Solved Maximum Ship Speed

[Nikitian]

Greetings!

I'm an old fan of Akellas's Pirate games, having played probably all of them, and I was very excited to find this mod and try it out. Several questions arose during the gameplay and were subsequently answered through searching these forums and combing through the mod files, but one problem remains, unfortunately. I suspect that it is not a bug, rather a feature, so I feel ask here rather than at Support or Bug Tracker forums, but I might be mistaken.

The problem is: The ships are extremely slow. I have tested it out with a moderately-loaded Hoy, and a completely unloaded Naval Cutter, as well as observed other ships during Direct Sail trips (which, by one test voyage, appear to be about 2x-2.5x times longer than using the "map sailing" - and I had tailwind for no less than half the journey). My character's navigation skill (modified by compass) is 10 at the moment (is it the upper maximum?), and the ships I've sailed were fully crewed, undamaged, and of low class (no penalty). Yet during all this time I have not seen my speed get to 5.0 (knots?) mark, much less past that - against the theoretical specs of 10.93 for the Hoy and 11.52 for the Naval Cutter. Oh, and the wind has generally been in 20-something park (so no extreme calmness all the time).

I am playing on Build 14 Beta 4, on realism settings. Now, I understand that realism settings mean going a long way away from arcade-like original behaviour, but it feels a bit extreme to me. If the above is, indeed, intended behaviour, could someone point to where it could be tweaked in the mod files?

P.S. I've found one or two similar threads with this problem, but they were inconclusive and several years old (so for a different version of the mod), so I decided to post it anew.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Realistic Game Mode is slower than Arcade for sure. It is realistic, after all.
If you look through the forum, I know there is a thread somewhere where I posted how to get Arcade speeds in Realistic Game Mode.
I can't look it up right now though.

 

[jsv]

Yet during all this time I have not seen my speed get to 5.0 (knots?) mark, much less past that - against the theoretical specs of 10.93 for the Hoy and 11.52 for the Naval Cutter. Oh, and the wind has generally been in 20-something park (so no extreme calmness all the time).

If true, it does look a bit slow to me. 10.93 is not bad for a hoy. With the wind at about 25 it should be more like 7-8 knots when sailing large, I think. At least that's is what I typically get on Iron man.

 

[Nikitian]

Realistic Game Mode is slower than Arcade for sure. It is realistic, after all.
If you look through the forum, I know there is a thread somewhere where I posted how to get Arcade speeds in Realistic Game Mode.
I can't look it up right now though.

Yeah, that's what I expected, except it seemed a little too slow even for realistic speeds. Oh well.
As far as I could find, PROGRAM\InternalSettings.c has the various realism/arcade settings, but unfortunately it appears that only the arcade mode has a speed multiplier (tied directly to the "default" realistic speed) and not the other way around. I guess I could go around the ship files and manually multiply all speeds by fixed amount, but I'm not sure which parameters to edit in that case, and I hoped for an intemediary multiplier somewhere.

If true, it does look a bit slow to me. 10.93 is not bad for a hoy. With the wind at about 25 it should be more like 7-8 knots when sailing large, I think. At least that's is what I typically get on Iron man.

That's what looked strange to me, yes, because based on various forum posts I guessed the intended speeds are higher than that. I'll try conducting some other experiments, but thus far that's it.
Oh, and I don't have any sailing perks; I'll try with those, but I doubt their presence would account for 1.6-2.0x speed difference.

 

[jsv]

Oh, and I don't have any sailing perks; I'll try with those, but I doubt their presence would account for 1.6-2.0x speed difference.

Recently I've been starting plenty of Iron Man games with a Hoy as my starting vessel. I don't think sailing perks exist on Iron Man, at least none is selectable in the beginning.
With a sailing skill of 3-4, half-loaded hold and a couple of performance upgrades (that bring the speed factor from 9-something to 10-something; your 10.93 is pretty good) in a strong (25-30) wind I'm getting something like 4-5 knots close-hauled and up to 9 knots at the best point of sail. In a moderate wind (15-20) it's more like 3-4 and 6-7kt respectively.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As far as I could find, PROGRAM\InternalSettings.c has the various realism/arcade settings, but unfortunately it appears that only the arcade mode has a speed multiplier (tied directly to the "default" realistic speed) and not the other way around.

That's your ticket.
Use tip #3 here: Tutorial - Modding Tips & Tricks | PiratesAhoy!
Search for the exact name of that multiplier in your PROGRAM folder and you'll find where it is used.
Then remove the iRealismMode if-statement around it so that it always takes effect.

Recently I've been starting plenty of Iron Man games with a Hoy as my starting vessel. I don't think sailing perks exist on Iron Man, at least none is selectable in the beginning.

Some perks indeed aren't available on Realistic Game Mode and even more are removed for Iron Man @Hylie Pistof's suggestion.

 

[jsv]

In a moderate wind (15-20) it's more like 3-4 and 6-7kt respectively.

That being said, the conditions are rarely ideal and, on average, if I'm going at 4-5 knots in an approximately right direction, I do not complain

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I think to get up to a ship's maximum speed, the wind needs to be quite strong AND you need to sail at the best "point of sail".
This differs from ship to ship.

 

[Nikitian]

@Pieter Boelen Thank you! For some reason, I didn't expect that that code would be "out in the open". I'll have this method in mind.
For the record (if anyone else would seek this solution): It's in PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c, with ARCADE_MULT_SPEED parameter block.

On the issue: I've tried making a clean install of the game and trying the same on Iron Man. As it appears, yes, I got 6.+ knots with a half-empty Hoy (9.76 speed, by the way) on a starting character, at ~22 wind. Then I tried loading my previous save, got 4.8 knots at about same wind (~22-23); after dumping all of the cargo it finally managed to get to 6.0 speed as well. I guess now I'll know that:
1)It all depends on the ship;
2)"Speed" attribute of a ship doesn't necessarily correlate with actual top speed (or rather, might not be the only parameter to influence it);
3)Upgrades might be essential;
4)Big cargo hold might be a curse rather than blessing;
5)Dumping cargo can really affect the speed, perhaps especially so for the small ships.

Anyway, thank you all for your quick and useful input, it appears that the "problem" was more of a misunderstanding than a bug (as I feared). Now I'll try to adapt to it (and seek better ships), I guess.

 

[jsv]

I think to get up to a ship's maximum speed, the wind needs to be quite strong

Yes, the wind strength in the game is extremely important, at least for those small lateen-rigged traders. They are not much of sailers in weak to moderate winds.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'm not 100% sure if there is an exact 1:1 relation between the speed shown in the interface and the actual top speed in the game.
Best way to test is: Highest wind you can find that isn't a storm + as much as possible empty cargo holds.
Also, Sailing at 10 and all the related Abilities, because some do affect speed.
And then do a full 360 degrees until you find the wind direction that gives you the best speed for that particular ship.

Upgrades should theoretically NOT be factored in as those semi-directly influence that interface value itself.

So while you CAN compare those interface speed values relatively to one another, I'm not sure if their absolute values are very accurate.

@Pieter Boelen Thank you! For some reason, I didn't expect that that code would be "out in the open". I'll have this method in mind.
For the record (if anyone else would seek this solution): It's in PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c, with ARCADE_MULT_SPEED parameter block.

A LOT of the game code is "out in the open". That's why we are still able to mod this game as much as we do after 12 years.

 

[morgan terror]

In my experience the maximum actual sailing speed of a ship is identical to the one displayed in the menu screen, but only under ideal conditions, a 30 knot wind and an empty cargo hold. Sailing close hauled gives you 50% of that speed. The upgrades get applied first, and are indeed visible in your stat screen, after which the cargo is factored in, after which your angle to the wind is factored in (of which the ideal angle is dependant on your ship). The wind strength itself only acts as a multiplier.

Another thing to consider is your maneuvrability. It actually increases if you go faster, though determining that by eye is a lot more difficult. I only happen to know because i closely followed the discussion around modding it in at the time. The logic was that higher speed means a more effective rudder, since there's a lot more pressure to apply.

 

[jsv]

I didn't expect that that code would be "out in the open". I'll have this method in mind.
For the record (if anyone else would seek this solution): It's in PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c, with ARCADE_MULT_SPEED parameter block.

That's a dangerous path to walk. The next thing you know, you have that "Storm Modder" badge and you're spending more time modding the game than you do playing it.

 

[Nikitian]

Hmmm. So what is better, from that point of view, big and (almost) empy cargo hold, or small and full/half-full? (Assuming the same weight of goods loaded in both cases.)
And does ship HP in any way factor in directly correlate with ship's own weight (further reducing the speed)? E.g., ship models with different HP further modified by that past the stated speed attribute.

That's a dangerous path to walk. The next thing you know, you have that "Storm Modder" badge and you're spending more time modding the game than you do playing it.

I'd consider it an honor. I love being able to mod things.

 

[morgan terror]

Hmmm. So what is better, from that point of view, big and (almost) empy cargo hold, or small and full/half-full? (Assuming the same weight of goods loaded in both cases.)
And does ship HP in any way factor in directly correlate with ship's own weight (further reducing the speed)? E.g., ship models with different HP further modified by that past the stated speed attribute.

I would expect a larger hold to be better, since i'd expect it to slow your ship down by how much of a % of your hold has been filled, but i never use trade ships, so i don't know. As for weight, i think it only affects handling, not speed. Could be wrong though. HP should be no part of that. For as far as i know, the weight is stated per ship as an invisible stat, rather than derived from something else. This weight, along with sailing speed, maneuvrability and cargo, is then used to calculate your netto maneuvrability and handling characteristics. This s all from memory and observations though. I never partook in any of the coding for this.

 

[Mirsaneli]

That's a dangerous path to walk. The next thing you know, you have that "Storm Modder" badge and you're spending more time modding the game than you do playing it.

Lol, that is so true

 

[Pieter Boelen]

In my experience the maximum actual sailing speed of a ship is identical to the one displayed in the menu screen, but only under ideal conditions, a 30 knot wind and an empty cargo hold.

That sounds about right. Is that with Arcade or Realistic Game Mode?

That's a dangerous path to walk. The next thing you know, you have that "Storm Modder" badge and you're spending more time modding the game than you do playing it.

Nothing wrong with that.

And does ship HP in any way factor in directly correlate with ship's own weight (further reducing the speed)? E.g., ship models with different HP further modified by that past the stated speed attribute.

Has absolutely nothing to do with it. Ship speed is a value defined in PROGRAM\Ships\ships_init.c .
Then I think there is a "speed depend on weight" factor that also differs between ships.
And the "BestPoint" for relative wind direction that gives you the highest speed.

Actually, you may want to have a look at one of the ship entries in there to get an idea of what differs from ship to ship.

I'd consider it an honor. I love being able to mod things.

You CAN! We all started out not knowing how to do things, but wanting to anyway.
We're here to help.

 

[morgan terror]

That sounds about right. Is that with Arcade or Realistic Game Mode?

Realistic. I think that if i'd play arcade now, i'd be completely lost. Not played that for almost a decade.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Realistic. I think that if i'd play arcade now, i'd be completely lost. Not played that for almost a decade.

Ah, good. So it DOES match up between interface and ingame on Realistic Game Mode then, under ideal conditions.