• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Politics (but let's keep it civilized)

<!--quoteo(post=332831:date=Jun 25 2009, 04:51 PM:name=Lazarus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazarus @ Jun 25 2009, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332831"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=331062:date=Jun 19 2009, 10:46 PM:name=Commodore John Paul Jones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Commodore John Paul Jones @ Jun 19 2009, 10:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=331062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Americans are too lazy and unwilling to make big sacrifices...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You are obviously too young and ignorant to appreciate the insult of this statement.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody is ever too young or ignorant to appreciate a good insult.
 
Commodore John Paul Jones is American himself, by the way. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=332781:date=Jun 25 2009, 03:23 PM:name=Stallion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stallion @ Jun 25 2009, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps the UN should offer to send all Koreans on a free trip to the Moon, and just forget to tell them they only half-filled the tanks. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> They're like a bunch of obnoxious, attention-seeking little kids. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All Koreans? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Wouldn't LiL' Kim and his cronies be enough? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Ha, a good attempt to dull the edge Rupert, but history is not on your side. Ignorance is not an excuse for any generation.

Those of us Americans who have sacrificed will tend to argue.
 
Picking on him wont make it any better. This is pubtalk in a good mood. Pubtalk never gets personal or is intended to hurt individuals.

Would it be proper to ask, what those sacrifes of yours are?
 
<!--quoteo(post=332873:date=Jun 25 2009, 08:41 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 25 2009, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332873"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would it be proper to ask, what those sacrifes of yours are?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You can ask, but without knowing you, all that I will tell you is that I am a combat vet, and I come from a long line of combat vets.

For other interesting things that Americans have sacrificed for, I woud suggest that you read a few history books.
 
<!--quoteo(post=332883:date=Jun 25 2009, 07:36 PM:name=Lazarus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazarus @ Jun 25 2009, 07:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For other interesting things that Americans have sacrificed for, I woud suggest that you read a few history books.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
however if you are in the mood for a good farce

watch the History Chanel.

They get most** of their facts bass slackwards.

BTW, this thread is getting cutting edge for a lock.

Tone down the seriousness.





<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->** If not all<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
 
Indeed... this whole discussion is not to be taken personal. We got it up to 5 pages without the need of it being locked. Let's keep it going. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
The last thread about these politic matter was closed down when Lazarus was involved. The first four pages was all good. Please don't spoil it by taking things personal. NOT ALL Americans are lazy otherwise this colony couldn't grow out to a world power. But as with all big nations, laziness is always present and this is the downfall.

Roman Empire => Got lazy and slide into decadency then being slaughtered by Barbarians.
Seven Provincinces (we were one of the richest and strongest countries after being freed from the Spaniards) => Got lazy, were conquered by Napoleon and got our asses handed by the Brits while a century before we kicked them.

There are probably a lot more examples, but these ones spring to my mind.
 
Holland => Got lazy and didn't settle Australia and let the Brits do it and look how good Australia is and it could have been more Dutch <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=333015:date=Jun 26 2009, 08:55 AM:name=Thomas the Terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thomas the Terror @ Jun 26 2009, 08:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=333015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The last thread about these politic matter was closed down when Lazarus was involved. The first four pages was all good. Please don't spoil it by taking things personal. NOT ALL Americans are lazy otherwise this colony couldn't grow out to a world power. But as with all big nations, laziness is always present and this is the downfall.

Roman Empire => Got lazy and slide into decadency then being slaughtered by Barbarians.
Seven Provincinces (we were one of the richest and strongest countries after being freed from the Spaniards) => Got lazy, were conquered by Napoleon and got our asses handed by the Brits while a century before we kicked them.

There are probably a lot more examples, but these ones spring to my mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've made my last comment in this thread. Your free to have your "Political" discussion without my meddling.
 
I don't think Lazarus was spoiling for a fight. He responded to a point that he took issue with, but wasn't nasty about it. We shouldn't try to sanitize the conversation too much, otherwise it isn't a debate.

Americans have been carrying that reputation for a long time. During the 20s and 30s if you asked the average European that question you probably would have gotten a response that Americans were self-indulgent and paid off others to fight their wars for them. But the following decade proved that assumption to be false. Maybe it is the Atlantic Ocean that is the cause of this misunderstanding, because it kept us separated for so long. And even though now the world is much smaller, these observations still persist somewhat.

I think the majority of people in all of these countries we are discussing would rise to the occasion in times of crisis. The question is will any of us rise to the occasion before a situation becomes a crisis?
 
Also, it is time for the world to move on and get rid of that prejustice.
Us europeans are not exactly ignorant airheads and we know and care a lot about what is going on over there - more than we will probably admit, being the new underdog. You are a young nation and carry a bit of everything from us (europe) and you are only about 400 years old - still struggling for your righteous place in the world and will probably be for a long time. From a historical perspective, its only natural. Your(our) enemies that comes along with this, included. Lets start with the 4th century:

We(Scandinavia) sacked england (1st time around) The frisians(the dutch) occasionally got flooded and headed towards germany. Returning for home, we found the frisians at our doorstep because the germans chased them north. So we killed them, only to find germany in trouble holding Rome off, so we of course united towards Rome (having already sacked everybody else, they were more or less "everybody else").
Once we got rid of all our enemies, we started fighting ourselves and warlords exterminated eachother for a couple of centuries, until we finally stood divided into smaller kingdoms like today. Much easier to oversee and with defined territories that every skullcrushing neanderthall could understand, there was peace. But only for a while - already bored again in 8th century, we were all off to england to sack and plunder some more, while the norwegians sacked scotland. The swedes went their own way down in Russia. We ended up meeting in Ireland, but of course we all had to see what the Franks (france) had to offer before we headed home. While Paris burned, our trading partner Byzantium called for paid help with the turks. War, more war and happy days. Then Rome filled for the "nice boy in class"-position and found it was best, if everybody in Europe were christians, too. They turned german/european emperor Frederick against us, but he promised not to invade us if we let a word or two pass to the swedes and norwegians to become good christians. Not exactly talkative neighbours at that moment, so our king raised a stone at the border, saying he made us all christians. Frederick either believed it (or, after a quick glance at his viking lifeguard behind him he decided to believe) and went off again. Of course, they eventually found out we were just kidding centuries later, and another premise to being left alone was to kill the bad, bad and very heathen Baltics. So we did. Still more or less heathens ourselves, we returned home carrying our current flag with a big fat cross in it, approved by the pope. Hail to the new world order and the sanctuary of the hyprocrates down south <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

As you probably can tell, this may not all exactly be the truth and nothing but the truth, but you get the picture I hope <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
At least, you know the rest and it's been a constant struggle ever since, as history tends to repeat itself - look at the map and you will not find one single european nation, that has not once fought with everyone else - or twice <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Only since the last 200 years, things calmed down here. If looking into history is of any use as indicator for what will come, you have a lot of shit coming your way for the next dozen centuries. Hope that will not be the case, as history also shows that things and relations change over time.
 
I don't think we will spend the next few hundred years invading and being invaded by Canada and Mexico. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> At least I hope not. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> And unfortunately the past two hundred years have not quieted down in Europe as we had two of the worst wars ever fought in the 20th century and major hot spots around the world that could flame up and any time right now.
But your point is well taken, history does have a habit of repeating itself and that's because people for the most part tend to forget past mistakes and therefore replay them all over again.
 
Yeah they were world wars and of course started in europe. Still a slowdown, only two wars in one century, not calculating war on Balkan and Iraq in. Some wars in earlier centuries lasted 30 years.
 
I do hope that humanity on the whole is at least a <i>slow</i> learner, rather than <i>no</i> learner.
Sometimes I tend to believe it's the latter, but we can't all be THAT stupid, can we? ... Can we...? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

I do seem to have noticed that the more people you put together, the more stupid the "mob" will be.
UNLESS everybody has the same general idea in which direction we want to go. Such as here on this forum.
Then it does work fine. But on a larger scale, that'd mean we'd need people to not be selfish anymore,
but get people to all want to move in the same forward direction. Onto the future and not back to the past. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=333280:date=Jun 27 2009, 05:34 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 27 2009, 05:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=333280"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But on a larger scale, that'd mean we'd need people to not be selfish anymore,
but get people to all want to move in the same forward direction. Onto the future and not back to the past. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, people seem incapable of NOT looking back to the past to right old wrongs. Hatred seems to linger. The unrest in the Balkans is testimony to that, as in other parts of the world also.

<!--quoteo(post=333269:date=Jun 27 2009, 04:01 AM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 27 2009, 04:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=333269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah they were world wars and of course started in europe. Still a slowdown, only two wars in one century, not calculating war on Balkan and Iraq in. Some wars in earlier centuries lasted 30 years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't afford to fight a conflict on the technological scale of WW2 or even WW1 for more than a few years or believe me we probably would still have these things going on for twenty years or more. The atomic bomb kind of slammed the door shut on WW2 because that war may have dragged on till at least 1947 since Japan most likely wouldn't have given up until Tokyo itself fell.
MAD (mutual assured destruction) has kept a major war from starting up again since then, but the drawback is that these nukes can find their way into the hands of some maniac who won't think twice about using them, whatever the consequences.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top