Politics (but let's keep it civilized)

rupertlittlebear · Jun 11, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 11 2009, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Korea is a problem. They canÂ´t be spoken to, they won't listen and they just want to be no 1 bully in their class for WHAT ever reason that I dont understand. What is their goal, what do they want to achieve?
And what about Vietnam, they are not exactly angels either, are they?</div>Righteous Indignation

remember

Water Boarding <span style="color:#FF0000">Officially Sanctioned by the USA</span>

um

err

"Pot calling Kettle Black"

Pieter Boelen · Jun 11, 2009

Uhm... care to explain a bit further?

Stallion · Jun 11, 2009

Well, we live next to Koreans, and lets just say that if they're a prime example of their race, perhaps a preemptive nuking of their homeland might be a good thing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> They're the most obnoxious, snotty, noisy people I've ever met. Quite simply put, they all think they're gods.

Everyone was really nice to them when they first moved in, yet straight off they looked down on all their neighbours. You'd think if they're really that good, they'd be living in some gated knobville, rather than this older, slightly run-down working-class area.

Wow, we've made it to page three without anybody going bonkers! We may have a record on our hands. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Although I think I may have just started something. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :facepalm

" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

Thomas the Terror · Jun 11, 2009

Never, Never trust an Asian <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />.

Just kidding. But how things are going in Korea, well it isn't good. That Kim Jong Il guy, is really an evil bastard. I wonder what would happen if someone would assasinate both him and his son. Would the nation go bonkers, or would they blow up zee entire world.

Something has to be done, and it has to be done by China. If the US does this, then you would be again the bad guy. And it is time for the Chinese to show, on whose side they are really on.

rupertlittlebear · Jun 11, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 11 2009, 12:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Uhm... care to explain a bit further?</div>
Previous Vice President on Record as re-defining Torture as acceptable when used by the USA.

International Red Cross has filed War Crimes charges.

How can the USA afford to have any Righteous Indignation

Google is your friend.

LordDrow · Jun 11, 2009

Okay, now not every American is the stuck up hoity-toity freaks that so many of our folks make us seem like.

As for myself, the closest description I've ever come across for my actual political and personal views come from one of Robert A. Heinlein in his book, 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress'. The gentleman Dr. de la Paz describes himself as a Rational Anarchist, though that is something of a trancendental desctiption. Nevertheless, he describes this as a person who follows the ideal of Live and Let Live, augmented by the ideal of An eye for an eye. Basically it boils down to this, if you treat me nicely and with respect, without attempting to take away my freedom of choice, I will do the exact same for you. But if you attempt to harm those I consider friend and family or try to cause me or mine any difficulty without due cause, you will have stepped beyond the limits of what is allowable and should expect to be treated in exactly the same manner by me as you choose to treat me.

Now I am NOT a violent individual and quite abhor violence, but like John's quote noted on the previous page, if there is going to be a fight then I will do my utmost to be involved protecting 'my sides' interests.

Outside of that, I have no clue WHY there are nationalistic borders within the world anymore.

We all live on the same damned chunk of rock in the same TINY solar system in a miniscule and probably dust covered corner of a galaxy that is one of likely thousands of galaxies just like it.

Why we can't all get along with one another and better ourselves as HUMANS I just don't get.

Anyhow, I'll post again here soon, just busy at work and posting in my slack moments.

Cap'n Drow

Old Salt · Jun 11, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rupertlittlebear @ Jun 11 2009, 01:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Japan cannot threaten N. Korea
Japan is a violently anti-nuke society (for good reason)
Conventional weapons don't stand a chance against Korea.</div>
Yes, they do have good reason. But they also have a militaristic past that will take more than a few generations to wipe out. There are already voices in their government that are advocating chucking their pacifist constitution that was instituted after WW2 and allow their military to be built up. If Japan feels like they are not under the American umbrella anymore, they may start taking matters into their own hands. They can quickly go nuclear if they wanted, as probably can S. Korea. China, which has a lot of experience dealing with a fully armed Japan, does not want to see that at all.
The signs may already be there. China has, for the first time, signed onto U.S. written sanctions aimed at North Korea which includes ship searches, the very act that the north said they would consider an act of war. That is a major step. China has vetoed similar legislation coming out of UN in the past.
Keep an eye on China if North Korea becomes even more provocative than it has been in the near term. And keep an eye on Japan, because China will be, and that more than anything else will be dictating their moves.

Peter Willemoes · Jun 11, 2009

Righteous Indignation. <span style="font-family:Verdana">I did read a cambridge philosopher called Whitby once, but dont think this is by him:</span>

<span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Times New Roman"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"Anger: Violent, vindictive passion or emotion aroused by injury or insult, real or imagined, and directed against the cause thereof; sudden and strong displeasure; wrath; ire." "Indignation: The state of being indignant; a feeling involving anger mingled with contempt or disgust, aroused by injustice, meanness," etc. (<i>Standard Dictionary</i>).</div></span>

<span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Verdana">What worries me most, is that I see this in a lot of other stuff too - own national politics as well as european.</span>
</span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">Cap'n_Drow wrote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, now not every American is the stuck up hoity-toity freaks that so many of our folks make us seem like.</div>
</span></span><span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">You are absolutely right. USA is a huge country, hence the variety of people and opinions is similar large. People are basically the same all over the world, with their differencies bound in genetical heritage and cultural afflictions alone. As the world is becoming smaller and smaller, global thinking has tied us more and more together into a global nation with a common culture to a certain point. I stopped travelling in vain and settled, as the experience itself of travelling is heavily influenced by my own state of mind and what I want to find <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Did you ever think of it this way: borders was not made to keep everybody else out, rather the opposite? </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">As the world moves and civilization develop towards larger populations and smaller integrity boundaries, pressure is growing on human nature, but it does not seem to develop with same speed, if at all. </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">I mean, there is no logic but biology to explain, why we still gonk eachothers heads with clubs like 10.000 years ago. All I can see, is sometimes this happens with the bible or koran in the other hand, sometimes the basic civil/military right to act - whatever righteus indignation mankind can find to act true to his human nature!
So yes, I must unfortunately conclude, that borders and people divided into groups </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%">satisfies a basic instinctive need that</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"> makes us feel safer, to feel united before civilized. It may be the only thing that works for us <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Stallion wrote:
</span></span></span></span><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wow, we've made it to page three without anybody going bonkers! We may have a record on our hands. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Although I think I may have just started something. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :facepalm

" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /></div>
Haha you certainly did! And I do share your surprise! You think you know people - and then again.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> (the positive way)
<span style="font-family:VerdanaTrebuchet MSHelveticaGeneva"> </span>

rupertlittlebear · Jun 11, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Old Salt @ Jun 11 2009, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>If Japan feels like they are not under the American umbrella anymore, they may start taking matters into their own hands. They can quickly go nuclear if they wanted</div>Japan going nuclear is like George Bush Sr. going "flower child".

Keith · Jun 11, 2009

Well having lived overseas most of my life, I must say that I disagree that most people are the same.

There are large groups of people who really do have different priorities than the rest of us.

Boiling it down though, it's all about education or lack of that causes most of the problems. In many places the education is consciously blocked to ferment ideas that are counter productive.

I couldn't imagine living in a world without national borders, I agree it's an idyllic thought but it would almost instantly be abused and all the hard work you put in to make your little spot great could be undone in a matter of minutes if people who don't appreciate your efforts moves next door.

In the end, we are not all the same & not all cultures are equal and deserving of the same respect.

(living away in 3rd world countries for so long has made me pretty pessimistic about humanity)

Peter Willemoes · Jun 12, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rupertlittlebear @ Jun 11 2009, 10:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>How can the USA afford to have any Righteous Indignation</div>

If you get away with it. Know its retorical. Couldnt resist.

Old Salt · Jun 12, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rupertlittlebear @ Jun 11 2009, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Japan going nuclear is like George Bush Sr. going "flower child".</div>
There are no givens in the world, especially when people feel threatened. Expect the unexpected.

Before we go back and forth ad nauseam with this lets just say that we have different opinions on the matter, and you know what they say about those. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Captain Maggee · Jun 12, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 12 2009, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327696"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Now is the time, you tell me she is your former girlfriend and come up with a lot of juicy stories + pics, we can sell + move to Bahamas and release our own game. If weÂ´re not killed beforehand, he is an ex-SEAL <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /></div>
Sorry to burst your bubble Peter, but she was not a former girlfriend of mine <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
Considering she is 37 and I'm only 18 I think it would have been a bit weird <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> So I am safe from death but we won't be able to move to the Bahamas and realease our own game (I think the Build Mod is a great game anyway myself and has made PoTC worth playing and worthy of the name)

I'm guessing Australia will get a very good write up then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

As for the Korea issue my brother went to South Korea and went to the border of North/South where there is 3 guards on each side all with the job of shooting their opposite numbers if they try to cross and also to shoot their own men if they try and cross (bit stuffed up really in my opinion) and if either country has a man try and cross it will <i>most likely</i> break the ceasefire

Keith · Jun 12, 2009

Japan, like all countries will end up nuclear. The whole nuclear is evil debate is run by people who want everyone to think reactors are like Chernobyl. The technology has come light years and is very safe but you won't hear them say that.

Peter Willemoes · Jun 12, 2009

Keith: Nothing is safe about nuclear power, only the things you dont know and feel - yet <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
Alright, I know you cannot populate the world with windmills and wavebreakers to generate enough power to everybody and the only solution is nuclear power. But I would prefer that to nuclear power, if it was realistic. Unfortunately, its the only alternative right now.

Yeah, I think there is a difference between "Japan going nuclear" and "bandit countries going nuclear". Thinking, Japan's history will repeat itself as a consequence of former events, is like waiting for Germany to rise again for the 4th Reich. NOT gonna happen.

As goes for the bandit countries like N.Korea, Iran, China, Pakistan etc I am not blue-eyed. But considering their seize, I am sure the diversity in population will bring several persons with an IQ above 96 forward - those nuclear weapons were never meant for pro-active use, only protection from international intervention.

rupertlittlebear · Jun 12, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keith @ Jun 11 2009, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Japan, like all countries will end up nuclear.</div>
Doesn't Japan already have a nuke plant? (and severe social protests marked the event)

But Japan going Nuclear is a different kettle of fish.

Japan <span style="color:#FF0000">having</span> a nuclear weapon is unimaginable.

(so she never can pose a threat to N. Korea)

Old Salt · Jun 12, 2009

I believe Japan has several dozen nuclear power plants. I know they started building them in the 1970s. But I disagree about Japan never possessing a nuclear weapon. The one constraint they have had since the 1950s (to keep their military from being rebuilt) was the assurance that the United States would defend them from any aggressor, namely the Soviet Union. But the prospect of having a whack job sitting right across the Sea of Japan and armed with nuclear weapons and the technology to deliver them will stir debate about national defense. That's what I believe may prod China into taking a harder stance with North Korea, as in fact they have already begun too with the new U.N. resolution.

Captain Maggee · Jun 13, 2009

I agree with Old Salt here.
Even though the two nuclear bombs were disasters and in my opinion not necessary, if North Korea keep going how they are going Japan will want to be able to defend themselves rather than relying on the USA (no offense to America but you are quite far away)
Also if USA do have to fire the nuclear bomb at Korea it will quite likely start World War 3 which will most likely destroy the world. However if it was Japan who launched a bomb to defend themselves there is a chance it won't go into another World War. Just a war where countries allied to Japan will come and help them.

That is all my own opinion feel free to disagree <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Pieter Boelen · Jun 13, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 12 2009, 11:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=327979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Alright, I know you cannot populate the world with windmills and wavebreakers to generate enough power to everybody and the only solution is nuclear power.</div>If you look around you at hurricanes, lightning, ocean currents, freak waves and what not,
you'll see that there IS plenty of energy available. And renewable green energy at that. We just need to make it work for our purposes.
But it IS there, so one day we should be able to put it to good use, no?

Of course the day that happens, it will GREATLY mess up world economy. After all, the one thing with ACTUAL value is energy (who REALLY cares about gold???) and when energy becomes available pretty much for free... I don't think any of the current industrialized countries actually WANT that to happen.
So nobody's going to be seriously working on getting there until there is no other option because fuel is REALLY running out.
But before that happens, people will probably be fighting over the remaining fuel first. Which isn't necessary, considering the energy is there for us to use anyway.

Pieter Boelen · Jun 13, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Captain Maggee @ Jun 13 2009, 03:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=328253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Also if USA do have to fire the nuclear bomb at Korea it will quite likely start World War 3 which will most likely destroy the world.</div>Has anybody ever read "On the Beach" by Neville Shute (I think it was)?
That book started after the nuclear World War III and ended together with all human life on this planet.
I could quite imagine this happening, but sincerely hope we'll be smarter than to let <i>that</i> happen!

Politics (but let's keep it civilized)

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