Released Frigate "Rossiya", 1728

[Post Captain]

Now that looks good.

Edit: There should be more belaying pins on the bulwarks. There aren't enough to support the rig requirements of a full-rigged ship.

 

[Ascold]

Looks great, yes. Also, I've found some photos of portuguese frigate D.Fernando II e Gloria.

 

[Thagarr]

Wow, that deck texture is quite a change! That really looks fantastic!

 

[Armada]

Glad you like the deck texture. It's actually four times the resolution of the previous texture, and because it's photo-realistic, I reckon we might be able to use it for Hearts of Oak as well.

There should be more belaying pins on the bulwarks. There aren't enough to support the rig requirements of a full-rigged ship.

It looks like there are meant to be some extra pins on the wooden blocks connected to the shrouds, as shown in this photo:

Would they be sufficient?

 

[Post Captain]

They would be sufficient. Make sure to cross check that feature with other period models. That arrangement is usually found on modern (1890 and on) sailing vessels. They may have existed like that earlier, especially since this vessel was Russian. Customs varied widely by region.

Edit: Those are a little high for effective line-hauling or handling.

 

[Armada]

Checking with other wooden models of Russian ships, from the same site as the Rossiya, I've seen that the Treh Hierarchov (1782, 106-gun) also uses pins in that same fashion, however the Ingermanland (1715, 64-gun) and Evstafiy (1763, 64-gun) have pins in the railings instead. However, it's possible this is linked to the craftsmen who made the models; the Rossiya and Treh H. were made by a different craftsman to the one that made the Ingermanland and Evstafiy models. I suppose putting some in the railings would work for the Rossiya.

Anyway, I've started work on the cabin now. You may recognise the furniture from a couple of cabin location models...

(The part behind the chair is covering up the rudder section leading to the poop deck.)

How does it look so far? I'm trying not to overdo it, because the poly count could easily shoot up with too many details.
One thing I'm wondering about is whether to use a bed or hammock. There's a gap on the port side, but it's quite small with that cannon in the way.

I've also had a go at adjusting the mast bases. How does this look?

 

[Post Captain]

That looks pretty good, actually. The hammock would most likely have been removed during the daytime. At night, it would have been slung above the gun.
At least one of the quarter galleries would have been curtained off and used as a head. (That was the usual practice, although this vessel's quarter galleries might be too small for that purpose.)

Both Surprise and Victory have... "outcroppings" under the stern gallery.

Spoiler

On Surprise, these are upholstered and act as benches. There is one table in the center of the cabin that also acts as a desk.
There are two smaller cabinets near the guns. That arrangement might not look so empty.

Edit: The non-canvas part of the base of the masts might look better with the mast texture, or black. The canvas part was usually painted white, as far as I can tell.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ah, the globe from the Hoy. Could it be placed next to a window?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Looks great, Armada! One thing I was thinking of: Maybe put some navigational stuff (chart, book, equipment) on the desk to make it look like the cabin is being used?
As for that hammock, when it is removed, would it still be somewhere? I'd like to see at least where it goes.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Looks great! setting the standards for HoO

 

[philipjn]

Looking good mate, I have been watching the progress on this ship and it’s hard to believe it used to be a stock model. A few things that I have noticed: the hanging knees should be next to the deck beams not under them (sorry for being picky) and the galleries would probably not be 'open' as you have them but planked up to the stern with small doors (one would be a closet and one would be the head, the main part of the Cabin is the Captains day Cabin and would have a separate area (Captains sleeping quarters) which would have removable panels see this image of the Blandfords Cabin layout: http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/jamesjn/Blandford Class 6th rate/BlandfordCabinlayout.jpg

One last thing and I don't want to annoy you, I am not sure on the upper deck layout, if it is based on English practices it would have a separate Quarter Deck and Forecastle and I would plank up the lower part of the Beakhead Bulkhead so the chase ports aren’t open to the deck (again sorry for being picky).

Phil

 

[Armada]

At least one of the quarter galleries would have been curtained off and used as a head. (That was the usual practice, although this vessel's quarter galleries might be too small for that purpose.)

Hmm, if a curtain is all that's needed, there might be enough space. I'll see how it looks.

Both Surprise and Victory have... "outcroppings" under the stern gallery.

On Surprise, these are upholstered and act as benches. There is one table in the center of the cabin that also acts as a desk.
There are two smaller cabinets near the guns. That arrangement might not look so empty.

Again, I'll experiment and see how it turns out.

The non-canvas part of the base of the masts might look better with the mast texture, or black. The canvas part was usually painted white, as far as I can tell.

It started off as white, but I thought it stood out too much against the ochre masts.
I wasn't sure if it was meant to be painted the same colour as the masts, given that the Pilgrim's masts are white anyway, and I couldn't find any other images of a similar layout.

Ah, the globe from the Hoy. Could it be placed next to a window?

Which, in turn, was probably taken from 'MODELS\Locations\Decks\Cabin\Cabin01'. That's where I found it.
Not sure I could find a spot next to a window, after making the changes described above.

Looks great, Armada! One thing I was thinking of: Maybe put some navigational stuff (chart, book, equipment) on the desk to make it look like the cabin is being used?

I could add a couple of things like a chart, book and candle, perhaps.

Looking good mate, I have been watching the progress on this ship and it’s hard to believe it used to be a stock model. A few things that I have noticed: the hanging knees should be next to the deck beams not under them (sorry for being picky) and the galleries would probably not be 'open' as you have them but planked up to the stern with small doors (one would be a closet and one would be the head, the main part of the Cabin is the Captains day Cabin and would have a separate area (Captains sleeping quarters) which would have removable panels see this image of the Blandfords Cabin layout: http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/jamesjn/Blandford Class 6th rate/BlandfordCabinlayout.jpg

One last thing and I don't want to annoy you, I am not sure on the upper deck layout, if it is based on English practices it would have a separate Quarter Deck and Forecastle and I would plank up the lower part of the Beakhead Bulkhead so the chase ports aren’t open to the deck (again sorry for being picky).

No worries, I take all feedback into account, in the best interests of authenticity.
For the hanging knees, do you have any examples showing them next to the beams? Having them under the beams is the only way I've seen it done on previous models, so assumed it was common practice. The galleries may be too small to be planked up, and a curtain as Post Captain suggested might work better, but I'll have to see how it goes.
Remodelling the upper deck at this stage would probably be an extensive change and put me behind schedule. Surely that would change the lines of the ship, as well? There is no indication in the plans that the deck was laid out any differently.

 

[Post Captain]

The deck layout is probably fine. We're mainly using Russo-Anglo-French practices here. This is turning out more generic than nation-specific, since there aren't as many resources for that specific Russian frigate. I'll look at the hanging knees in some of my resources, too, in case I can find an exception. The base of the mast could have been painted another color. The specific resource I have indicated white, but it's hard to tell how universal it was since nobody does it anymore.

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

This Cabin looks like a one man office...
is that the purpose of it? i had the impression it was more of a meeting room...?

 

[Armada]

The base of the mast could have been painted another color. The specific resource I have indicated white, but it's hard to tell how universal it was since nobody does it anymore.

Well that figures.
I don't particularly mind if it should be white.

This Cabin looks like a one man office...
is that the purpose of it? i had the impression it was more of a meeting room...?

Well maybe that's because I cheaped out on the chairs. Each one costs around 800 polygons!

 

[philipjn]

On the image attachment I posted: C3/2 number 4: Hanging knees, please note the aft ones are aft of the beams and the fore ones are forward of the beams the change is on the Main hatch. as for the Gallerys, I am not too sure, but the closet may not need access to walk into if its small, same goes for the Head, the Blandford has round houses at the front that you basically just sit so your just outside the planking check the posted image C3/1 number 32 (there is a typo on the pic its listed as 31 in the index, but 32 on diagram), maybe it has similar concept? Or it could be just big enough to get into, have you got a reference of a person in the gallery area?

Edit: Here is a pic of the Mercures Gundeck including Gallery: http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/jamesjn/La Mercure/mercure7.jpg maybe thats a better representation of what it wuld be like?

Sorry for being a picky b*****d

Phil

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I could add a couple of things like a chart, book and candle, perhaps.

And maybe these?

 

[Post Captain]

I've found plenty of plans of vessels with the hanging knees directly below the beams. They are also in that position on all of the wooden vessels I have taken a close look at in person.

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

Hmm. double and triple HMM
That image makes me dream...
what if i had that space available for private and business space, and had to use it as efficient as possible, on a large military ship, where privacy is pretty low on the priorities list?

so let me note down that dream, hioping it can inspire someone.
Furniture:

explanation: table is simple, few ornaments, stands on 4 feet, stably. reinforcements of metal make it expecially useful and business like, able to be quickly pushed aside in case of need.
6 Chairs are enough for the officers . maybe add cushioning... to make a difference between officers and the lower ranks.
none of that engraved detail and stuff. Its not a ceremonial place, its the ships meeting room. no need to impress anybody.

Captains space if also integrated:
Close off an area (wooden panels, dismounteable, canvas door) where the cannon stands. length 8 feet, width 5 feet.
beginning at the wall to the outside deck, along the hull backwards to the beginning of the window.
inside this apace: Captains Hammock over the Cannon, personal effects. (=chest?)

Opposite of the Captains chest is the spot of the Administrative guy, the clerk or how's he called holding ship logs , payrolls and documentation

The clerk is using a simple, maybe square stool (polygons!)

Next to the desk is a shelf combination of booksherlf/ drawer.

Or instead of the clerks desk and drawer... just another cabin for the 1st lieutnant or someone of equal rank.

...just dreaming.

 

[Armada]

same goes for the Head, the Blandford has round houses at the front that you basically just sit so your just outside the planking check the posted image C3/1 number 32 (there is a typo on the pic its listed as 31 in the index, but 32 on diagram), maybe it has similar concept? Or it could be just big enough to get into

I don't think the Rossiya has roundhouses, so in fact the head probably should be situated in the cabin. I'm pretty sure there's enough space for one.

Going back to the deck layout, I might as well post this passage I wrote, from a discussion I had with SeaNorris, which sheds some light on the Rossiya's design:

As for this issue of a quarterdeck/forecastle versus a full deck, I have checked a few sources and have reason to believe it may be another exception [like the frigate Raae].
The Rossiya seems to be related to the Kreyser class, designed by Joseph Noy in 1721, which this site suggests had a quarterdeck/forecastle arrangement by looking at the armaments. However, Noy designed the Rossiya separately to the Kreyser class in 1728*, which implies he made several changes to the original design. Interestingly, the Rossiya's armaments on this page mention only a lower and upper gun deck, instead of the lower gun deck and quarterdeck/forecastle of its predecessors. This information was sourced from the book Russian Warships in the Age of Sail, and ties in with the wooden model's deck layout. I also checked that site's information against several other ships from ShipModel.ru, and they all seem to match up.
I know that's not necessarily concrete proof, but it's entirely possible that such a design did exist.

In other words, the full upper deck is probably accurate, despite the majority of ships at this time having a quarterdeck and forecastle.
*EDIT: please note that the exact date is probably wrong, as it turns out to be the same date that the ship was launched.

HundertzehnGustav: I'll certainly play around with the cabin layout a bit more. Most of what you suggested should be fine, except the wooden partitions for the captain's sleeping quarters.
Since the guns are ready to use and require easy access, those panels would certainly need to be removed. The rest of the cabin should be mostly unobtrusive, even though it would also have been stowed in practice.