Baltimore Steam Propulsion Laboratory

[Iron Roger Flint]

Is it a language barrier or something?

First of all I don't recall saying anything about a halt on modeling new ships, since there really are no new ships for PotC (besides the BP, and steamers). The current WIP's and those finished are for use in CoAS, so more incompatible "walkies". If you would pay more attention to your fellow modders, you would know that I'm a modeler myself... Yes the modelers are making a good job, however MOST OF IT IS FOR USE IN COAS.
Adding a new ship wich is CoAS based will only add to numbers of ships already in Build with incorrect shipwalk's. Maybe you think that it's better to simply continue adding these new ships and hope that someday someone with a magic wand will fix them all up? Does that sound like a good solution? That is why I recommend a halt on adding new ships (with incorrect walkfiles or unfinished WIP's) to the Build, so people like ZarethPL and others would have a chance on fixing them instead of trying to configure new CoAS ships to work in PotC.
Besides I made a contact with a fellow russian modder, who created an automatic sailorpoints program for CoAS. It uses locators added with maya to generate a correct sailorpoints file. I asked him if he could help us with "walkies" and he said he'll look into it. However he's also having a life so it's not entirely known when or will the tool be created. I myself don't have enough time to finish a ship I was working on, since there always so little time and also something of a greater importance for the Build comes up.

Don't exaggerate. The world is not spining around Build or CM, but Build and CM are spining around the world. These people also have their own lives and problems with it. If you think otherwise, I suggest you go out more...

Returning to the topic of the steamers:
the problem with them is that this project was rushed and that never leads to good results. I'm only being a critic. Cryticism is what moves to improving the product to be closer to perfect. You can't blame people for that.

Also I have couple o'questions: the steamers are supposed to be used in the last period, right? Is there a questline involving last period? Cause if no then I see no real point in adding this whole thing to the Build. It's already very large and adding 100 MB to it won't make it any better if the ships won't be used anywhere. We already have ships in build that are currently not used in any quest and might not be even encounterred. Adding "deathweight" never helps. But since you insist on adding steamers for public testing, how about we make them additional download? this tends to work for the russian modders well

 

[Thomas the Terror]

Didn't I make a tutorial on how to use the sailorpoints tool, which can make sailorpoints? And those sailorpoints can then be converted into walkfiles.

 

[Iron Roger Flint]

Didn't I make a tutorial on how to use the sailorpoints tool, which can make sailorpoints? And those sailorpoints can then be converted into walkfiles.

that's a completely different tool. The tool i'm speaking of would create a perfect walkfile from maya model with locators added. No need to convert from sailorpoints!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The differences between a PotC ship model and a CoAS one are really only VERY minor.
CoAS supports hanging ropes, which PotC doesn't, and PotC has a different crew walk system.
But other than that, it's all compatible and the small differences are no reason for me
to not include the amazing models made for CoAS in PotC.

In fact, since the PotC Build Mod is DEFINITLY the bigger project and is in no way, shape or form
inferior to either CoAS itself or any of the modding work going on for that game,
I would consider it just plain folly for a modeler to create a ship solely for CoAS and not consider PotC at all.

The main issue here is, I think, the lack of PotC walk files for the crew.
Note that in many cases, modelers make ships for AoP/CoAS and don't bother to make a sailorspoints file either.
Should those models then also not be added to AoP/CoAS?

What I would like is a conversion tool for changing sailorspoints files into PotC walk files and the other way around.
The difference between those files is only the format; both files use the same number values.
We'd need a programmer for this, but this could actually be really quite easily accomplished.
If so, we can add PotC walk files to all those AoP/CoAS ships that went into the PotC Build Mod
and also sailorspoints files could be made for all those PotC ships that have been added to the CoAS CM as well.

Note that in the CoAS CM, I'm pretty sure a lot of PotC ships have been added, probably also without correct walk files.

As far as adding ships or not, I do believe that in a final release, all ships should work properly.
But we're talking about a Beta release here; it doesn't yet need to be perfect, because we're still working on it.

If people complain about those ships, we'll deal with it. But I'd rather have them in than out.
Because if they're not included by default, nobody IS going to bother to try and fix them.
AND nobody is going to make use of them in storylines either.

As for the steamers, they don't add much to the game in terms of MBs;
they mainly reuse other ships' texture files and the GM files aren't so big.
So that's no reason not to add them.

The US will have steamers in the last two periods, while France gets them only in the last period.
There is then currently two storylines where you might encounter them,
being Master and Commander (Revolutions) and Horatio Hornblower (The Corsican).

Currently the steamers are not used in specific story events, but when we add them, they can be used later.
We have many times added things that would only be made use of much later.
But if we wouldn't have added them, they would never have been used.

As for making things an additional download, I absolutely hate that system.
The reason is that:
a. People are going to not bother downloading and installing extra stuff;
they can't even figure out two-file installation instructions, after all!
b. When a new version is released, we need to update the additional download as well
and people who want to play that will have to redownload and reinstall.

Basically, that is too much trouble both for the developers (us) and the players.
So we definitly ARE including them in the game.
And they'll also show nicely that we're still working on developing new things.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

that's a completely different tool. The tool i'm speaking of would create a perfect walkfile from maya model with locators added. No need to convert from sailorpoints!

That sounds like the old ShipWalk tool that was used to generate the original PotC's walk files.
We actually have that available right here: http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?/files/file/25-potcwalk/
I think that is a Maya plugin that works from locators set up in Maya.
Not sure if such a tool exists for making AoP sailorspoints files.
But that would be a non-issue if somebody could make that conversion program I suggested previously.

 

[Iron Roger Flint]

that's a completely different tool. The tool i'm speaking of would create a perfect walkfile from maya model with locators added. No need to convert from sailorpoints!

That sounds like the old ShipWalk tool that was used to generate the original PotC's walk files.
We actually have that available right here: http://forum.pirates...le/25-potcwalk/
I think that is a Maya plugin that works from locators set up in Maya.
Not sure if such a tool exists for making AoP sailorspoints files.
But that would be a non-issue if somebody could make that conversion program I suggested previously.

Actually that tool can also create locators from SP file. If combined that and this it might be possible to create a proper walkfile

I was however asking the russian modder for a tool version that can create SP and Walk files simultaneously, that means also converting SP into Walkies

If steamers are to be used I don't mind them being added then. But how much will it add to the Build mod package? I'm concerned about Build becoming too massive for general players to download. How about we upload the beta to some torrent site too? Is it worth a try? since we all have it it would not be an issue of an uploading speed of 0.0kb/s

 

[Pieter Boelen]

How much will the steamers add to the Build download? 10 MB at max, I think.
So increase in size isn't much of an issue. In fact, this effort by SWS more than compensates for the size.

I am not aware of any SP and Walk tool existing. We've got the PotC Walk file one and the Sailorstool.
As far as I know, there is nothing else and we'd need a conversion program.
Either way, I think we could use a conversion program anyway so the files we have now can be made to work with the other game(s).

I wouldn't object to the Build Mod being put on a torrent and maybe that could even help with publicity.
But I won't be setting it up and I won't be seeding it either. Someone else would be welcome to try.

 

[carmenara]

*Russian accent* Good. Now we can continue documentation

the problem with them is that this project was rushed and that never leads to good results. I'm only being a critic. Cryticism is what moves to improving the product to be closer to perfect. You can't blame people for that.

The problem is you getting your hands on other peoples' PERSONAL TEST DATA and making a mountain out of a molehill and demanding others cease their creative good work to appease your personal standards.

You are also keen on making personal attacks to defend yourself with the "get out more statement" which should be logically, applied to yourself. People who don't get out and work but keep complaining about the same thing over and over again don't deserve anything. I suggest getting a hold of that sailorspoint file, fixing things and shutting the hell up while the rest of the world finish polishing up Beta for next week's release.

Rushed project? You're looking at the wrong project to stick that label on. I also do not report to you, or work for you. Suffice to say, you don't need to know the intellectual logistics chain for this project, which was based on concepts made several years ago. Now that the resources are in place to put that concept into reality, less than 48 hours are required to create a prototype, no whining, no procrastination thanks to previous Build developers.

Now that is productivity. Welcome to the real world.


Update

Do we actually need documentation? What does steam propulsion do for the maritime world? Who doesn't know that?

All that we can say then, is that one cynic doesn't affect the decision of a committee, not unless work is paid in kind. Efforts to deny the global Build Beta their share of innovative entertainment, fail. Now then gentlemen, we DO have a number of final Build touches to make and I suggest getting out of my shipyard before anyone gets killed to death.

 

[morgan terror]

you know, i'm used to a more profound chimney, at least three times the width of the one i see there. any historical facts on that? just out of interest. the bend is obviously for catching sparks, i'd say. don't want those in your sails.

 

[carmenara]

Duly noted, but until we have a period-accurate steam ship model the implementation is more valuable to us than anything else. It proves a lot of things.

I was waiting for someone to notice this

We could take a look at a few historical steam warships of the 1850s and their appearance agrees with your proposal of a larger stack; but for now let's just use some creative technobabble and the "experimental" flag. I'm pretty thankful for a modeller stopping by and offering his services on short notice such that Pieter can play with a 'dirty coal ship'!

Ps stack is much thicker in the release version. The above is a WIP shot with a different roof and no way to get the boat out.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Personally I'd also prefer a big stack (or maybe two), but I'm not complaining.
For a modeler to come by and give us a paddlesteamer is already really cool.
The stack does make her look like an experimental model, which is what she's supposed to be anyway.
We can always add more steamer models to the game at a later time.

 

[morgan terror]

in that case, there is a niggling little thing that confuses me a bit: even on historical images, there is no spark snatcher. doesn't really make sense with all the highly flammable stuff around. it's probably because it's a coalburner, and snatchers were only used on woodburners, in particular in the americas where wood was used far more than coal. just rambling, i guess, since i've heard we're implementing coal as a trading item anyway.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Implementing coal? We don't have any actual plans on doing that at the moment.

 

[Kazen Dukzom]

Aye. That was my idea which it didn't go down that well.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It would make sense to add it for steamers, but at least with the current set-up,
we probably couldn't change the ship's sailing characteristics if you run out anyway.
Maybe better keep it the way it is and pretend you always have enough coal.
The steamships aren't pure uber-ships anyway.

 

[morgan terror]

fuel the engine with mahogany. oyyyyy....... : or better still:

what's with the smoke?
we're now driving on bananas!

 

[SuperChango]

Just to clear up doubts, here is the image i've used as a reference...
And, about the paddles, just in case anyone wonders, i decided to cover them mostly because there is no way (yet) to animate them, so it was a polywaste

 

[Pieter Boelen]

And, about the paddles, just in case anyone wonders, i decided to cover them mostly because there is no way (yet) to animate them, so it was a polywaste

Good thinking; that does make it less bothersome that they're not animated and it still looks fine.

 

[carmenara]

I think you really outdone yourself with the steamer and the San Martin SuperChango

And you modelled them in record time with little issues too!

 

[SuperChango]

Thanks guys, if i recall correctly, this reference is the second i've found (first was the css alabama), and seems to be the same kind of ship as the constitution...