bugs

Oldtimer · Mar 31, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Mar 31 2009, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Well since the talk is allready on the weapons and crewmen ^^

How about having the option with the merchant to look at your weapons locker? So you can buy weapons and store them in the weapons locker directly from the merchant.</div>

Hi,

this feature was present in an earlier build re ammo(bullets and powder) and really helped with reducing micro-management.

Regards, Oldtimer

Pieter Boelen · Mar 31, 2009

I wonder what's going on with the weapons the boarding crew uses.
Of course they begin with using the blades from the weaponslocker (cutlasses by default), but I'm pretty sure they end up using blades that were never put in the weaponslocker.
So are your crewmembers doing some sort of looting on their own or are they fantom blades appearing at random in your weaponslocker?
And if your crew DOES do its own looting, should it not be impossible to personally ALSO loot those bodies again? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shock

" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

Pieter Boelen · Mar 31, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Oldtimer @ Mar 31 2009, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>this feature was present in an earlier build re ammo(bullets and powder) and really helped with reducing micro-management.</div>There was indeed an auto-restock of ammo at the Redmond trader.
The code for this is still present, though it's unsure whether it works right or not.
Either way, since Jack Rackham simplified the ammomod, you can restock instantly by visiting your ship's gunpowder storage in the cargo hold.
Also, once you've hired a cannoneer, your ammo will be automatically restocked upon visiting your ship.
As far as I'm aware, the ammo you are restocked with actually doesn't really come from anywhere, but is just given to you. ( <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" /> )

Grega · Mar 31, 2009

Well i didnt think it for the guns but rather have the merchants sell bundles of weapons. Lets say 10 swords of the same type. And those would automatically get added to the weapons locker.

But yea i did notice my crew using swords while the weapons locker was empty ^^

zorglub · Mar 31, 2009

I think we'll need to work again on this chest.
I'd enjoy an upgraded interface in which you could see in one eyeshot your cargo, the status of your provision, what's in your weapon locker, and what medecine would be onboard (I don't like the idea of the 'medecine' good, I'd prefer a kind of 'chest'... that'd be the job of the surgeon/doctor)

Together with the officers I'm trying to change the crew system. I think your crewmates will definitly have to use ammunition like you and your officers. I used to like as well the other two items that help to increase the amount of gunpowder/ammunition you could carry, that will come handy if we add guys using muskets a lot - won't we consider re-adding them?

Oh, and just a small detail - I don't like that all crewmen in my ships are carrying weapons. People in this game tends to be over-armed now, included in circumstances they don't need to.

Pieter Boelen · Mar 31, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 31 2009, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309885"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I think we'll need to work again on this chest.
I'd enjoy an upgraded interface in which you could see in one eyeshot your cargo, the status of your provision, what's in your weapon locker, and what medecine would be onboard (I don't like the idea of the 'medecine' good, I'd prefer a kind of 'chest'... that'd be the job of the surgeon/doctor)</div>The problem with items is that you can't really buy them in bulk.
I don't know how a "sick/injured crewmembers" system would, but I imagine that maybe you'd need a doctor and medicine (items or goods).
Then, say, for each medicine item or good you'd have, one crewmember would be healed. Or something like that.
In such a case, you might want to be able to buy LOTS of medicine, which you can't do if they're items.
Especially not when the item weight mod is added, because you can't carry enough medicine items yourself for your entire crew. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

On the other hand, we do have potions and bandages and such as items, so in that respect it does make sense to have them as items.
Would those items then also apply to crewmembers*? Or just the "medicine" items?

* Crewmembers here not meaning the "boarding crew" or "land crewmembers", but the "numetary value only"-crewmembers, used for establishing the time for raising/lowering sails and reloading cannons and such.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 31 2009, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309885"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Together with the officers I'm trying to change the crew system. I think your crewmates will definitly have to use ammunition like you and your officers. I used to like as well the other two items that help to increase the amount of gunpowder/ammunition you could carry, that will come handy if we add guys using muskets a lot - won't we consider re-adding them?</div>Indeed. We might need to do some thinking on the whole ammunition system.
There's a fair amount of things about it that don't really make sense to me (eg. infinite amounts of bullets in your powder storage and only player and officers requiring them),
but on the other hand simplifications are required to keep the gameplay fun and not have it resort to annoying micro-management.
Have you got any good ideas on how to keep the ammomod in such a way that makes sense and adds gameplay value without being annoying?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Mar 31 2009, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309885"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh, and just a small detail - I don't like that all crewmen in my ships are carrying weapons. People in this game tends to be over-armed now, included in circumstances they don't need to.</div>You mean on your own ship's deck, right? Absolutely agreed!
It makes no sense for crew to be armed non-stop. No wonder you get mutinies!
When it comes to mutinies, shouldn't there be some security on your weaponslocker
(eg. the only place on the ship where the crew can get their weapons from unless the smuggled them elsewhere)?
It'd be pretty cool if a mutiny could be triggered by an officer giving the crew access to the weaponslocker and if you only have loyal officers who agree with your running of the ship, then the crew can hardly start a mutiny at all, even if they are VERY unhappy.

I suddenly also remember the thought we once had to have certain sizes of ships REQUIRE you to have a certain amount of officers.
After all, there is no way you can operate a Manowar with a captain and no officers.
And what if you can assign crewmembers as officers, but they'd start out at a VERY low level?

What if your crewmembers themselves would also be unique characters to some extent?
So your crewmembers would also gain experience themselves if they don't die.

And eventually we come round to my 'ol suggestion of giving some sort of personalities to the characters in the game.
I still believe that is a point where HUGE improvements in gameplay might be achieved.

zorglub · Mar 31, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Mar 31 2009, 08:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309898"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>What if your crewmembers themselves would also be unique characters to some extent?
So your crewmembers would also gain experience themselves if they don't die.</div>

I'm glad you said that Pieter... Because that's precisely part of what I'd like to do while working on the officer system. We will talk further of this aspect later.

I was never happy with this system in which 'crew' is a number just like 'sail' or 'hull', separated from the land crewmembers, not linked to the crew onboard the ship, and all stats depending on the captain or the officers.

By reading some books recently I realize something wasn't good, at all. I've read an autobiography of a black slave-sailor in the mid XVIII century, and constantly there was problems of all the crew disapering at port because some big ship nearby was lacking crew and paid three times more...

In another book, I noted that unlike the English navy system in which most of the crew is initially taken up by force, in the French navy crew was hired from professional fish/trading sailors, devided into 5 class depending on their experiment, etc. (that would have been the reason why France always had more ships at quay that actually sailing, because there were in short of sailors)

And at last, in a pirate ship, the crew would be the most important. Especially if you're elected captain by them.

'Crew' is a generic term. Some sailor work can be done by anybody, others requires some experiment, like climbing in the mast to furl the sails, etc.

Pieter Boelen · Mar 31, 2009

Agreed on all accounts. Notions like that could greatly enhance the gameplay as well, I think.
It would mean that rather than a constant neccessity, your salary would actually be important to keep your crew from deserting.
That would suggest that you would be able to vary your salary, so if you'd pay little, you'd always have trouble keeping a full crew,
but if you'd pay a lot, your crew would (almost?) auto-replenish upon entering any port.

It might also be interesting to try and work in those different ways of getting crew, especially also in context of any navy mods.
Right now you just get them from the taverns in pure number-fashion and you can (supposedly; I haven't ever seen it myself)
hire single crewmembers by encountering them in the streets IF you are using the crewmembers on shore mod.
That mod is, of course, a major improvement already, but it'd need to be extended to somehow apply to ALL crewmembers.

And especially since the captain is elected by popular vote on a pirate ship, that also creates certain requirements for dealing with the crew.
And what about maroonings with a pistol with one shot on an island if the crew's unhappy on a pirate ship?

konradk · Mar 31, 2009

In my recent version I remember that I started to add feature of wounded crewmwmbers. During fight some crewmembers on main character ship and companions would die but some be wounded - they live but are unable to participate in fight. Later, as time passes, they'd be cured: without doctor 5 people per day and if there's a doctor on board he could use medicines in ship hold to heal more crewmembers (at the rate 1 medicine per one person). However, that must be balanced.

As for mutiny, I'm thinking about adding mutiny on companion ship (when your companion could be killed, prisoned or initiate mutiny himself) as well as making some system which I could describe: officer with reputation > matey would increase chances of keeping crew from mutiny even at treacherous morale, while swindler and worse would mutiny even at higher crew morale, like poor. Also, I'd like to make officers on main character deck with poor reputation to join mutineers on your ship.

Pieter told me about idea of more-than-one-officer-to-command-a-LARGE-ship but I didn't start to even think about it yet. The feature which I'd happily add would be giving order to companion to board some enemy ship and this really happening.

pirate_kk

Pieter Boelen · Mar 31, 2009

Indeed I saw some code for those injured crewmembers. So that is actually working already, albeit unbalanced? COOL!
That should give us something to work with! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :onya

" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

I definitly like your mutiny ideas; that would certainly add a lot more interest to player-officer interaction.
BTW: Should the player be aware of his officers' reputations? Personally I would think not with their reputation only becoming noticable through their actions or hints they might drop in dialogs.

Board enemy ship suggestion is also good. Though I take it you would then just have to wait and see if the boarding is succesful, right?

konradk · Mar 31, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Mar 31 2009, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Board enemy ship suggestion is also good. Though I take it you would then just have to wait and see if the boarding is succesful, right?</div>After receiving 'board' command companion would tend to approach given target, and after getting at some distance (ships needn't be aligned to avoid to much complications; lets say: main character is throwing boarding hooks and he must be close to enemy and properly aligned, while companions approach enemy and attack "on boats", so they can be at a bit larger distance and at any side of the ship and angle); when boarding starts there would be information on screen like "Tartane 'Astra' boards battleship 'Belette'" and after a while, taking into account crew quantity and officer's skills + perks enemy ship would be captured, at which point it would have gotten skeleton crew with command 'sail away'. Upon entering map, changing location in direct sail or approaching captured ship main char could open transfer interface for that ship. If companion looses he would die and his ship would be sank or join enemy with skeleton crew, with sail away command.

pirate_kk

Pieter Boelen · Mar 31, 2009

Sounds good to me. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :woot

" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

Grega · Mar 31, 2009

How about the captured ship captain.

Killed or prisoner?

Not to mention the cash you can usually extort from them when you win ^^

konradk · Mar 31, 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Mar 31 2009, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>How about the captured ship captain.

Killed or prisoner?</div>That would be random event. When opening transfer interface, if he's a prisoner, he would be added as a prisoner to your ship. If he dies there's no problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Megla @ Mar 31 2009, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=309953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Not to mention the cash you can usually extort from them when you win ^^</div>That would be already done automatically after transfer.

pirate_kk

Grega · Mar 31, 2009

Sounds like a plan

Oldtimer · Apr 1, 2009

Hi all,

more transport missions bugs:

- I got missions where the goods are contraband at destination and cannot be offloaded,

- also I got a mission to transport more goods than my cargo hold could take and had a deficit at arrival. THIS IS A MISTAKE OF MINE; I FORGOT THAT I HAD 2 SHIPS: CONTRABAND STILL VALID.

Regards, Oldtimer

Oldtimer · Apr 1, 2009

Hi all,

I quite like the ideas about individualized leveling crewmembers, their promotions, wound system and so on.
Actually maybe they could be promoted not to officers, but NCO:s. I could imagine a provost could enforce discipline and so on.
Perhaps we could reduce/change no of real officers and replace them with NCO:s.

Only officers really needed would be:

- navigator(actually could be called 1st lieutenat and possess mandatory nav skills)

- marine lieutenant(commanding the privateer marines, yes there was something like it on larger privateers). This a new function responsible for boardings and landings. Boatswain is now abt. grappling and leadersship only.

- gunnery officer(2nd lieutenant, mandatory arty skills)

- deck fighters(midshipmen),

- surgeon,

- priest on larger ships, yes, to improve morale and lower mutiny risk.

More important is that you should be unable to run even a small ship efficienly without some NCO:s and officers. So some skills work only if proper officer is assigned, irrespectively of players skills(gunnery, surgeon, priest, marine lieutenant, carpenter come to mind).
I suggest looking at AoP system for that, it is quite good.

Also, I would like to have randomized stats for hireable officers, I think they are now tailored to player lvl. I like to start with low lvls and develop them to my liking.

Oldtimer · Apr 1, 2009

Hi all,

one more "bug"?

I run an english cutter as Jack Sparrow, when I am on deck in harbour I have a nice deck with swivels, poop, tiller. Poop is accessible and I can stand at the tiller with excellent view of my deck and surroundings.

When at sea I have a primitive deck with no accessible poop, I am mostly blinded, it is quite disturbing and adds, for once, unwanted difficulty...

I use DirectSail.

Regards, Oldtimer

Pieter Boelen · Apr 1, 2009

You ideas sound interesting, but what exactly are NCO's?

The "walking around" deck and the "3D sailing mode" deck are basically unrelated, though we did try to give the bigger decks to the bigger ships.
Indeed I also found the 3D sailing mode deck to be fairly limited; in some cases I simply couldn't see a ship sailing right in front of me!
This was because either the sails or the railing was blocking it from view. Though the sails make sense, having the railing block your view does not. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :facepalm

" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

I wonder what might be done about this. Making the 3D sailing mode decks more detailed and work better for walking around might be one option, but that would require this work to be done for ALL ships, which is more work than we have knowledgeable people to do. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :modding

" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

Would it be at all possible to switch from using the ship model to using the deck model when pressing Tab to get on your deck?
It would be insanely cool, of course, if you could walk around on your walking-around-mode deck instead.
But I don't know how you could possibly have a 3D location model moving around at sea!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :shock

" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

Oldtimer · Apr 1, 2009

Hi Pieter,

NCO:s are Non Commissioned Officers, like seargents on land. They have not attendend a war college and have no officers patent.

Regards, Oldtimer

bugs

Master Mariner

Navigation Officer

Navigation Officer

Landlubber

Privateer

Navigation Officer

Privateer

Navigation Officer

Privateer

Navigation Officer

Privateer

Navigation Officer

Landlubber

Privateer

Landlubber

Master Mariner

Master Mariner

Master Mariner

Navigation Officer

Master Mariner