WIP Character Model - Witch Girl

[ChezJfrey]

fair, maybe its unreasonable for a 15yr old game.. if I had been smart Id have fixed the UV map before skinning and importing, but alas, Im not the DXT compression in TX converter really trashes the colors, the gradients go all weird. I can get nice compression out of photoshop, but TX converter blows up the file size again when converting.. better to have it as 1024 in that case. maybe Ill experiment with fixing the UV map in the future so the face and hair use up the whole texture area, thatd make 1024 look equally crisp as 2048 does rn

anyway, heres a 1024 version, its at ~5mb. itll have to do

(fun fact: the texture when I ripped it from sims was a whopping 4096x2048! )

EDIT: actually, maybe the DXT comp just looks messed up in the TX converter preview, gonna try it in game as you said
EDIT2: it looks alright! colors are a bit less vibrant, but def acceptable until I potentially fix the UV! removing the tiny trash file!

I might be able to help with that. Awhile back, I coded an executable, that will take those large, uncompressed .tga.tx files (or even uncompressed .tga) and enable me to convert them to .dds, compress to DXT1, then convert them back to .tga.tx, with much better compression results than the TXConverter attempting its own DXT compression. If you give me the large, uncompressed .tga.tx files, I can run it through and you can see how they fare.

 

[Grey Roger]

The link to the original big files is in the first post of this thread.

 

[ChezJfrey]

The link to the original big files is in the first post of this thread.

LOL, indeed. I suppose that's the danger when I stumble in late, click the link to take me to the latter posts, and completely miss the beginning.

Result attached.

 

[DeathDaisy]

Can you upload your version of the textures with DXT compression? Then I can add them to the update which I'll soon be uploading.

As for the sword, I wasn't thinking of using it as treasure, though I am now - it may go into one of the cavern dungeons, replacing the stock sword which is currently there. But "PROGRAM\Storyline\FreePlay\StartStoryline.c" or "PROGRAM\Characters\characters_init.c" could be fiddled to give either Ciri or Morgan a special sword when you start the game.

oooh hadnt thought of that, sweet trade of ideas I havnt been at home for a few days, but giving it to morgen is an awesome idea, gonna play around with it tomorrow probs. maybe gonna add ciris actual sword from the witcher game too. it has a stylish hole in it which isnt very historical I guess, but it looks sweet

I might be able to help with that. Awhile back, I coded an executable, that will take those large, uncompressed .tga.tx files (or even uncompressed .tga) and enable me to convert them to .dds, compress to DXT1, then convert them back to .tga.tx, with much better compression results than the TXConverter attempting its own DXT compression. If you give me the large, uncompressed .tga.tx files, I can run it through and you can see how they fare.

the compression has rly thrown a grind in my texturing gears several times, it sucks when the converter chews up my carefully colorproofed stuff and spits out red-and-green banded garbage. gradients are espc bad that program gotta be a blessing

LOL, indeed. I suppose that's the danger when I stumble in late, click the link to take me to the latter posts, and completely miss the beginning.

Result attached.

gonna try her in game when I get back to the proper comp, but looking at it in txconverter the detail and color seem much much crisper and colorful! super cool however! dxt1 doesnt keep the alpha maps so her hair is gonna lose the transparency sadly, but super useful for the clothes!

 

[Grey Roger]

Try the other DXT settings. I've noticed with some of my own models that DXT1 - 4x sometimes puts artifacts into the compressed image. DXT3 - 2x and DXT5 - 2x may give better results.

But...

EDIT: actually, maybe the DXT comp just looks messed up in the TX converter preview, gonna try it in game as you said
EDIT2: it looks alright! colors are a bit less vibrant, but def acceptable until I potentially fix the UV! removing the tiny trash file!

... didn't you already have a DXT compressed version which was acceptable?

 

[DeathDaisy]

Try the other DXT settings. I've noticed with some of my own models that DXT1 - 4x sometimes puts artifacts into the compressed image. DXT3 - 2x and DXT5 - 2x may give better results.

But...
... didn't you already have a DXT compressed version which was acceptable?

yes, the latest version I posted that uses TX converters dxt5 is alright I was checking out the version @ChezJfrey and attached to his post which was converted using his alternate compression method that uses dxt1

 

[Grey Roger]

Where do I find your DXT version? The one linked in the first post still has the original huge file.

 

[ChezJfrey]

yes, the latest version I posted that uses TX converters dxt5 is alright I was checking out the version @ChezJfrey and attached to his post which was converted using his alternate compression method that uses dxt1

Yes, I'm aware DXT5 is better for alpha, I just didn't realize this texture had such. I can rerun with DXT5 instead. New attachment with DXT5, instead.

 

[DeathDaisy]

Yes, I'm aware DXT5 is better for alpha, I just didn't realize this texture had such. I can rerun with DXT5 instead. New attachment with DXT5, instead.

in retrospect, I guess its obvious your exe could do dxt5 too and not just dxt1, considering your absolutely impressive achivements I didnt want to seem needy by asking for a dxt5 version, but I see how what I said cud be taken as condescending so sorry bout that. you know how cool I think your work is

Where do I find your DXT version? The one linked in the first post still has the original huge file.

ah, sorry, I mustve forgot to update! you can most probly use @ChezJfrey s files he uploaded in the last post now tho gonna update the complete package with the new files too, for convenience!

 

[ChezJfrey]

in retrospect, I guess its obvious your exe could do dxt5 too and not just dxt1, considering your absolutely impressive achivements I didnt want to seem needy by asking for a dxt5 version, but I see how what I said cud be taken as condescending so sorry bout that. you know how cool I think your work is

No worries, I didn't take offense...I was just explaining myself for not doing 5 in the first place...which is probably needless, but I do it anyway, LOL

 

[DeathDaisy]

so I didnt have time to tinker yesterday, but Ill get to it in the week

No worries, I didn't take offense...I was just explaining myself for not doing 5 in the first place...which is probably needless, but I do it anyway, LOL

heh I know how it is, I do the same thing all the time

Like to see that. Or steal it

I found the HDD but the project files werent on it sadly, only the final result. I hope theyre on my old laptop, so gonna check that out when I find it
there were some screenies tho

theyre a few years old at this point and taken in cryengine. I was kinda cheating with the rain and lighting to make it look a bit more exciting than it actually is, its all pretty flat sadly. I burnt out hard while working on it so its just that one small street and lacks detail, but the textures I made from photos I took, and its all built after months of meticulous research of how it wouldve looked in 1790, so it can probly be expanded to sumthing more interesting. twas the place of the tavern terra nova, known from the songs of ye ole scoundrel Bellman
actual street as it looks today:

 

[Jack Rackham]

That indeed looks very good @DeathDaisy.
A friend of mine used to live in the next alley.

 

[Grey Roger]

Here's a little challenge for you. At least one of these pictures is "WitchGirl" with a 2048x2048 face texture. At least one of these pictures is "WitchGirl" with a 1024x1024 texture. Both textures are DXT5 - 2X. All are direct screenshots, using the free camera feature to get close in. All are unmodified by Photoshop except to save the picture files as .jpg so they can be posted here. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to look at the pictures and say which witch is which. : Which picture(s) is (are) in 1024x1024 resolution, and which in 2048x2048?


By the way, take a look at the weapons in the not so close up pictures. As well as trying out different face texture files, this FreePlay is also a test for three different weapons - the new sword, the new duelling pistol, and the new alternative short pistol for earlier periods. The duelling pistol is an anachronism as this game is in the "Spanish Main" period, so I cheated and gave it to myself via console. The sword is not a cheat, though. I haven't assigned it to Morgen as a starting sword, so she had to get it the hard way. This is the moment she found it where I'd hidden it, in the dungeon on Cayman:


And this is how it looks in the interface:

 

[DeathDaisy]

Here's a little challenge for you. At least one of these pictures is "WitchGirl" with a 2048x2048 face texture. At least one of these pictures is "WitchGirl" with a 1024x1024 texture. Both textures are DXT5 - 2X. All are direct screenshots, using the free camera feature to get close in. All are unmodified by Photoshop except to save the picture files as .jpg so they can be posted here. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to look at the pictures and say which witch is which. : Which picture(s) is (are) in 1024x1024 resolution, and which in 2048x2048?

hm, Im gonna guess you have a quite old monitor.. not many non-widescreen left in the market on low resolutions the diff is gonna matter much less than in HD.

Spoiler: nerd stuff

putting on my game dev goggles for a moment, the pixels in a texture are called texels, and the sharpness of the texture in game is dependent on texels per in-game pixel that the model uses on the screen at any moment. ie if a face takes up 4096x4096 pixels in the texture but takes up 1000 pixels when the model is shown on the screen in game, thats 7/8ths of the video memory for that texture wasted. thats why games are using larger and larger textures ever since the HD era began around the time the xbox 360 and PS3 came out. a developer working on halo 3 once jokingly said something along the lines of "I dont think any developer is happy about the HD revolution, its 4 times the work just to get the same fidelity as before". there is def some truth in it tho, frex witcher 3 on lowest and highest graphics settings are probly gonna be zero difference on an old crt, but very obvious on a 4k monitor. when modding skyrim frex, there are a lot of ppl who put like 2048x2048 textures on eyelashes and stuff, which is ridiculous however one looks at it. its important for performance to know when to use high res textures and not.

nerd goggle off.

I dont think I can guess on the two-thirds body shots, I dunno if the jpg compression makes the shadows rly grimy too or if thats just the game. however, Id say the close-up shots are pretty clear, the left one of them is a lot sharper and crisper, the strands of hair stand out more and you can see the pores and the chafing of the lips much more clearly. its gonna be embarrassing if Im wrong now tho anyway, had the texture not been 65% wasted space, a 1024 tex wud have been more than enough, but now it uses such a small part that it loses detail rly quickly

By the way, take a look at the weapons in the not so close up pictures. As well as trying out different face texture files, this FreePlay is also a test for three different weapons - the new sword, the new duelling pistol, and the new alternative short pistol for earlier periods. The duelling pistol is an anachronism as this game is in the "Spanish Main" period, so I cheated and gave it to myself via console. The sword is not a cheat, though. I haven't assigned it to Morgen as a starting sword, so she had to get it the hard way. This is the moment she found it where I'd hidden it, in the dungeon on Cayman:


And this is how it looks in the interface:

those weps are sweet, specially the sword looks really cool!

 

[Grey Roger]

I dont think I can guess on the two-thirds body shots, I dunno if the jpg compression makes the shadows rly grimy too or if thats just the game. however, Id say the close-up shots are pretty clear, the left one of them is a lot sharper and crisper, the strands of hair stand out more and you can see the pores and the chafing of the lips much more clearly. its gonna be embarrassing if Im wrong now tho anyway, had the texture not been 65% wasted space, a 1024 tex wud have been more than enough, but now it uses such a small part that it loses detail rly quickly

Well done! OK, since you can tell the difference in a blind test, that's enough reason to put the 2048x2048 version into the update.

About the "nerd stuff": I was going to say something similar, which is that even on a good widescreen monitor, you probably won't notice the difference in normal gameplay. A decent widescreen monitor is 1920x1080, which means you're not going to see the detail provided by the 2048x2048 texture unless you do what I did, which is enable free camera and zoom in to almost zero range. Still, just in case anybody else wants to do exactly that, and as the 4MB version from @ChezJfrey is a lot less demanding than the 20MB original, we may as well use it.

Next question: why are "CiriPirate.tga.tx" and "CiriPirateHead.tga.tx" in full A8R8G8B8 format? They appear to be variants of "Beatrice.tga.tx", and that's only stored in DXT1 - 4X format, which means you're probably not getting any detail benefit for the larger file. Perhaps those could be re-saved in DXT5 - 2X, or even R5G5B5 if they don't need an alpha map.

those weps are sweet, specially the sword looks really cool!

And on that note, if you have a sword for Ciri, please upload it! If you can manage it this week, I'll include it in the next update.

Also:

... this is another variant of Beatrice which I found in CoAS: GoF. There are other armoured variants as well. It's easy to make armoured variants of models in PoTC; you just name the variants "CiriWitcher_A1.gm" (for cheap armour), "CiriWitcher_A2.gm" (for battle armour) and "CiriWitcher_A3.gm" (for gold armour). The system automatically checks if the character is wearing one of those armour types; if so, and if the "A1", "A2" or A3" variant exists as appropriate, it displays that variant. And that's how some character models show armour. (The ones which don't, which is most of them, don't have the "A1" etc. variants.)

Which means, if you want armoured Ciri, all I need to do is upload the armoured textures for Beatrice. As Ciri's main body texture is similar to Beatrice's, it shouldn't be difficult to adapt them - in fact, as Ciri gets her face and hair from different files, it may not be necessary to adapt them at all.

 

[DeathDaisy]

A decent widescreen monitor is 1920x1080, which means you're not going to see the detail provided by the 2048x2048 texture unless you do what I did, which is enable free camera and zoom in to almost zero range.

yeah normally 1024 wouldve easily been enough. problem is the face and hair uses about a 4th total of the texture space since I ripped it from sims and the rest is used for the rest of the body, which Ive removed. optimally I shud remap it at some point. the place one notice the greatest difference for morgens face in normal gameplay is in her talky head during dialog, or if someone against all odds play in 1st person

Next question: why are "CiriPirate.tga.tx" and "CiriPirateHead.tga.tx" in full A8R8G8B8 format? They appear to be variants of "Beatrice.tga.tx", and that's only stored in DXT1 - 4X format, which means you're probably not getting any detail benefit for the larger file. Perhaps those could be re-saved in DXT5 - 2X, or even R5G5B5 if they don't need an alpha map.

good question! I might just not have thought it thru since I was so invested I think they can safely be made smaller. other than the hair she dont use alpha, so even uncompressed with r5g5b5 shuld save some space

And on that note, if you have a sword for Ciri, please upload it! If you can manage it this week, I'll include it in the next update.

Ill see what I can do the snow have been messing up my plans, but I should be able to manage during the week

Which means, if you want armoured Ciri, all I need to do is upload the armoured textures for Beatrice. As Ciri's main body texture is similar to Beatrice's, it shouldn't be difficult to adapt them - in fact, as Ciri gets her face and hair from different files, it may not be necessary to adapt them at all.

the chainmail belt looks rly weird looks pretty sweet otherwise, itd be a cool thing to have, just gotta give it a once-over

 

[Grey Roger]

yeah normally 1024 wouldve easily been enough. problem is the face and hair uses about a 4th total of the texture space since I ripped it from sims and the rest is used for the rest of the body, which Ive removed. optimally I shud remap it at some point. the place one notice the greatest difference for morgens face in normal gameplay is in her talky head during dialog, or if someone against all odds play in 1st person

Best way to test the character is to play in 1st person. But the talking head only occupies a small square in the corner of the screen. Perhaps for the blind test, I should have given the outfit to an officer, talked to her, then posted screen shots of talking heads with different textures.

good question! I might just not have thought it thru since I was so invested I think they can safely be made smaller. other than the hair she dont use alpha, so even uncompressed with r5g5b5 shuld save some space

Since DXT5 worked well for Morgen, I may as well use the same for Ciri.

the chainmail belt looks rly weird looks pretty sweet otherwise, itd be a cool thing to have, just gotta give it a once-over

See attached.

 

[DeathDaisy]

Ive managed to give the new sword to morgen when starting a new game and it looks wicked

I added it as blade308 since that was what it was in the other thread

also added ciris sword into the game!

it still lacks icons, and Ive no idea how to balance it since I havnt paid attention to the stats in game. I just copied the katana stats for now and hope thats okey Ill try and whip it up before the weekend

gonna take a look at the armor for ciri too!

 

[Grey Roger]

If you can upload Ciri's sword tomorrow, I can put it into the update which I want to upload on Friday. The katana stats are a reasonable starting point - like a katana, this appears to be a double-handed sword, judging by your picture, and the katana stats aren't overpowered for a sword which you get at the start of a game. I can make the interface pictures - I have a couple of blank frames in Photoshop format which make this easy. But I will need the model file, the texture file, and your versions of "initItems.c" and "ItemsDescribe.txt" with the sword's definition and description respectively.

As for the "Sword of the Earth", it is indeed "blade308". That is how I have added it, and it has both interface pictures and an entry in "ItemsDescribe.txt". The stats for that one are perhaps a bit high for a starting sword - perhaps give Morgen a worn one rather than a top quality one. Then Morgen can't use it to full effect until she's played a bit and raised the money to repair the sword.

 

[DeathDaisy]

If you can upload Ciri's sword tomorrow, I can put it into the update which I want to upload on Friday. The katana stats are a reasonable starting point - like a katana, this appears to be a double-handed sword, judging by your picture, and the katana stats aren't overpowered for a sword which you get at the start of a game. I can make the interface pictures - I have a couple of blank frames in Photoshop format which make this easy. But I will need the model file, the texture file, and your versions of "initItems.c" and "ItemsDescribe.txt" with the sword's definition and description respectively.

As for the "Sword of the Earth", it is indeed "blade308". That is how I have added it, and it has both interface pictures and an entry in "ItemsDescribe.txt". The stats for that one are perhaps a bit high for a starting sword - perhaps give Morgen a worn one rather than a top quality one. Then Morgen can't use it to full effect until she's played a bit and raised the money to repair the sword.

awesome, thanks! I rly appreciate it ciris sword coming right up! a very good idea for morgens sword, def makes it more interesting as well!
sorry for clumping all the files straight into the rar and not sorting them in folders, Im incredibly tired and in a bit of a hurry I hope I havnt missed anything vital