Included in Build Naval/Privateer Promotion Steps

[Pieter Boelen]

As for a model, have we anything that looks like this?

I'm not too familiar with the various models we've got. There is Gherarde de Jong (or something) that is used as admiral who promotes you when you select a Dutch navy character in the Free Play storyline.
But other than that....?

You can have a look through the portraits we have, though those don't always show the correct textures.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

How's this?

The character model is a copy of "man8" with a custom portrait file since we don't have a proper texture for de Ruyter.
Same for Horatio Nelson and Sao Feng, actually.

 

[Grey Roger]

According to the Wikipedia article, he was born as Michiel Adriaenszoon. "De Ruyter" was perhaps a nickname which he earned a bit later.

Nelson starts off at rank 5. So other options for De Ruyter might be to start him at rank 3 in NL_Derfflinger Haas in 1641; or rank 4 in NL_NeptunusE Neptunus in 1652, which also puts him into the First Anglo-Dutch War. Of course, if he's doing things in the Caribbean then he's not beating the English in the Battle of Plymouth in August 1652.

What is "Bestevaer"?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Since you mentioned his specific rank 1 ship, I set him up to start with that one.

What is "Bestevaer"?

His nickname according to Wikipedia.
Doesn't make sense to me though, because I think Bestevaer was actually another person altogether.
Oh well...

 

[Grey Roger]

Hornblower has multiple models so you can start at different ranks. Perhaps do the same for De Ruyter. You could use that portrait and write-up for a level 4 start with NL_NeptunesE Neptunus in 1652, then use this portrait and a write-up about his early years for the level 1 start.

Meanwhile, here's "NK.c" with De Ruyter's ships added.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Hornblower has multiple models so you can start at different ranks. Perhaps do the same for De Ruyter. You could use that portrait and write-up for a level 4 start with NL_NeptunesE Neptunus in 1652, then use this portrait and a write-up about his early years for the level 1 start.

Certainly possible. Though I don't have any particular intention of doing that work.
The more simple and repetive work I have to do, the less bugs can be fixed and the less features can be improved on.

Meanwhile, here's "NK.c" with De Ruyter's ships added.

I thought I did that already with yesterday's ZIP upload?

 

[Grey Roger]

You've added a few of De Ruyter's ships, either specific to him at a couple of ranks or by overwriting the ships which I'd assigned for everyone. Whereas what I've done is give De Ruyter a suitable ship from his career at each promotion, differently named and sometimes different type to what other officers get. But before posting that version, I wanted to check that I hadn't made a typo which would crash the game - it wouldn't be the first time. The version of "NK.c" with my additions for De Ruyter has now been proven safe, so that's why I've uploaded it today.

The more simple and repetive work I have to do, the less bugs can be fixed and the less features can be improved on.

That is why I thought I was the one doing the promotion ships in "NK.c".

Now to deal with Spain...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You've added a few of De Ruyter's ships, either specific to him at a couple of ranks or by overwriting the ships which I'd assigned for everyone. Whereas what I've done is give De Ruyter a suitable ship from his career at each promotion, differently named and sometimes different type to what other officers get. But before posting that version, I wanted to check that I hadn't made a typo which would crash the game - it wouldn't be the first time. The version of "NK.c" with my additions for De Ruyter has now been proven safe, so that's why I've uploaded it today.

Ah, right! I'll use your version instead, of course!

That is why I thought I was the one doing the promotion ships in "NK.c".

But who is to do these starting characters? Of course I have asked other people to pitch in (several times), which didn't quite happen.
While it has been only a few here or there, I didn't mind. But when this takes off, it could easily become a fair bit of work too.
Ideally we should have a texturer involved because I don't quite like copying character models and assigning a different portrait file only.
When that is one model per character, it isn't so bad. But if we need several individual De Ruyter outfits, it becomes quite sad when they are just copies of existing models.

 

[Grey Roger]

Anyone who wants more non-British characters is welcome to volunteer to create them. For now at least, I'm concentrating on finishing off the promotion ships in "NK.c", but if someone wants to suggest another naval hero and is willing to back up the suggestion with a name and a list of the hero's ships, I'll incorporate the ships. The volunteer will still have the responsibility of making the character playable, though.

The only reason I even suggested De Ruyter is because he's Dutch and I thought you'd like him. If there's only to be one outfit for him then, all things considered, the level 4 start in 1652 with Neptunus is probably best as that ties in with the write-up about the Anglo-Dutch war.

Incidentally, De Ruyter did actually show up in the Caribbean somewhat later in his career, in the Spiegel in 1665. (I've given De Ruyter a ConvoiShip of that name at rank 8.) Which means if @Bartolomeu o Portugues wants to extend either the "Bartolomeu" or "Assassin" storylines, De Ruyter is there at about the right time to be used for them.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Fair enough!

If there's only to be one outfit for him then, all things considered, the level 4 start in 1652 with Neptunus is probably best as that ties in with the write-up about the Anglo-Dutch war.

That should be easily done by just setting his model's minrank to 4 instead of 1 in initModels.c .
I would indeed like for there to be more outfits, but without a texture artist to actually make some real ones, that is probably not worth it.

And to be fair.... There is a HUGE amount of possible starting options.
What are the chances of people actually noticing ALL the hard work that would be put in to make each option as good as it can be?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That may explain why Holland's ranks go:
7: Kapitein ter zee (British Commodore)
8: Commandeur (British Rear Admiral)
9: Schout-bij-Nacht (British Vice Admiral)
10: Vice-Admiraal (British Admiral)
11: Luitenant-Admiraal (rank 11 no longer used)
12: Admiraal (rank 12 no longer used)

Or do Dutch officers go to ranks 11 and 12, while others stop at 10?

I just (finally) noticed that Holland didn't have ranks 11 and 12 set in NK.c .
But Holland DOES have those. So as it is, you won't get any new promotion rewards on your last two promotions for The Netherlands.
Not much of an issue though. There are much less ships available to choose from than for England, especially in the first and last period.
And good luck to anyone getting that far!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Grey Roger: Your latest Holland changes are now included in here: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-3-5-internal-wip-for-testing.24817/
I made some slight changes of my own, mainly to correct some ch/pchar instances.
Most of the CheckAttribute lines for "professionalnavy" are also gone again because that is all handled by this line further up:

  // Fleet
   if (!CheckAttribute(pchar, "professionalnavy")) return; // only for navy characters
   switch(LocationNation)

 

[Grey Roger]

Which means I need to copy what I've done so far for Spain in my version of "NK.c" into your version of "NK.c"...

It might be better if you just tell me when there's a significant error, e.g. "pchar" needs to be replaced by "ch" or vice versa, partly so there aren't several versions of "NK.c" with different modifications floating around, and partly so I get to learn from my mistake. Minor details such as removing superfluous checks for "professionalnavy" can wait until the whole promotion ship section is finished, then I'll turn the finished product over to you for a final polishing. (I've done a bit of polishing of my own, removing lots of indent tabs from lines where you merged a ship-giving line onto an "else" line but didn't get rid of all the tabs, so the actual command was indented off the screen. )

What's the difference between "GetMyFullName(PChar)" (was used for detecting specific characters) and "GetMySimpleName(PChar)" (now used for the same purpose)?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I don't intend to make any further changes for a while.

Full Name returns your character title too so might not always end up working properly.
Simple Name simply returns your name so should be a safer function to use.

 

[Grey Roger]

I just (finally) noticed that Holland didn't have ranks 11 and 12 set in NK.c .
But Holland DOES have those. So as it is, you won't get any new promotion rewards on your last two promotions for The Netherlands.
Not much of an issue though. There are much less ships available to choose from than for England, especially in the first and last period.
And good luck to anyone getting that far!

That is correct, you will not get any new promotion rewards for reaching ranks 11 and 12. Neither does anyone else. Holland is hard enough getting rewards for ranks up to 10 due to a shortage of heavy warships, which is why Dutch officers get an extra ship at rank 9 while other nations' officers at rank 9 get a new personal ship. So I've taken ranks 11 and 12 back out again. (You can maybe arrange for some other reward for ranks 11 and 12 elsewhere in "NK.c", but they're definitely not getting any new ships.)

Do any other nations go up to ranks 11 and 12? (They shouldn't. Ranks 11 and 12 are excessively high for a player character, the reason being anyone at that rank isn't commanding a ship cruising around the Caribbean, he's commanding a desk in his nation's Admiralty back in his nation's capital city. The reward for rank 11 is therefore immediate end of game. )

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All nations technically have 12 ranks. And I think if you play long enough, you will get there.
Should get harder as you go along though so I don't know if anyone realistically could manage it.

 

[Grey Roger]

You get lots of promotion points for clobbering a fort, and since you have several big battlewagons at rank 10, that shouldn't be too hard. The only problem might be if a commissioned officer only has the option of raising his nation's flag after conquering a colony, which means if you rely on that to get your promotion then you'll run out of targets, especially if you've picked a nation with few enemies. But, as I said, rank 11 is a desk job, which means your promotion reward should be a congratulatory message and an end of game. (Rank 12 is the chief of your nation's entire navy!)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

But, as I said, rank 11 is a desk job, which means your promotion reward should be a congratulatory message and an end of game. (Rank 12 is the chief of your nation's entire navy!)

Technically you are of course correct. But that doesn't make for good gameplay.
One of the first mods ever done for the game was to allow free play to continue after the main quest.
I don't think we should actively end the game upon promotion to rank 11 now....

 

[Grey Roger]

The obvious solution is not to allow promotion to rank 11. Which is what I thought already happened, since nothing above rank 10 was defined in the promotion rewards for England, and I used those as the basis for the other nations. I'm trying to arrange that promotion rewards are approximately similar for all nations so you don't get a significant advantage by picking the right nation. So nobody is getting promotion ships beyond rank 10.

Besides, by rank 10 you've already got the biggest ship your nation has to offer, plus two companions. If I add a third companion then Holland is stuffed as it already gets a third companion to make up for the lack of 1st rate ships. Basically, there's no scope for ship rewards beyond rank 10. You're welcome to figure out some sort of other reward, e.g. a fancy uniform if you want to design a fleet admiral uniform for each nation.

Actually, I've just had another evil idea, and if we insist on allowing ranks above 10, I'm going to implement it. Because I've just figured out what ship to give someone who's been promoted to a desk job.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If you really want to prevent ranks 11 and 12, I think setting rNation.Ranks.Quantity to 10 in PROGRAM\NATIONS\nations_init.c should do the trick.

Does pose the question of what is the purpose of having a rank 11 and 12 in the files at all.
Perhaps it can be limited to potential quest use only or something.

Actually, I've just had another evil idea, and if we insist on allowing ranks above 10, I'm going to implement it. Because I've just figured out what ship to give someone who's been promoted to a desk job.

Gunboat? GUNBOAT!