Fixed Drinking and Gambling at the Tavern

[Pieter Boelen]

Ahaaa! That does make more sense than sitting in the middle of nowhere.
Also suggests there isn't actually an error with the code.

I've caught characters dropping from the sky on a locator, though that is often hard to catch.
Not sure if we could get past that game engine limitation.
Simplest solution might be to just remove the sit locators downstairs on the part with overlapping floors.

That model is from AoP/CoAS so perhaps they updated the engine so that this isn't actually a problem.
If that is the case, there may not be a simple real solution....

 

[pedrwyth]

Ahaaa! That does make more sense than sitting in the middle of nowhere.
Also suggests there isn't actually an error with the code.

I've caught characters dropping from the sky on a locator, though that is often hard to catch.
Not sure if we could get past that game engine limitation.
Simplest solution might be to just remove the sit locators downstairs on the part with overlapping floors.

Well I thought of large tavern model (eg Oxbay/Redmond) where you have upper and lower floor locators seemingly working OK - maybe that's why there are no locators on the tables to the left of the door downstairs under the active ones upstairs in that model. BUT there are downstairs locators with floor above them and you don't stick on the upper floor. Admittedly there are no locators in that region of the upper floor so maybe that's a clue as to why yo don't get a similar effect? Anyone know what makes the two models behave seemingly differently (couldn't see a clue in the locators in TOOL). If not I might just try cutting out the upper table locators in tavern_2 and see what happens but trial and error means slow progress.

That model is from AoP/CoAS so perhaps they updated the engine so that this isn't actually a problem.
If that is the case, there may not be a simple real solution....

Well if not simple count me out

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well I thought of large tavern model (eg Oxbay/Redmond) where you have upper and lower floor locators seemingly working OK - maybe that's why there are no locators on the tables to the left of the door downstairs under the active ones upstairs in that model. BUT there are downstairs locators with floor above them and you don't stick on the upper floor. Admittedly there are no locators in that region of the upper floor so maybe that's a clue as to why yo don't get a similar effect?

While I am not at all sure if that is the case, I do believe your note there may be very close to the truth.
I cannot think of an example of any location where you get placed on a "bottom" floor where there is actually a "top" floor above you that you can visit.
Maybe @Jack Rackham or @Bartolomeu o Portugues can mention if they remember seeing such a place?
If there indeed isn't one that is actually a stock PotC model, this might be the reason why.

Well if not simple count me out

Removing locators is simple, right?

Would admittedly be a bit of a shame, but there are worse problems than a two-storey tavern being a bit empty on the lower floor.
We can just add a dialog to the barman explaining that everybody prefers to sit on the top floor as that is closer to the rum.
Only makes sense, no?

 

[pedrwyth]

Removing locators is simple, right?

Well yes (and no) Turns out after a quick visit to every seat in Cartagena tavern there are 4 downstairs locators where you get stuck upstairs. 9 & 10 we knew plus 13 and 15 put you behind the bar - very handy for the booze but not great for interaction. So that would leave 12 active downstairs that work ok. However three upstairs locators see you fall through the floor to the downstairs (and it's not a case of too much rum) 27,28 and 31 you actually see the character on the locator as they materialise (I'm doing console ChangeCharacterAddressGroup calls) before they disappear downwards - very strange . It also brings into play the fact you can walk through some of the downstairs walls (because two of the dropping cases are half in half out the wall). Good plot line for a quick escape perhaps but a bit weird. EDIT If you're downstairs they fall through the ceiling toill they reach the floor.

So simple is get rid of those three too (so seven lost) leaving 11 active upstairs, 12 active downstairs. Not bad considering they are virtually deserted anyway. I doubt that any have been used for quest cases (or the problem would have been spotted before).

"Proper" solution is find out what drives the behaviour.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'd sat get rid of all the weird locators and be done with it. No need putting in a lot of time and effort on this one.
As you say, 11+12=23 locators that ARE still okay is plenty!

The only quest use I can think of with the Havana tavern are the first tables upstairs to the right, which sees use in Jack Sparrow for the Sumbhajee sidequest.
That is actually when I saw this the first time. But that locator isn't affected.

 

[pedrwyth]

Revised tavern_2 locator file with 7 less sit locators.

I think I might still potter about trying to understand what controls the vertical. Seem to remember reading somewhere about someone having related problems when trying to use a hospital/dining room model where the characters wouldn't go onto the floor. I had fun getting Malcolm to sit on the candle locators with a further variety of results.

Comparing x and z co-ordinates the sit locators downstairs that do work generally have things like tables and the bar counter upstairs (where the character can't usually go) which seem to be holes/depressions in the model base stratum level. This would suggest it does arise out of the original model "ground" topography. The candles are interesting though because although the upper floor ones stay there a character placed there falls through - except for the light5 on the end of the bar which is solid for a character too- yet the locator which was just behind it lets you fall through as does the bar further along for sit locators 14 and 16 - all very intriguing.

I guess first step is read all there is on the forum to be had on locators and their behaviour.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Seem to remember reading somewhere about someone having related problems when trying to use a hospital/dining room model where the characters wouldn't go onto the floor. I had fun getting Malcolm to sit on the candle locators with a further variety of results.

I remember that. That was YEARS ago!

I guess first step is read all there is on the forum to be had on locators and their behaviour.

See you next century!

 

[pedrwyth]

Yeh. maybe not so simple.

I remember that. That was YEARS ago!

Hey it was only six years ago - a trifle of time to have passed when you get to my age (but also a lot to look forward too - if I'm lucky!)

These are two relevant quotes from the thread I remembered.

This look interesting. Actually nothing is wrong with the walking patch, there is indeed a big hole at the chairs & table place. But looking the GM file with the GM viewer (Tool can't open it 'model couldn't be read'), it appears the engine put your characters at the GM model 0 altitude. Usually when some characters is outside the walking patch, either it stay at the altitude it was before moving (sidesteps), or it takes the altitude of the locator the character is moved to. Moving them to 0 altitude - how strange. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

Maybe that can be sorted by raising the entire model so that the 0 y coordinate is at the right place? Kind of a loosy work-around, but might work... It's possible to rise/low down the entire patch with Inez Tool, the locators should be easy to correct as well, but for the model I can't do it myself.

I've been experimenting with the locators a bit, but it seems that EVERY horizontal surface in that location has a patch.
And all characters end up on that patch, whether you want that or not. Is it possible to remove part of the patch with Maya or at least put it at ground level?
This location could add some nice atmosphere to the game, but not if everybody goes floating. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

Which didn't seem to result in any posted resolution. Actually later in the thread @Bartolomeu o Portugues added the tavern in question (plus another couple of locations).

So I guess simple solution maybe the only practical answer too

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So I guess simple solution maybe the only practical answer too

I'm afraid so. The Maya solution may have worked for that particular table location, but only because you don't technically need two levels there.
And nobody ever tried that, so nothing happened afterwards.

This is hardly important enough to make much of a fuss over anyway. Locators gone = problem gone, right?