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Finding an end point

Jason

Jason

Buccaneer
Storm Modder
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> to all the fabulous modders, modelers coders, et. al.

I am sure I have seen this raisied before and I am probably not posting it in the right place. But, I think we need re-open the question of finding an end point in the modpack for the next build. We have all been having so much fun (my very small part is testing) with all these new mods and models but each change inotrduces new bugs which we then find and fix. To say nothing of the problem Meigger is having trying to keep in the guide he is writing.

And furhter I know many of us have big things we still want to do. I have a quest (the missing squadorn) I would like to do if someone will help me, Lass is working on the dialog, several are working on the islands, etc.

So maybe we should set an endpoint, get it bug free and release a build, and then work the new stuff.

Just a suggestion.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
I second that!

Sadly however, a call for an end of new stuff so that the build could be updated, was done in mid Dec. then sometime in March, and again after that, (I've lost track)

Still, the build update is never done!
 
Although we do this for fun, a deadline will help us set a goal, yes, so it is a good and valid point. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

Mind you, I have not been around for that long, so I can not say much about it. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
If Nathan were around, there would be some bug-fixing going on. Unfortunately, he isn't very actively around, so all I can do is add new stuff and do my best at bugfixing. But I am no good at it; I hardly understand anything in the code. So I can't really do any bugfixing. As soon as Nathan shows up again, it might be a good idea to hold off from adding new stuff and focus only on bugfixing.
I would also like a new proper Build update being finished. Then I won't need to upload so many MB's every time. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

Question to anyone capable of programming for PotC: Would you be wanting to give a hand in bugfixing? I'll be working on a full list of all Post Build 12 Mods bugs; and then, hopefully, we can get them properly ironed out.
 
I wish I had more time to help. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />

I think the problem with finding an endpoint is that everyone says, "Oh wait, do I have the time to fit this in?" and when we allow it, it causes bugs which snowball &tc...

I've asked before to suspend modding on this so we can get a release... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

It is difficult to curb your enthusiasm once you get rolling and are successful at making a mod. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
As far as I'm concerned we can make a cut anytime. Maybe we should go back to the last more or less bugfree version of the modpack?

Feel free to kick out any of my stuff if it's buggy/unfinished or simply not to your liking. I can always add it later to a finished Buildrelease. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
<!--QuoteBegin-Pieter Boelen+Aug 18 2005, 01:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Aug 18 2005, 01:54 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Question to anyone capable of programming for PotC: Would you be wanting to give a hand in bugfixing? I'll be working on a full list of all Post Build 12 Mods bugs; and then, hopefully, we can get them properly ironed out.
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Well last time I offered to help with bugfixing I was told I'm not needed. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> But the offer still stands, only I have no idea where to start. Would you PM me about the current state, who's doing what (if anything) etc. ??
 
Uh? Did anyone say we DIDN'T need bugfixing? That wasn't <i>me</i> saying that, right? if it <i>was</i> me, I must've been out of my mind. We <i>always</i> need bugfixing. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

I don't think anyone is really working on any specific bugfixes. Captain Hawk has done some bugfixes to sink-the-pirate quests and enemy coastguard ships when smuggling. And he's working on solving a talk-on-boardings bug. And Maximus is always working on fixing and improving his new interface mod. But other than that, I don't really know what anyone is working on. There are a lot of reported bugs in the bugs thread that remain unfixed. If you want to give it a shot, just choose whatever bug you want to fix.
Thanks in advance! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
Forget about that remark - I'm sorry, I was in an irritable mood. And yes, I'll take a look at the bugs thread.
 
I suppose this is as good of a place to post this as any...

Has any consideration been given to rolling things back a bit and reducing the amount of new content going into the next mod version?

While the current post mod pack seems ~very~ exciting and ambitious, it also seems like adding so much content to the mix at once is creating more bugs than anyone knows how to deal with efficiently.

Wouldn't it be easier to get one or two new major additions at a time completely implemented and bug-tested, before moving onto even more new projects? For instance, I'd be extremely satisfied with a modest Build that properly (i.e. completely bug-free) includes the Cannon Realism mod and the Captain's Challenge mod. In my opinion, those two mods alone are pretty substantial changes, and (combined with some other miscellaneous bug fixes) are worthy of at least a 12.5 release.

Granted, I'm not really involved with the project aside from some minor independent bug hunting, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. I'm a huge fan and have nothing but praise and appreciation for those of you who are helping to make these releases possible. But it seems like there are a <i>lot</i> of technical problems that all need to get worked out, with no really clear plan of how they're going to get worked out in a timely manner.

I guess I'd just rather see a less ambitious Build than one so ambitious I never get to play it (without bugs).

I hope this is taken as the positive, constructive suggestion I intended it to be. No slight intended to anyone; this is just how I'm viewing things looking in as a relative outsider.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />

(Now back to trying to integrate the Cannon Realism into my current non-postmod Build 12 installation; it keeps giving me runtime errors upon start-up...)
 
It might indeed be a good idea to make a more stable Post Build 12 mod version. I'm just wondering what are the parts that should be left out?
I know the new interface mod is causing some strange bugs (ships sinking after transfer), but I am sure Maximus will be trying to fix those bugs very soon.
What other mods do you reckon shouldn't be in a stable Build version?
I would be very happy making a proper official Build update, because then I wouldn't need to put such large files up for download. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I hope some other people can give their views on these matters as well.
Ah... If only Nathan were around, he could have most bugs fixed in no-time! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

BTW: There is a cannon realism version file for Build 12 (I think) up of the FTP. You could see if that does any good. Also: A very handy tool is the program WinMerge: You can make it do a comparision between the Build 12 code and the Post Build 12 code, then merge in all the parts that are stable. It's slightly complicated, but certainly easier than doing it manually.
 
<!--QuoteBegin-Pieter Boelen+Sep 5 2005, 07:52 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 5 2005, 07:52 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW: There is a cannon realism version file for Build 12 (I think) up of the FTP. You could see if that does any good. Also: A very handy tool is the program WinMerge: You can make it do a comparision between the Build 12 code and the Post Build 12 code, then merge in all the parts that are stable. It's slightly complicated, but certainly easier than doing it manually.
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Thanks, I'll try out WinMerge. I haven't been able to access the FTP in a few days, but thankfully I already DLed the Build 12 Cannon Realism version. I'll see what I can make happen.

As for paring down the Build a bit, I'm not sure. Things like disarming and area-effect weapons and such don't do much for me personally; I'd happily sacrifice those temporarily in order to see a new stable build in the near future.

But that's just my opinion; there are probably plenty of people who feel just the opposite; some would probably rather give up cannon realism (my precious favorite at the moment) than their gas grenades and pickpocketing knives.

I guess it comes down to what can be implemented with the least amount of headaches. If a particular mod is causing a lot of bugs at this point (that nobody is sure exactly how to fix at the moment), I'd say cut that bit until the next version. Just because stuff gets cut now doesn't mean that it won't make it into the Build later; it just means that working versions can be released incrementally on a more regular basis.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
The disarming mod is indeed a VERY bad bug-causer. But it is already turned off. I turned it off months ago, because I found out it never was a good idea to have it work that way anyway. It was just a stupid idea of mine. Or maybe the idea wasn't stupid; but the way it worked was.

I think most of the special weapons don't really cause major bugs. They cause some weirdness (if enemies use them, but don't know what they should use them for), but no real bugs that make the game unplayable. I think the worst bug at the moment is with the new interface mod: That you can end up with one of your own ships sinking after a transfer. But I am sure Maximus will fix that soon.

The modeltypes mod (the one that enables new models to be actually used in the game) is also causing a little bit of weirdness when you run into some civilians trying to attack you.

Enlarged Oxbay might be a mod that should be cut. But it can easily be turned off with the BuildSettings.h toggle I added some time ago.

But other than that, I don't really know which mods are really making the game unplayable. Most of them work reasonably well, for all I know.
 
<!--QuoteBegin-Pieter Boelen+Sep 6 2005, 11:23 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Sep 6 2005, 11:23 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Enlarged Oxbay might be a mod that should be cut. But it can easily be turned off with the BuildSettings.h toggle I added some time ago.
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Oh No, don't take that out ... the toggle off in Buildsettings should work fine for most people, and unless it's causing problems in other areas (which I think it's not) it should be left in.

I've been playing with it on all along and it has been fun, not hard to get used to at all, and did I mention FUN, even though it's not completed yet.
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /> to CCC for this!
 
I wasn't seriously thinking of cutting it. If I would "cut" it in a new modpack release to make it more stable, I would just set the BS.h toggle to off. There's no need to completely remove the code. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
I don't think there's any real need to cut it either. It's not 100% finished, but doesn't really seem to cause any major bugs either. Some strangeness, yes, but no game-killing bugs. Not as far as I've seen anyway.
 
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Here is my two pieces of eight! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel_pa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ixi" border="0" alt="duel_pa.gif" />

We seem to have a lot working well, new characters, new ships and adding them seems to be fine.

Permanent corpses both on land and during boarding is working fine. I haven't played all the quests but I haven't found anything major yet.

And for the most part the new interface seems to be working fine for me.

As some have said, ship transfers seems the biggest thing that is causing problems. Others have mentioned problems with the Oxbay and Greenford suburban locations. I have had no problems walking though and encountering people freindly or otherwise. I just don't go in the locations very often.

So maybe we should fix the ship transfers, be sure the quests are all fine, stabilize the suburbs, and release what we have as build 12. whatever.

Then could devlop a list of things to add for Build 13.

Just an idea.

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sailr.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sail" border="0" alt="sailr.gif" />
 
<!--sizeo:8--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Why has this topic been forgotten?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
 
maybe because there is already a build 13 in the making.
its starting with the november 21 release, sincew it was less buggy and now Pieter is adding things bit by bit, and i think making a record of any bugs that come up along the way.
 
Well, at least we have already fixed the suburb and transferbug mentioned above <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
i think we should continuing modding and when Nathan shows up stop and release a build. Were never going to get another stable version of the build going like this
 
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