Build 14 Alpha Update 4 - Bug, Buggars and Basic Bogus

Petros · Dec 30, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 30 2006, 12:54 PM) [snapback]177376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Why is that? Enemies are too strong? Please post your observations in the Automatic Skill System Bug Tracker issue</div>

Yes, enemies are too strong, my skills are too low, my blade is too weak. I always play at level 35.
</div>

Just as predicted by Hook and myself in the "New Skill-up system" topic.

morgan terror · Dec 30, 2006

and me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheeky

" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> go on! say it! i know i will.

told you so!
told you so!
told you so! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :razz

" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

sorry <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :eek:

ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

told you so!
told you so!
told you so! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheeky

" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

ok, i'll stop. maybe.

Jason · Dec 30, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I posted a file on the Bug Tracker that I think should fix this</div>

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Pieter,

I have loaded that passenger fix twice and started a new game and nothing has changed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, enemies are too strong, my skills are too low, my blade is too weak. I always play at level 35.</div>

Well apprentice is probably too easy. Moving to jouneymnan now.

On the chests, in 3hours i have one bandage in a chest in the Phillipsburg tavern. All other chests have been empty. The weapons chest (still empty) has reappeared in the enemy captains cabin. This whole chests thing feels a little like chests content is random and some settings are off or extremely low.

giuliootto · Dec 30, 2006

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Mates,

I played for a while with B14A4, and found just two weird things:

1) With ENABLE_AMMOMOD Not enable guns are reloaded every time the location changed. Moreover the inventary shows two empty spaces between the items (should are gun powder and bullets).

2) During navigation the Ahoy dialog box (from directsail I suppose) occurs a little bit too often even if there are already other ship in the area.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :keith

" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> bye,bye,
Giuliootto

PS.
I try to add AMMOMOD problem in the Bugtrucker but I have problem with this application. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shrug

" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

HawkerT · Dec 30, 2006

Pieter! Thank you for taking the time to giving your extensive answers ... tis much appreciated!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
This mod is NOT included in any Build version, nor any of the updates or alphas. It is compatible with Build 13, but not 100% compatible with the Build 14 Alpha versions. I'll see if I can fix that later today.
</div>
Sounds wonderful Pieter! Looking much forward am I to this <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pirate2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="pirate2.gif" />

Hey Jason.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 30 2006, 06:54 PM) [snapback]177376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
For what it is worth, I got the oxbay movie after comming out of boarding between Dowessen and Coniecao, no where near oxbay.
</div>
If my theory is right about this one, then the direct sailing will not trigger (any?) movies ... well at least it does not trigger the Oxbay invasion movie, that much is certain. Only when using the world map for the first time after leaving Oxbay will it show. Can you confirm that this is in fact how it happened for you!? If so then please update the Direct Sailing issue in the bug tracker where I have put up a note specifically about the Oxbay movie. If it is any help then I will gladly update the bug tracker after you have confirmed how it happened ... just say the word!

All the best
Frans

LarryHookins · Dec 30, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(giuliootto @ Dec 30 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]177398[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>1) With ENABLE_AMMOMOD Not enable guns are reloaded every time the location changed. Moreover the inventary shows two empty spaces between the items (should are gun powder and bullets).</div>
If you disable the ammomod, you'll have to start a new game or you'll get empty slots in your inventory.

Hook

HawkerT · Dec 31, 2006

Okay Gents ...

More B14A4 observations! This time about ammo for the hand held pirate cannons of choise and about discharging them ... hey homie! ... duck! ... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guns.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":2guns" border="0" alt="guns.gif" />

When going to the ammo storage in the cargo bay of you ship you start at the end of the stairs which you have just descended by from the deck. To your front left is a big pile of what looks like ammo barrels. To your direct front is some standard cargo boxes in which you have a ship chest. To your front left is another set of stairs looking like they lead back up to the deck. At the foot of them latter stairs (a bit in front of them actually) is the ships hand gun munitions and hand gun powder (let's call it the gun ammo stowage contra the cannon ammo stowage).

My observations on the above are these:

14) It is really not very intuitive that the gun ammo stowage is found in the empty space in front of a stairwell leading to the deck? Why not have the gun ammo stowage placed in some seperately placed in some smaller pile of gun ammo barrels placed away from the big pile of barrels to the front left which I assume to be the cannon ammo stowage? No biggie really ... but not intuitive!

15) Every time the gun ammo stowage is accessed the character ammo is replenished automatically and the stowage has changed to some arbitrary selected value which can be bigger than the second before or lower ... there seems to be no system. Why have the gun ammo stowage at all if it is not calculated in any real way based upon usage?

Don't get me wrong! I definitely think it should be there and I think it should be treated like the weapons locker, i.e. the player has to restock it or have one of his men do it (e.g. the Gunner like in the Sir Rackham mod or maybe the quatermaster (we should aprach him and order him to do so)) Again this would give a role to one of the officers on your boat. In fact I think that he should also be able to purchase ship ammo and crew provisions (wheat/rum/fruit/beer) for you based on some simple choices like Full/Half/Minimal or something. Again you would have to do this yourself at the start of the game and feel the ease of work when assigning officers to do it. In this way you will only have to consentrate on purchasing the goods you want to trade with and having the stuff needed to run the ship bought for you with varying skill by your officers.

In fact I also think you should be able to see the four types of goods in your cargo hold with some differnet visual clues. I.e. cannon ammo stowage, gun ammo stowage, crew provisions stowage and trade cargo stowage. You should then be able to approach each of them and see only this type of items and maybe make finetuning descisions on their usage and purchase to help your not so skilled officers until they get proficient enough themselves. This could be some of the stuff we could do while doing direct sailing!!!

16) Your gun ammo (default at start of game is 6 bullets and 6 powder units) will not be deducted from when shooting into the air or simply when missing your target. In other words your ammo will not go down to 5 before you actually hit an opponent with the shot (the opponent <u>stays</u> 'red' until the bullet is discharged and you hit him!!!). So you can shoot like crazy into the water or whatever and you can aim at an opponent (he is red when you press the mouse or keyboard button) but miss (he is no longer 'red' when the bullet is dischared due to either you or him moving to much after you pressed) and the ammo count will never go down. This is also noticeble via the sounds as the game will only play the real gun sound when you hit your target and play nothing (or something vary vague) when you miss or just shoot at whatever. So you know that you are down one shot if the game plays a real gun sound, but that you still have all your ammo if the game plays nothing, even though you have just fired your gun. I will post this on the bug tracker.

All the best
Frans

Jason · Dec 31, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>the first time after leaving Oxbay will it show. Can you confirm that this is in fOnly when using the world map for act how it happened for you!? </div>

No. As I said I was no where near Oxbay and hadn't to Oxbay when it happened.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Petros and Hook,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Just as predicted by Hook and myself in the "New Skill-up system" topic.</div>

Yes it does seem that you were correct.

HawkerT · Dec 31, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 31 2006, 01:30 AM) [snapback]177414[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
... No. As I said I was no where near Oxbay and hadn't to Oxbay when it happened.
</div>
Okay!
Well I tried to test a little bit more and can see that the Oxbay movie seems to be triggered, not immediately after entering the worldmap but rather, by the first status message (you know the one with how many days you have been out and the morale of the crew).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 31 2006, 01:30 AM) [snapback]177414[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Just as predicted by Hook and myself in the "New Skill-up system" topic.</div>
Yes it does seem that you were correct.
</div>
Sir Hook, Sir Petros and Sir Jason.

I respect your views immensely, but please remember that this is one of those mods that will not be globally liked. Some might find it to hard and some might find it just right. We need more testing before shooting this fine mod down!!! And after all there is a toggle on this baby.

I have not come very far as testing all this B14A4 stuff and writing posts takes a long time. However I am playing at Adventurer level, And I have made it out of Oxbay in style even after cleaning out the Oxbay dungeons, sewer and Maltese basement (or whatever it is called). You have to fight hard and you have a much bigger chance when sporting an officer, but it is definitely not to hard for my liking ... yet ... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />

All the best
Frans

LarryHookins · Dec 31, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HawkerT @ Dec 30 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]177420[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>I respect your views immensely, but please remember that this is one of those mods that will not be globally liked. Some might find it to hard and some might find it just right. We need more testing before shooting this fine mod down!!! And after all there is a toggle on this baby.</div>
I'm not shooting it down just yet. But I am saying there will be a rather severe amount of work before the thing works properly. And in the end, the effect will be the same as the system we have now.

For example, if you don't do much sailing, you don't need to be putting a lot of skill points into sailing. And you *will* need to be putting them elsewhere, into whatever you do most. Like fencing. Or commerce.

We won't know if the new system is better until 1) it works right, 2) it is balanced and 3) most people prefer it. In the mean time we're using resources which may be limited in ways we don't know yet, and burning CPU cycles that not everyone has an excess of. The current system isn't broken, so it's not like this is a critical fix for the game.

I'd say go forward with it. See what you can make it do. There may be benefits down the line that no one has imagined yet. But segregate the code as much as possible in case it has to be totally eliminated at some point in the future, for whatever reason.

For what it's worth, the boarding code I rewrote is much too complicated. If I was redoing it today, I'd go back to the stock PotC code and add as little as possible to get the same effect we have now. And no one would be able to tell the difference during a boarding. For the new skill system, does the end effect justify the effort and problems it will cause? This is my biggest concern.

Hook

Nosie_old · Dec 31, 2006

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" />
I'm one of the Pirates not liking this mod, it can be turned off!
Another one is the reloading of your pistol every time one enters a new screen!!
Haven't found the turn off yet? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :wp

" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 30 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]177391[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 30 2006, 07:20 PM) [snapback]177382[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Yes, enemies are too strong, my skills are too low, my blade is too weak. I always play at level 35.
</div>
Just as predicted by Hook and myself in the "New Skill-up system" topic.
</div>
Maximus did say that the mod still needs balancing. It's a first alpha version; we can't expect it to work right at first try. At least we are now generating some comments that will help in getting the mod working right. And there's a toggle in case it really works bad and people want to turn it off. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 30 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]177391[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have loaded that passenger fix twice and started a new game and nothing has changed.
</div>
You don't need to start a new game with the fix. But be sure to manually put it in PROGRAM\INTRFACES, because it doesn't automatically put itself in there like the usual Build updates. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jason @ Dec 30 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]177391[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
On the chests, in 3hours i have one bandage in a chest in the Phillipsburg tavern. All other chests have been empty. The weapons chest (still empty) has reappeared in the enemy captains cabin. This whole chests thing feels a little like chests content is random and some settings are off or extremely low.
</div>
Have you got any idea since when this issue occurs? This really sounds like it's not working as it should. I do recall turning a chest IS.h value down some weeks ago; perhaps that is the cause? I'll have to check that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(giuliootto @ Dec 30 2006, 11:01 PM) [snapback]177398[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
2) During navigation the Ahoy dialog box (from directsail I suppose) occurs a little bit too often even if there are already other ship in the area.
</div>
Something seems to be pretty wrong with that and will need to be fixed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nosie @ Dec 31 2006, 11:24 AM) [snapback]177436[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Another one is the reloading of your pistol every time one enters a new screen!!
Haven't found the turn off yet? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :wp

" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
</div>
That was something Maximus did recently. I wanted to keep that change out of the modpack, but I forgot. I think that is pretty annoying. I'll do that with the next version.

Nosie_old · Dec 31, 2006

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" />
Treasurechests are set to 3, I think BS.h but could be Internalsettings?
I set it to six and find most chests have something in it, but still find some
empty ones! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Jason · Dec 31, 2006

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Pieter,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>You don't need to start a new game with the fix. But be sure to manually put it in PROGRAM\INTRFACES, because it doesn't automatically put itself in there like the usual Build updates</div>

Thank you. I will try that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Maximus did say that the mod still needs balancing.</div>

Well, one idea is to make the leveling up go faster by changing the 1% imporvement each time to 3% or 5%. I fnially managed to survive by stareting at apprentice and then moveing to journey man in the game. I haven't yet gone to adventurer.

With respect to the sail ho message, in my game it seems to be stuck telling me, " it looks like merchants flying the flag of Grreat Britain battleing merchants flying the flag of Great Britain". No that is not a typo. And it still crashes the computer if you choose the secon dialogue choice.

I am going to try to up the chest setting in IS.h

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :cheers

" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

Jason · Dec 31, 2006

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Noise,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Treasurechests are set to 3, I think BS.h but could be Internalsettings?
I set it to six and find most chests have something in it, but still find some
empty ones</div>

I couldn't find this setting in either BS or IS. Can you help?

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2006

Perhaps the RAND_ITEM_NOSKIP setting in IS.h?

Jason · Dec 31, 2006

Pieter, sorry to be so dumb, but I couldn't find manually or using the "find" command.

Pieter Boelen · Dec 31, 2006

That's odd. I just tried and I find it without any trouble. It's InternalSettings.h named RAND_ITEM_NOSKIP:
<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>// Rarity and random controls
// Note: in this block, when I talk about rare scalars, I mean scalars to the attribute itm.rare, where "rare" is the probability of finding an item.
// So anything that makes the _attribute_ rare larger (i.e. scalars of >1) actually make the item _less_ rare.
// rarity for item = itm.rare * base_scalar * (luck_scalar, 1.0 to LUCK_RARE_MAX)
#define RARE_DEFAULT                0.1            // FLOAT - default rarity for items that lack a .rare
#define BASE_RARE_SCALAR            1.0            // FLOAT - final rarity scaled by this
#define LUCK_RARE_MAX                1.5            // FLOAT - scalar when player luck = max. Note, it's _summoned_ luck, so officers' lucks count too.
#define RARE_RAND_RETRIES            2            // INT - RPG_STYLE only - How many times it will try to find a random item for a locator
#define RARE_MAXLEVEL_ABOVE            10            // INT - RPG_STYLE only - 0 = off - How many levels above the character a random spawned item can be - players LUCK is factored in by half points - try not to set this too low, or really low level characters will basically never find anything good!
#define RAND_ITEM_NOSKIP            0.3            // FLOAT - random chance a spawned box item will spawn ANOTHER item, and so forth (can get out of hand if set too high!)
                                                // normally, when a random item is picked for a box, and it cannot be spawned (too rare, too high minlevel),
                                                // another will not be chosen. This is the probability that another /will/ be chosen.
                                                // Note that this is tested each time, so the probability of trying for a /third/ time is prob * prob;
                                                // in mathematical terms, the probability to try for the nth try = prob ^ (n-1).
                                                // setting this too high may result in an endless loop on opening a box!!!</div>

I have just made a comparision between BuildSettings.h and InternalSettings.h from Build 13 Beta 9 and Build 14 Alpha 4. No itemsbox related values have been changed. Actually, no values have been changed at all except the SHIPMONEY_MULT which I set from 0.01 to 0.001 at the suggestion of somebody on the forum. Other than that, everything is as it always was. Apart from the new settings, of course, but these are not box-related either.

Jason · Dec 31, 2006

Thank you Pieter. I have noticed that the ship money is much smaller than before.

So is your conclusion that the answer to empty chests does not lie here?

Jason · Dec 31, 2006

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Pieter,

I am very sorry to report that after manually inserting the passengers fix into PROGRAM/INTERFACE the problem was not fixed.

Build 14 Alpha Update 4 - Bug, Buggars and Basic Bogus

Captain of "La Nao"

Magnificent bastard

Buccaneer

Freebooter

Sailor Apprentice

Buccaneer

Sailor Apprentice

Buccaneer

Sailor Apprentice

Buccaneer

Captain Victorious

Navigation Officer

Captain Victorious

Buccaneer

Buccaneer

Navigation Officer

Buccaneer

Navigation Officer

Buccaneer

Buccaneer