WIP Have ingredients and money, but can't get apothecary treatement

[Grey Roger]

Look in "initItems.c" for "Alan_Smithee Apothecary Meds". There's a group of five items. The first is leeches, the other four are the components for the HP boost:

• Acetum Saturninum
• Confectio Damocritis
• Tincture of Laudenum
• Turpeth

And now I am thinking, laudenum also features in the "Hornblower" storyline. Not the item, just the name - Captain Sawyer's doctor has been giving it to him regularly, which is supposedly what turns him paranoid. So perhaps some negative side-effect if you take the treatment too often? The first couple are fine, on the third the apothecary warns you that excessive use of laudenum can affect the mind, then the fifth and subsequent doses each drop your Leadership by 1. (That won't bother officers if you're buying it repeatedly for them, unless they're the ones contributing Leadership. But if you ever implement that officer loyalty system, any officer who gets too much laudenum could start losing loyalty.)

 

[Levis]

@Grey Roger do you at one moment kill captain sawyers doctor?
If so I sugest giving him some of that item at least .

Hmm...making the items more common is good I think but the face they don't do anything could confuse people and they will just sell it ...

We could give them some use, like giving you a temporary HP boost or healing a bit. and combined together they will give you a permanent HP boost.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

And now I am thinking, laudenum also features in the "Hornblower" storyline. Not the item, just the name - Captain Sawyer's doctor has been giving it to him regularly, which is supposedly what turns him paranoid. So perhaps some negative side-effect if you take the treatment too often? The first couple are fine, on the third the apothecary warns you that excessive use of laudenum can affect the mind, then the fifth and subsequent doses each drop your Leadership by 1. (That won't bother officers if you're buying it repeatedly for them, unless they're the ones contributing Leadership. But if you ever implement that officer loyalty system, any officer who gets too much laudenum could start losing loyalty.)

Would technically make sense, but I'd propose that to be a new feature for later in Build 15.
There is so much still to be done, it would be a shame to get sidetracked again.

Hmm...making the items more common is good I think but the face they don't do anything could confuse people and they will just sell it ...

That's their problem. I think the item description does contain a hint that there IS, in fact, a use for them.
Is it even possible to sell them at all? I don't think so, actually. Which is fine because that prevents exactly what you describe.

We could give them some use, like giving you a temporary HP boost or healing a bit. and combined together they will give you a permanent HP boost.

Is that really necessary? The game is already relatively easy as it is. That will make it easier.
Plus, as per my comment above, there are enough other things to be done that are far more important.

 

[Jason]

Do know I'm working on a way to use perkpoints to increase the max HP for officers. Maybe that solves your problem too?

Yes that could work.

 

[Jason]

You pay with crew money because that was one of the changes made by @Tingyun.
It used to require personal wealth.

We can always change it back again, of course. The poll is still open, so feel free to vote.
In fact, everybody else is also welcome to vote now or change your vote.

The big question is now: What price is fair for the HP increase?

Well I would suggest move the point increase to what it was before, 21-24, make the price 2-5 gold per point.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well I would suggest move the point increase to what it was before, 21-24, make the price 2-5 gold per point.

So with 20 points, ask for 100 gold? Isn't that almost giving it away for free?

 

[Grey Roger]

@Grey Roger do you at one moment kill captain sawyers doctor?
If so I sugest giving him some of that item at least .

No, you never kill the doctor. The captain himself falls into the hold and there's suspicion one of the junior officers pushed him, but in fact he really did just fall. And you never get to the body because right after he falls over, there's a quest relocation to the next bit of the story, so even if Captain Sawyer has a personal supply, you're not getting your hands on it!

But I wonder if one of each item can be left in suitable locations for the player to find in general game-play, not tied to any specific storyline. That's in addition to their appearance in random chests. Possibly also have a note along with at least one of them, something along the lines of a prescription list, which could mention the rest of the items plus the apothecary.

Hmm...making the items more common is good I think but the face they don't do anything could confuse people and they will just sell it ...

That's their problem. I think the item description does contain a hint that there IS, in fact, a use for them.
Is it even possible to sell them at all? I don't think so, actually. Which is fine because that prevents exactly what you describe.

The "skipsell" attribute is set in 'InitApothItem', which I would guess means you can't sell them. And "skiptrade" is set in the items' own lines, presumably preventing their appearance in store and street trader inventories. As for descriptions, one of them says "Best to find someone who knows what to do with it" without giving a hint as to who that is, while two more indicate that they're no use to you as they are. Of course, if you visit the apothecary for any other reason and say the right thing, he'll tell you what you need to collect.

 

[Levis]

But I wonder if one of each item can be left in suitable locations for the player to find in general game-play, not tied to any specific storyline. That's in addition to their appearance in random chests. Possibly also have a note along with at least one of them, something along the lines of a prescription list, which could mention the rest of the items plus the apothecary..

I could at least hide one or two items in the apothecary quest.
I like having some of the items hidden somewhere.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The captain himself falls into the hold and there's suspicion one of the junior officers pushed him, but in fact he really did just fall.

The books did not ever truly answer the question on whether Hornblower pushed him or not.

But I wonder if one of each item can be left in suitable locations for the player to find in general game-play, not tied to any specific storyline. That's in addition to their appearance in random chests. Possibly also have a note along with at least one of them, something along the lines of a prescription list, which could mention the rest of the items plus the apothecary.

That should be easy enough. You could probably do that yourself if you'd want.

The "skipsell" attribute is set in 'InitApothItem', which I would guess means you can't sell them. And "skiptrade" is set in the items' own lines, presumably preventing their appearance in store and street trader inventories. As for descriptions, one of them says "Best to find someone who knows what to do with it" without giving a hint as to who that is, while two more indicate that they're no use to you as they are. Of course, if you visit the apothecary for any other reason and say the right thing, he'll tell you what you need to collect.

So basically you can't get rid of them. And then if you pay attention, you'll get to use them at the Apothecary.
Would that be considered OK? I think it is OK.

I could at least hide one or two items in the apothecary quest.
I like having some of the items hidden somewhere.

I don't mind.

 

[Marki]

My vote: the ingredients should stay as rare as they are. because there is always plenty of money in the game, I would even let the personal wealth rule stand. the apothecary as a feature is great like it is, it would be a boring routine if things would be easier. I mean, the fun factor of the feature is definitely based on the rarity of the ingredients (yeah, turpet! finally! then: boarding crash. one of my very rare gaming moments of total rage) the question is: How often should the player be able to use the advantage of the apothecary? In a very long game of mine I found about 6 or 7 turpeths (the rarest in my game). More would be too much for balance reasons I think.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Those items used to have varying rarity values, but I changed that and now they have the same value.
Of course the random element is huge, so you may not run into each one equally unless you manage to play a REALLY long time so the statistics could finally even out....

 

[Levis]

so now it's 10 points for 100.000 money. Which means its 10.000 per point. that does sound like a bit to much.
Seeing you won't do this quickly I'd sugest asking somewher round 1.000-2.000 per HP point, this way it will be a nice way to spend your money but not to expensive.
I'd say we can hide some of the items in places which you will visit during the sidequests.
For example Tincture of Laudenum in the animist cave etc. This way people will find it atleast somewhere.
We could as @Grey Roger suggest hide a note with a few of these items being some kind of list of requirements. For example I can imagine the animist looking for the items to get stronger so they would have a list somewhere with all the items in it. We could also do this in a book which also has a small description of the items (if someone wants to write a nice storey). Adding a book is very easy .
If we do that I don't think we have to change the rarity of the items.

Where I first said the HP increase might be percentual that does sound a bit weird tough, maybe it's nicer to have the amount of HP gain every time you use it, the idea behind it is the apothecary becomes better at doing the treatment. This would maybe motivate people to use it more.

 

[Grey Roger]

The idea of the percentage increase is that it's still worthwhile if you only get the treatment later in the game, either because you haven't been anywhere near Bridgetown on other business or because you haven't found all the items earlier. But it's also not a stupidly large HP gain if you do manage to get everything and visit the apothecary early on. So I'd say put the price back to 20000 and give a 10% HP boost.

Do we want the list or hidden items to be available early or late in the game? Putting them in the Animist cave means you don't get at them until you've completed the whole "Strange Things Going On" side quest - which, incidentally, means characters with evil reputations are never going to see them. (Do any storylines disable that sidequest? I've an idea "Hoist the Colours" has its own version of the quest.) If you're going to tie an item to that quest, perhaps have it on the body of the first red-robed Animist who tries to kill you at Oyster Beach, Puerto Rico.

The books did not ever truly answer the question on whether Hornblower pushed him or not.

The game storyline does not precisely follow the books - you probably won't see Sharpe mentioned in them, for a start. In the game, the conversation with Pellew after the court-martial makes it pretty clear that nobody pushed the captain.

 

[Levis]

The idea of the percentage increase is that it's still worthwhile if you only get the treatment later in the game, either because you haven't been anywhere near Bridgetown on other business or because you haven't found all the items earlier. But it's also not a stupidly large HP gain if you do manage to get everything and visit the apothecary early on. So I'd say put the price back to 20000 and give a 10% HP boost.

I can live with that .

Do we want the list or hidden items to be available early or late in the game? Putting them in the Animist cave means you don't get at them until you've completed the whole "Strange Things Going On" side quest - which, incidentally, means characters with evil reputations are never going to see them. (Do any storylines disable that sidequest? I've an idea "Hoist the Colours" has its own version of the quest.) If you're going to tie an item to that quest, perhaps have it on the body of the first red-robed Animist who tries to kill you at Oyster Beach, Puerto Rico.

We'd still want them to be random items too, but just hiding some in places which sound right where you could come across them in some storylines/sidequests might spark the interest of players and let them know they got this option.

 

[Grey Roger]

It might not be a good idea to associate the items with specific storylines since that would mean you only get them if you play the right storyline. Putting them into sidequest locations makes more sense but my question still stands - do we want them available early in the game or only later on? Also beware of sidequests which are disabled in some storylines - don't give anything to Elizabeth Shaw or Peter Blood, for example, as you're never going to meet them if you play "Bartolomeu".

One nice place to put something might be the chest in the kidnappers' house in St. Pierre. It might not be wise to have items forced onto players as a result of playing sidequests in case someone for any reason doesn't want anything to do with the apothecary in general or the HP bonus in particular, but if you put something into a well-chosen chest then the player always has the option to take it or leave it. As for this particular chest, if you know the item there then you can get it any time you're in St. Pierre; if not, you'll be in that house if you're doing the "Lucas" sidequest and can loot the chest while the kidnappers are upstairs fetching Lucas.

 

[Marki]

To make it easier to increase hp with the apothecary feature for the first time, why not? And I like the idea of a book describing it to the player. But later it should stay rare not common, don't want my officers hang around there everytime we sail by and become complete junkies And 10% health boost? C'mon thats far too much guys.

 

[Levis]

It might not be a good idea to associate the items with specific storylines since that would mean you only get them if you play the right storyline. Putting them into sidequest locations makes more sense but my question still stands - do we want them available early in the game or only later on? Also beware of sidequests which are disabled in some storylines - don't give anything to Elizabeth Shaw or Peter Blood, for example, as you're never going to meet them if you play "Bartolomeu".

One nice place to put something might be the chest in the kidnappers' house in St. Pierre. It might not be wise to have items forced onto players as a result of playing sidequests in case someone for any reason doesn't want anything to do with the apothecary in general or the HP bonus in particular, but if you put something into a well-chosen chest then the player always has the option to take it or leave it. As for this particular chest, if you know the item there then you can get it any time you're in St. Pierre; if not, you'll be in that house if you're doing the "Lucas" sidequest and can loot the chest while the kidnappers are upstairs fetching Lucas.

you should still be able to find the items. if you don't play the sidequests/storylines.
I don't want to force the people to do the sidequests. Preferbly we should put it in location where you can always come but by doing the sidequests you will be directed there.
For example:
The place where the guy with the scope is dead (under bridgetown abby) for the church quest could have an item (or two) stored somewhere also. It's pretty risky to go there but makes the reward higher.
the animist cave is also accessible while not doing the sidequest right?
I like the idea of the kidnappers house too.
The shipwreck from artois/nigel might be a nice place to put something too because both will end up there and you can decide to be "evil" or " good" in that.
The port au prince fort (where you will go in the "angelique moulin" quest) might be a nice location too
Maybe one of the targets of the hard labors quest
The mine which is used for the silver train might be a nice location too

 

[Levis]

To make it easier to increase hp with the apothecary feature for the first time, why not? And I like the idea of a book describing it to the player. But later it should stay rare not common, don't want my officers hang around there everytime we sail by and become complete junkies And 10% health boost? C'mon thats far too much guys.

remember when starting you are probably below 100 HP. So having a 10% increase then isn't that much.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Preferbly we should put it in location where you can always come but by doing the sidequests you will be directed there.

Sounds good.

 

[Grey Roger]

you should still be able to find the items. if you don't play the sidequests/storylines.
I don't want to force the people to do the sidequests. Preferbly we should put it in location where you can always come but by doing the sidequests you will be directed there.

Agreed 100%!

For example:
The place where the guy with the scope is dead (under bridgetown abby) for the church quest could have an item (or two) stored somewhere also. It's pretty risky to go there but makes the reward higher.
the animist cave is also accessible while not doing the sidequest right?

No, the island with the Animists' cave is inaccessible until you have persuaded the Dark Teacher to tell you about it, close to the end of the sidequest.

I like the idea of the kidnappers house too.
The shipwreck from artois/nigel might be a nice place to put something too because both will end up there and you can decide to be "evil" or " good" in that.

There's already a gun there.

The port au prince fort (where you will go in the "angelique moulin" quest) might be a nice location too

If I remember correctly, there's something peculiar about Antoine Chamfort - if you loot any chests or talk to civilians before you get to him, he may turn hostile and attack you before you've talked to him, which breaks the quest. I'll try to remember to check that next time I play the quest and if it's still the case, I'll file a Bug Tracker report. Meanwhile we may want to hold off encouraging people to loot chests in that fort.

Maybe one of the targets of the hard labors quest

Their houses are all closed until you get the mission to kill them. But if you're going to put something in one of those houses then the smuggler's house in Kralendijk, only open when you visit it during "Sinking the Vogelstruijs", is another possibility.

The mine which is used for the silver train might be a nice location too

Again, I believe the island is inaccessible until you are doing the quest.
Turks Island lighthouse may have possibilities. Or the list of ingredients could go into Turks Island library - it's about time that place got some action!
Turpeth, alias Operculina turpethum, is from India. Perhaps the EITC office in Port Royale or the WIC office in Willemstad could have a free sample - loot the place while you're getting your merchant licence.