Need Help Pc Upgrade

[Jelle]

Hey!

I just got a new computer. I love it, because I can play in 60 fps now. (On my old pc i was lucky to have 30...)
Specs:
-System: Windows 10 64-bit
-Processor: Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q9450 @ 2.66 GHz
-RAM: 4 GB (I'm planning to upgrade this to 16 GB)
-GPU: AMD Radeon HD 5800 series
-Motherboard: XFX XFX nForce 780i 3-Way SLI (Socket 775)
Picture of Speccy included:

Spoiler

I play a game Besiege and it does lagg. I heard from @Pieter Boelen that you guys may know a program that I can use to see what causes the lagg. So here it is

EDIT: As you can read further down, two gigabytes of the four are broken.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Hylie Pistof or @Thagarr, do you happen to know how to find out what piece of hardware needs to be upgraded to improve performance in certain games?

 

[Armada]

I'm not sure about that specific game, but looking at your specs, the hardware is a few years old, now.

For casual gaming nowadays, I'd suggest investing in an Intel Core i5 processor, or one of the newer (and cheaper) AMD processors, depending on your budget.
That would improve the performance significantly in most games, compared to your current hardware. However, you would also need to replace your motherboard with a newer one that has the right socket for your chosen processor, and make sure your power supply is sufficient.

Upgrading to 16GB of RAM is probably overkill, unless you tend to have a lot of programs open at once or do a lot of rendering or high-end gaming.
For your purposes, I'd say 4GB is absolutely fine.

 

[Thagarr]

Ahoy TechnicJelle, good to see you mate!

This may be a lot of information, and I apologize for the wall of text, but I want to be a thorough as possible to help you out. I agree with Armada, the most bang for your buck would be to replace your motherboard and CPU, that might also require you to replace your power supply as well though, as newer motherboards and CPU's have different power requirements. Armada's recommendation for an Intel Core I5 is spot on, they are good, cheap processors that have quite a bit of punch. You can get an AMD motherboard and processor cheaper though, and they do have better gaming performance than Intel. Either new processor would have a built in GPU that will outperform your current graphics card. That would require a new motherboard and probably a new power supply as well. To be honest, it would probably be cheaper for you to buy a new computer then to try and upgrade your current one. There are some things however that you can do to yours to keep yours going for a while.

You also need to keep in mind your operating system, I'm assuming that Windows 10 was upgraded from 7 on this machine? If that's the case, 10 is now tied to your current motherboard. At the very least, you would have to call Microsoft to transfer your license to a new motherboard, and they may require you to purchase a retail copy. I have no idea how picky they are going to be about this.

On the plus side however, your current Core 2 Quad is a quad core processor and still has quite a bit of computing power. I have a desktop that I built in 2008 that still is able to play a lot of modern games, it runs Cities Skylines just fine with no lag at all. Though some games do require reduced settings of course. It has an AMD Phenom CPU and an AMD 5770 GPU. The motherboard, CPU and graphics card still work fine. I am having issues with mine at the moment, it still runs, but my issues are power related. I have put a lot of money into it over the years to keep it going.

After having a quick look at your current motherboard specs, the XFX nForce 780i only supports a max of 8 gig, and for what you plan on doing, 8 gig should be plenty. If you do upgrade your memory, you need to be sure to get the correct timings on the memory modules. According to Speccy, it appears that you have one 4 gig stick of ram already, so you would just need another 4 gig stick of ram. Your motherboard supports DDR2 800. If you can find out what manufacturer your ram is, I would recommend getting the same brand, or just buying 2 new 4 gig DDR2 800 modules.

You have an SSD and that is great! That really helps your performance quite a lot, at least with your Windows start-up. Yours is quite small however, and I would recommend at least getting a 250 gig SSD. The hard drive controller on your motherboard is only SATA II and is limited to 3gps, but you can buy a PCI expansion board that will upgrade you to SATA III, which is 6gps. That would give you a big performance boost!

As for the game that you are having lag issues with, Besiege, your current system should handle that without a problem. Lag issues can be tough to track down sometimes and can be caused by a great many things. I am assuming that your Steam games are stored on your old mechanical hard drive? That would cause some lag. Programs running in the background can also be a big source of lag. You also might try installing DirectX 9, that may help some performance issues. BTW, I am going to have to have a look at that one, it looks fun!

I hope that helps some mate, please feel free to ask any questions if you have them, we are always glad to help!

 

[Hylie Pistof]

That system may be new to you but it is 7 years old. It will struggle with anything remotely new but especially if it is single threaded. By single threaded I mean it only uses one core of the CPU. That is a 4 core CPU. POTC is a single thread game and it looks like this: Note that with this 8 core CPU only one core is loaded and at times it is maxed out. That is also a 5 ghz CPU, not a 2.66 ghz CPU. I am not knocking your hardware as I speak from experience. I used a Q6600 at 2.5 ghz until January 2013.

To find out just how it is running you can open Task Manager using the alt,ctrl,delete buttons and then select the Performance tab. That will show your CPU, memory, and hard drive use.

For the video card, MSI Afterburner is free and shows more information than you want to know.

For frame rates while playing I use Fraps. It is free. You should not notice any lag until the frame rate drops below 25 or so.

 

[Jelle]

I'm not sure about that specific game, but looking at your specs, the hardware is a few years old, now.

That's right.

(...) make sure your power supply is sufficient.

It's 750 watt I think. Is that enough?

Upgrading to 16GB of RAM is probably overkill, unless you tend to have a lot of programs open at once or do a lot of rendering or high-end gaming.
For your purposes, I'd say 4GB is absolutely fine.

I am planning to do YouTube when I'm a little bit older. And I will do a lot of high-end gaming, I think.

To be honest, it would probably be cheaper for you to buy a new computer then to try and upgrading your current one.

For me, it's half the fun to open my computer and pull out the parts and stick the new ones in.

You also need to keep in mind your operating system, I'm assuming that Windows 10 was upgraded from 7 on this machine?

Nope. I bought the Windows 10 legally for exactly $0,00 .

I would recommend at least getting a 250 gig SSD.

Those are really expensive! I don't think that's the first thing I'll do, because of that.

The hard drive controller on your motherboard is only SATA II and is limited to 3gps, but you can buy a PCI expansion board that will upgrade you to SATA III, which is 6gps. That would give you a big performance boost!

I would do that if I knew what an expansion board is...

As for the game that you are having lag issues with, Besiege, your current system should handle that without a problem.

It doesn't really lag, but if I download a kind of big thing my computer is going to not like it. I downloaded a helicopter once and I had to slow down the game, (That's one of the brilliant parts of Besiege.) because it was lagging a lot. And it's only a snalk helicopter! There are some HUGE things though.

I am assuming that your Steam games are stored on your old mechanical hard drive?

I don't think so. I don't have a lot of them anyway.

You also might try installing DirectX 9, that may help some performance issues

How?

BTW, I am going to have to have a look at that one, it looks fun!

What looks fun? Besiege? Ooh it is AWESOME!

Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[Thagarr]

That's right.

It's 750 watt I think. Is that enough?

It is not just the wattage that you need to check, it is the power connectors themselves. Newer motherboards and CPU's have different power requirements than older components and require an additional power socket for the CPU. If your power supply was built in the past 6 or 7 years, it might be ok, but you need to know the exact power requirements of a new board and the exact power outputs of your supply. Also, the sleep and active states of newer CPU's vary as well, this will mean that the voltage to the CPU will fluctuate depending on load. Older power supplies do not recognize those power requirements and will continue to send the same voltage. You will need a regulated auto-switching power supply for newer hardware.

I am planning to do YouTube when I'm a little bit older. And I will do a lot of high-end gaming, I think.

If you are planning on doing high-end gaming, and recording it, you will definitely need a new rig. The one you have now will work for the basics, but if your looking to do things like Metal Gear Solid, or really any modern FPS, you will need new hardware. Best to start saving your money now.

For me, it's half the fun to open my computer and pull out the parts and stick the new ones in.

Yup! Me too mate! My Dad was a HAM radio operator, so I grew up around electronics. I used to take things apart like radios just to find out how stuff worked, sometimes I didn't exactly get them put back together properly though...

Nope. I bought the Windows 10 legally for exactly $0,00 .

That is quite a bargain! The way Microsoft treats it's Windows licensing though, your copy is still tied to that particular motherboard. If you get a different motherboard, you will have to call Microsoft and transfer the license.

Those are really expensive! I don't think that's the first thing I'll do, because of that.

They have come down quite a bit recently because of new technology about to hit the market soon. I am not sure what retailers you have over there in Europe, but here in the US, you can find a 250 gig SSD on Newegg for under $100. You should be able to find similar prices on Amazon. That is about what you would pay for two sticks of 4 gig DDR2 800.

I would do that if I knew what an expansion board is...

Expansion boards plug in to free PCI slots to expand the ability's of your computer. The AMD Radeon HD 5800 in your computer now is an expansion card. Here is an older Youtube video that explains some of the basics of computer components.

It doesn't really lag, but if I download a kind of big thing my computer is going to not like it. I downloaded a helicopter once and I had to slow down the game, (That's one of the brilliant parts of Besiege.) because it was lagging a lot. And it's only a snalk helicopter! There are some HUGE things though.

Lag is a tough thing to track down, there are also different types of lag, which makes things even more confusing. One of the best ways to stop computer lag is to stop unnecessary programs from loading to begin with. in Windows 10, you can do that from the Taskmanager. Here is another quick Youtube Video :

I don't think so. I don't have a lot of them anyway.

I was just curious, your mechanical hard drive is much slower, and that can cause noticeable lag. There isn't a lot of room on your SSD, which is why I recommended upgrading to a bigger one.

How?

Microsoft, in their infinite stupidity has made this even more difficult to do in Windows 10. If you download DirectX 9 from Microsoft, the installation program will tell you that it can only be installed on older versions of Windows and can't be installed on 10. This is an outright lie by Microsoft, they are just trying to force everyone to use Direct X 12.

You should try the Taskmanager stuff first, but if that doesn't help, try installing DirectX 9. To install DirectX 9, you need to download the DirectX Runtimes from Microsoft HERE, extract the files to a new folder on your mechanical drive. Go into that folder and look for a file called "DXSETUP.exe" right click on that file and choose "Run as Administrator." Maybe Pieter could help you with this stuff when he has some time.

What looks fun? Besiege? Ooh it is AWESOME!

Yup!

Thanks for all your help guys!

Your welcome!

Feel free to ask if you need us to clarify anything.

 

[Jelle]

They have come down quite a bit recently because of new technology about to hit the market soon. I am not sure what retailers you have over there in Europe, but here in the US, you can find a 250 gig SSD on Newegg for under $100. You should be able to find similar prices on Amazon. That is about what you would pay for two sticks of 4 gig DDR2 800.

Nice! That is better than €400,00! And I just took a look and 16GBs of RAM should be around €200,00?

Best to start saving your money now.

I am. For ages already.

That is quite a bargain! The way Microsoft treats it's Windows licensing though, your copy is still tied to that particular motherboard. If you get a different motherboard, you will have to call Microsoft and transfer the license.

I've got it on a disc, so I should be able just to reinstall it, shouldn't I?

 

[Thagarr]

Nice! That is better than €400,00! And I just took a look and 16GBs of RAM should be around €200,00?

You want to make sure that the memory your are looking at is DDR2 800, anything else will not work in your computer.

I looked up your motherboard, XFX nForce 780i, on Newegg.com and found THIS board. According to the tech specs there, it only supports 8 gig of ram. I tried looking up your board on XFX'x website, but they had no information on it, probably because it is so old. I am not sure if that is your exact model or not, but I was able to track down a motherboard manual HERE, but again, I am not sure if that is your exact motherboard. If your brave enough to take the side panel off your computer, the exact model number may be silk screened on your motherboard, but it might be tough to see depending on how much clutter is in your case. If you do decide to have a peek, check and see exactly how many of your ram slots are actually full.

I am. For ages already.

Great, it's a good habit to get into early!

I've got it on a disc, so I should be able just to reinstall it, shouldn't I?

It makes sense that it should be that easy doesn't it?? Unfortunately, Microsoft has decided that the computer that you install Windows 10 too should be the only computer, or motherboard, that is licensed for that particular copy of Windows. That means that if you want to put it on another motherboard or computer, you will have to call Microsoft and ask them to transfer the license to the new motherboard.

 

[Jelle]

Here are some pictures of the inside of y computer. I've got a little window in the side.

 

[Thagarr]

Interesting, it appears like you have two different types of RAM in there now, all 4 memory slots are full, but three of the sticks have heat spreaders on them. Each one of those sticks is obviously 1 gig, 16 gig may be possible. Thanks for the pics, I'll do some more digging when I get the chance and see if I can track down your exact board. There is some glare unfortunately and I can't make out the writing on that white sticker, but I will see what I can come up with.

 

[Jelle]

When I have a bit more time I will screw open the sides and make better pictures.

 

[Jelle]

Here are some pics. I hope this is enough.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Two comments.
1) It is possible that at some point in the past it had an air cooler on it that had clearance problems with the 1st ram stick and the heat spreader was removed so it would fit.

2) That Thermaltake Power supply is not the best. It is ok for that low power system but should be replaced when upgrading next time. It doesn't put out what it claims and it delivers "dirty" power. I had an 850 watt version and replaced it with a Seasonic for more real power and cleaner, smoother power.

 

[Thagarr]

Ah yes, much better pics, thanks mate! I think Hylie is on to something, it does appear that first heat spreader was removed. Those sticks do appear to all be Ballistix 1 gig of the same type. I'll do some more digging and see if I can find you a better answer on the max RAM.

 

[Thagarr]

Ok, after a bit of research, i was able to find an old review for this board HERE. I was also able to track down a Youtube video about your motherboard, with some info in it. It's basically a commercial from Tigerdirect, I wouldn't buy anything from this guy though!

I didn't realize from your pictures just how big that Northbridge heatsink is, that thing is huge!

It looks like that manual that I posted earlier is indeed for your motherboard. Unfortunately, the your motherboard does not support 16 gig of RAM.

It will only support 8 gig max, 2 gig is the maximum memory module size it will support in each slot. To get 8 gig, you will need 4 2gig DDR2 800 sticks. You will need 4 like THESE from Newegg, Kingston is about the most reliable memory that I have found.

 

[Jelle]

Thanks

And a question:
Would these all fit together?

Spoiler

MSI GeForce GTX 970 GAMING 4G - Prijzen - Tweakers
Item
MSI X99A GAMING 7 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

 

[Thagarr]

Yes, they most certainly would work just fine together. That particular MSI motherboard only supports Intel Socket 2011-v3 Haswell-E processors, not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that, but it does limit your choice a bit. It will not work with your current processor, as it is an old Socket 775 chip, you would need a new processor as well. They do have a couple of older Socket 775 motherboards listed, but they all have a maximum supported memory size of 8gig or less, it is a limitation with that particular chipset.

This is the cheapest Haswell-E they have in stock at the moment : Intel Core i7-5820K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.3 GHz LGA 2011-v3 €344,99

With a new motherboard, of course, you will need new memory, such as this : Kingston 16gig DDR4 €92,99

And a new auto-switching power supply : SeaSonic G-750 SSR-750RM 750W €97,99

Adding up what we have so far, including the €229,99 motherboard and €357,99 graphics card, and your build is at €1,123,91. Building computers can add up quickly!

You can get much cheaper components and save quite a bit of money if you choose a slightly less powerful graphics card, CPU and motherboard. For example, this : MSI GeForce GTX 950 GTX 950 €140,99. It is not quite as powerful, but it is less than half the price as the other one, and 2 gig would do what you need just fine. And this motherboard : MSI Z170A PC MATE LGA 1151 €105,99.

And this CPU : Intel Core i5-6500 6M Skylake Quad-Core €176,99. Again, not quite as powerful or as expensive, but just as capable, and much faster than your current system! With the same power supply and ram, that comes to €614,95! A little less than half the price. And if that was still too much, you could cut out the graphics card and run with the graphics processor built in to the Intel chip! Certainly not the best, but it would work for most things(except POTC!!), or run with your current AMD 5800 graphics card.

I know all this can be quite confusing, even to me sometimes, and I have been building systems for over 30 years. Please feel free to ask me any questions. The above example was just a quick search, I could probably do better with more time. I hope that helps some mate.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Agh! Stay away from the terror of Intel chips for your graphics cards!!!

 

[Armada]

Agh! Stay away from the terror of Intel chips for your graphics cards!!!

Again: it's mainly PotC that doesn't mix with Intel graphics. Most modern games run fine with it, especially since Intel graphics have improved significantly in recent years.

Sure, if you're aiming for Full HD graphics on High/Ultra settings, you still need a dedicated video card, but Intel's on-board solution is fine for more casual gaming.