload quota.

As for Frigates:
- Frigate1: definitely keep this; I've already started upgrading her to the lines of the Rossiya frigate, and will post some screenies once I have something presentable...
- Frigate2 and NL_Frigate47: I'm happy for both of these to be Dutch textures, but if I had to choose, I'd drop Frigate2 in favour of NL_Frigate47.
- Frigate5_44: agreed on filling the role of Frigate2
- FrigateNKSup: any suggestions for this ship? Effectively she's just a variation on the rigging, and could pass off as an earlier frigate than the others.
- All others except national versions: agreed to drop.

And now the Manowars:
- Manowar50_gub: NOT exactly the same as Manowar_gub's texture; has white stripes across the side.
Looks kind-of US-like in style, but is too old-fashioned to be a US ship, so drop anyway.
- Manowar_spa: possibly rename to SP_Manowar?
Spain can't use the SanFelipe for all time periods, after all, so they need a (slightly) more modern hull, despite its lack of detail.
- Manowar2: agreed to keep. Maybe give to France as FR_Manowar for early time periods?
- Manowar3_44: maybe rename to RN_Manowar, for same purpose as FR_Manowar?
- Manowar4: could this be used as Silehard's ship? We don't have any high-detail British 1st Rates of that time period, and this is more distinctive than the above texture.
- PO_Manowar: agreed to keep.
- All others: should be dropped, I'd say.

I agree with your suggestions for the Warship and Lineship models, but here's a couple of notes:
- HeavyWarships: maybe use either the Bellona or Superbe model for this purpose? Repaints easily done.
- Lineship5 models: I suppose the Poseidon model replaces this class, anyway, so we can drop these.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The light pinnaces do have cabins. But other than that, they have the flagpole modeled onto the hull so I can't see them well, and their masts have the "model could not be read" bug, so they are loaded with fals and have ropes ending in midair. So there is no point in even trying to repair them.

The pinnace of war 40g is a fairly common ship and should be kept. The only real alternative to it is the light east indiaman or Batavia. Also she has different deck and rigging from the others.

All of the Dutch pinnaces need work, and there are too many anyway, so the two decker, which is very rare, can go.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Find attached my current version of the ship clean-up list. Please let me know anything you might come up with based on that.
I'll continue renaming and moving around and cleaning up. Once I'm done, I'll upload all the model files so you can use the GM viewer to see what I'm keeping.

For the Xebecs, I still have a high-detail model lying around that Craiggo gave me along with a bunch of other ships/textures ages ago.
It carries 14 broadside guns and has swivel chasers, and locators for stern chasers... but no guns there.
It needs seeing to in Maya, since it probably has reverse lighting, but it could be a good candidate to eventually replace some of the stock Xebecs.
I'll post a screenie sometime, once I've sorted out my upload quota.

We can certainly look into that when you get to it.

- Frigate2 and NL_Frigate47: I'm happy for both of these to be Dutch textures, but if I had to choose, I'd drop Frigate2 in favour of NL_Frigate47.

Indeed. Not sure if it's warranted to keep two. I do like the Frigate2 skin and it's different enough from the others, but it's too green to not remind me of the other Dutch ships.

- FrigateNKSup: any suggestions for this ship? Effectively she's just a variation on the rigging, and could pass off as an earlier frigate than the others.

At the moment, I've swapped FrigateNKSup and Frigate3 completely, including rigging if I recall. FrigateNKSup is now PiratFrigateSup.
Do we want to keep the original FrigateNKSup rigging? I was intending to remove that ship altogether, but we can save the rigging and apply it to one of the other frigates we keep.
Maybe we can put it on Frigate2 or Frigate5_44 instead, which we do intend to keep? Which of the two though then?

- All others except national versions: agreed to drop.

ALL of them? I can see us losing SP_Frigate, but don't mind keeping FR_Frigate, RN_Heavy_Frigate and maybe also US_HeavyFrigate.

- Manowar50_gub: NOT exactly the same as Manowar_gub's texture; has white stripes across the side.
Looks kind-of US-like in style, but is too old-fashioned to be a US ship, so drop anyway.

Ah, yes. Now you mention it.
What if we keep the Manowar50_gub texture and put that on Manowar_gub instead?

- Manowar_spa: possibly rename to SP_Manowar?
Spain can't use the SanFelipe for all time periods, after all, so they need a (slightly) more modern hull, despite its lack of detail.

Can do, if you think she looks proper Spanish. Or proper enough.

- Manowar3_44: maybe rename to RN_Manowar, for same purpose as FR_Manowar?

I was intending to keep Manowar4 for that purpose. That's a clear RN skin.

- Manowar4: could this be used as Silehard's ship? We don't have any high-detail British 1st Rates of that time period, and this is more distinctive than the above texture.

Agreed; I like that one.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The light pinnaces do have cabins. But other than that, they have the flagpole modeled onto the hull so I can't see them well, and their masts have the "model could not be read" bug, so they are loaded with fals and have ropes ending in midair. So there is no point in even trying to repair them.

The pinnace of war 40g is a fairly common ship and should be kept. The only real alternative to it is the light east indiaman or Batavia. Also she has different deck and rigging from the others.
All of the Dutch pinnaces need work, and there are too many anyway, so the two decker, which is very rare, can go.

Hmm... I really don't want two ships using the same hull texture. We could put the rigging and stats onto the real Pinnace2, leaving us only with the regular pinnace1 as normal pinnace.
Alternatively, how about losing the NL_Pinnace47, which is a regular pinnace, and keeping the NL_TwoDecker47 which looks close to the same, but is based on the Pinnace of War 40g?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

About pinnaces, pinnace1 is the good one. As in there are no errors with it. Both pinnace2 and pinnaceofwar40g have the "model can not be read" bug on the hull.

This really isn't too important as the only differences are the bowsprit and the flagpole. And the number of guns.......Pinnace2 has the flagpole attached to the mizzen mast, which makes it more desirable to me.

For the NL pinnaces, they both have the "model can not be read" bug. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. That may be why I never got around to re-rigging them. The others all have better rigging. Talk about lazy...the rigging from pinnaceofwar40g will work perfectly on both of them.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This is about Batavia. I looked in GOF and found a sailorpoints file for Batavia there. Converted it and then added it to the other files so that Batavia should have a crew now. I haven't seen one yet, so can't say for certain that it works, but it should.

Batavia1 gives bad GA and I couldn't fix the flags, so I still want that one gone, but now maybe Batavia2 can be kept.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Indeed, we should lose Batavia1. And thanks for the walk file!

 

[Jack Rackham]

I have not followed this topic in detail but I wonder:
As I have used a lot of ships already in my quest, could you come up with a list of which ships
you are removing from the game? :huh
If so I can fix things already now.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

When I get to removing ships, I'll check all code files to see if they're used somewhere and put a similar ship in its place if that's al-right with you.

 

[Jack Rackham]

Excellent Pieter. The ships I have used would be in my TempQuestCharacters.
If the lightpinnace I have used as QAR please give me another lightpinnace instead.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

We were talking about removing the Light Pinnaces altogether, though I haven't yet decided if we really will.
The QAR, eh? I take it you don't want to use the film version? Not sure what other equivalent ship we've got...

 

[Jack Rackham]

I really think a lightpinnace is perfect in size and cannons (before Teach increased the number).

First I imported it myself to the game, then I noticed there had come 3 texture variations
(but not the original one). Ok ok ok I choosed one of those.

I like that ship. :cry