Solved Fixing the Build Mod Ships

[Armada]

Actually, that might work better, good point. I was thinking of the jibs found on later ships, I suppose.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This is as far as I got last night. I'd like to move the bottom of the jib sail down and back. And a smaller spar for the topsail on the main mast would be nice. And a taller sail above the lateen. And ropes all over the place. And more vants. And. And.........

 

[morgan terror]

yeah, that looks okay. seems a bit top-heavy on the canvas though. maybe the topsail yards should be a bit narrower? or does that conflict with the look of whatever ship you based it on?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Here are three more showing what I managed to do this morning in between real life stuff. It looks like the jib sail is too big now.

As far as the top yards are concerned, they are the smallest ones on this ship. This morning I put the narrowest one on the main mast also. To get narrower ones like what is on the ship in your signature will mean searching other ships like a bark. What is really needed though is different masts.

 

[Armada]

Looking better still.
What needs to be changed about the masts?

By the way, I've checked the upgraded pinnace, and it indeed needs some work.
It has reverse lighting, which is an easy fix, but there's also a few cosmetic things I'm going to improve on. I'll let you know when it's done.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

If you look at in profile it looks to me like the foremast is too short in the lower section and too tall in the upper section. The ships I'd really like to see new masts for are the fluyts. There are lots of drawings of them with two sail per mast, but the masts they have now just won't work with two sails.

I tried a yard from a bark that is 1/3rd smaller than what is up there in those pics and that looks too small. It doesn't fit that bulbous pinnace hull.

Hopefully by the time you get those upgrades done I'll have some nice sails for them.

 

[Armada]

I see what you mean. It's really about the position of the top of the 'vants' on the mast, I guess.
It should be fairly easy for me to move that part up a bit using Maya, on any of the masts you want to test the two-sail layout on.

About the yard you want to substitute, maybe try one of the Battleship yards?
They look fairly similar in size to the pinnace ones, while being a bit shorter. My sig image reminded me of that.

Hopefully by the time you get those upgrades done I'll have some nice sails for them.

Aye! That way we can say the pinnaces have had a really thorough upgrade.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This is as far as I got tonight. I ended up using a yard from a bark for the top sails, but a sail from a battleship ended up over the lateen. It seems to fit fairly well. Ropes are next.

 

[morgan terror]

you should keep in mind that not all ships of the same type had the same rig. more, smaller sails just meant less crew to sail the ship (lower canvas weight per sail) and greater precision in setting the amount of canvas. the downside was that making big changes to the currently hoisted sails would take longer than ships that had only two very large sails.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ah, you have just reinforced my intention to only add these sails to the class 1 Waller Pinnace with its 500+ man crew and 54-24 lb. cannon and the class 3 Pinnace of War and its 350 man crew. I have been unable to find any history on these pinnaces, so feel we can do whatever we want with them.

You did just confuse me a bit because I have found information on the fluyts, and it seems they had 2 sails per mast and a small crew.

 

[morgan terror]

well, they were of course not expected to wage war. they could afford to be rather slow in changing the sails set. of course, fewer yards also means easier tackiing, now that i think of it. i think the way things worked changed once yards were brought around using more modern winches, and the info i have is from after they were introduced.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

"Reality...........What a concept!" ----- Robin Williams




I'm trashed, thrashed, bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated. :j3

Managed to do a little work tho. Now to just play the dam game! I got a half dozen or so Spanish War galleons to destroy, this pinnace to destroy, and then start on the East Indiamen.

 

[Armada]

It's amazing how much a load of extra ropes can improve the overall quality of a ship! Nice work.

There's only two things I can think of to improve:

1. The pennants might look better if they were about half as thick, and a little longer
2. The lateen on the mizzenmast has the sail poking through the mast. I think that can be solved by either moving the yard to the other side of the mast, or moving the end of the rope between the sail and the hull to the other side.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Those are two things I did not touch except to lower the lateen a click. I have problems with the lateens in general in that they always foul the mast at some point. The yacht1 and yacht 2 are the worst. They should be dropped just for their lateens. Are the Waller Pinnace or the Pinnace of War 40G among those you are working on?

 

[Armada]

Hopefully what I suggested above should fix the lateen problem; if it doesn't, then it's back to the drawing board. :?

The upgrades I have are for Pinnace1, and I'm adapting them for Pinnace2 as well.
I think the Pinnaceofwar40g is based on Pinnace2, whereas the Waller Pinnace is a different model which was adapted from Pinnace2.
More work will be required to make the upgrades compatible with the Waller Pinnace, and some small modifications will be needed for Pinnaceofwar40g.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The pennants turn out to be the same size as the flags, so I made them longer and thinner. I also moved both ends of the lateen rope away from the center of the ship. It is well clear of the mast with the wind coming from starboard, but still fouls the mast when the wind comes from port. Next I will try centering the rope.

edit: Nope. When the lateen swings around in the wind it fouls the mast.


The class 2 pinnaces ( heavywarship 1 & 2 ) probably will not get worked on, but the class 4 heavy pinnace might get a look.

 

[Black Bart]

.....
edit: Nope. When the lateen swings around in the wind it fouls the mast.

Does anyone know where in the code these attributes are stored? A number of ships end up with a 'reversed' wind bulge when their booms swing around too far(The Bermuda Sloops and Schooners have this for example). I'm thinking on those fore&aft ships it might be good to limit the range of swing of the boom to around 190 degrees, just to avoid those kind of issues, or maybe switch the sail types for the non wind bulge types maybe? But if we could find that code, we might be able to stop that lateen fouling the mast?

 

[Armada]

I'd imagine that kind of attribute would be hard-coded somewhere, but I might be wrong.
There must be a way around this problem. I'll do some experiments myself and see what I can figure out.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

.....
edit: Nope. When the lateen swings around in the wind it fouls the mast.

Does anyone know where in the code these attributes are stored? A number of ships end up with a 'reversed' wind bulge when their booms swing around too far(The Bermuda Sloops and Schooners have this for example). I'm thinking on those fore&aft ships it might be good to limit the range of swing of the boom to around 190 degrees, just to avoid those kind of issues, or maybe switch the sail types for the non wind bulge types maybe? But if we could find that code, we might be able to stop that lateen fouling the mast?

When I was working on the gaff schooner it had that problem with the sail bulging in one direction no matter where the wind was coming from. The solution is right there in the GM! ) There are different sail types, such as "sail", "saild", "sailt" etc. each with its own attributes. I discovered that with the old "Let's change it and see what happens" method.

Will that work with lateens? Damifino!



I switched from the Waller Pinnace to the Jamaicaship last night and discovered that the Waller Pinnace is a very good ship! That East Indiaman is slow, won't turn, and its cannon don't do any damage.

 

[Armada]

... There are different sail types, such as "sail", "saild", "sailt" etc. each with its own attributes. I discovered that with the old "Let's change it and see what happens" method.

Will that work with lateens? Damifino!

The sail type certainly makes a difference to how they look in-game. I can't remember specifically what each one does, but 'sailt' is definitely for triangular sails.
That said, I don't think you can change the lateen, since it has to use 'sailt'.