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    Maelstrom New Horizons


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An updated mod of pure evil...

That should already be the case. Your fists are equipped as soon as you start the game. They are only de-equipped when you equip another blade. You can't de-equip a blade without equipping another one. Which is why I wonder why noy1971 didn't have any blade equipped at all with the result of him not being attacked. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />
 
I just checked the mod as well and I DID have my fists equipped straight away. So no problems there. Beats me why it didn't work for noy1971. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

As far as balancing of the mod goes, I already found two issues while playing the mod one minute:
- I found a schiavone blade at the beach where I ended up
- When leaving the beach, I encountered some bandits who wanted to rob me. I didn't have any money though. I tried to give them all I had, but they thought I had more and killed me. Seems to me that it is a bit ridiculously hard to expect anyone to take on those bandits with their fists alone! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
 
let them join your crew. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=179102:date=Jan 15 2007, 11:58 AM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Jan 15 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]179102[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
let them join your crew. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
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I thought that it was related to luck, and perhaps leadership.

If the player starts with low ability and no points to assign, then it would be likely that the "them join your crew." would fail. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
well, i know that it works with a leadership of 5 or less and no luck. it should be doable.
 
Hmm...checking these is going to be difficult as I don't have the latest alpha at the moment, so I can only go on the Build 13 compatible version. That said:

<b>Equip Fists bug</b>

The line to auto-equip a different blade at game start (as in the CCC original mod) was intentionally circumvented in one of the EVIL_STORMY triggers, as there is no other blade than your fists. However, your fists should already be equipped (from an earlier section in both_reaction.c, IIRC).

I haven't experienced this problem, as my fists are always equipped when starting EVIL_STORMY_START. I'm not convinced its a problem with this mod, although this mod is probably making it more obvious as you don't start with any other weapons. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

I could add in a rusty dagger - however, it has to be said, anyone intentionally not equipping their weapon in this situation isn't exactly playing in the spirit of the mod, are they? If the fists aren't auto-equipping, as they should, then what's to stop someone simply un-equipping the dagger for the same effect?

<b>French Invasion Movie bug</b>

Shouldn't this only trigger on leaving Oxbay for the first time? I don't recall it triggering for me before I'd landed at Oxbay and subsequently sailed off...

I've not noticed it equipping additional items, either. It shouldn't do - especially as anything relating to the standard starting items *should* be specifically circumvented by this mod. Unless I've missed one.

Has anyone else noticed this bug happening?

<b>Brand New Schiavona at Starting Beach bug</b>

This infuriates me as well. In an ideal world, I'd do a comprehensive sweep of all the random swords / loot that can be picked up at no risk to the player and remove the lot of them if this mod is selected. Or stop them from appearing until the player is at least level 5, or some such.

However, this may take some time...*sighs*...its on the list, though.

<b>Slaughtered by Bandits bug</b>

I'm loath to actually call this a bug, but if people are experiencing genuine problems with it then I'm willing to be open-minded...

The easy solution to this problem would be to give the player a blade which they can block with. The normal outcome of this is that they slay any bandits who challenge them. If they can do that, then one of the two 'evil' features of this mod is immediately disabled, the only problem then being that they don't have a starting fund of money to begin trading with. However, if they can loot bandit corpses then this can be solved quite quickly.

Another solution would be to allow the player to select a couple of skill-ups at game start, in addition to being given an ability (is that concession not enough? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> ). However, I'm not convinced that a leadership of 2-3 would drastically change the problem...there'd still be a fair chance of the bandits electing to kill you - and if all players do is instantly assign points to leadership, then I'm not sure that the mod is really working as designed.

My preferred alternative would be making bandits automatically let you go if you have no gold (or if you're below a certain level, if you want an easier start) but is giving the player an automatic cop-out really in the spirit of the mod?


My personal feeling is to leave this unchanged unless people find that they're encountering this problem too frequently before being able to:

a) find the Leaky Bucket
b) find a town
c) mug someone

Those are supposed to be the three possible routes to launch your piratical career in Evil Stormy Start, and none of them offers a solution with no risk (intentionally).

How do people feel about this, though. Is the Evil Stormy Start just too damn evil?
 
the realeasing of a weapon is impossible. i know that i can't do it unless i equip something else. or maybe that was with a different item. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=179134:date=Jan 15 2007, 08:21 PM:name=The Diamond)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Diamond @ Jan 15 2007, 08:21 PM) [snapback]179134[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I could add in a rusty dagger - however, it has to be said, anyone intentionally not equipping their weapon in this situation isn't exactly playing in the spirit of the mod, are they? If the fists aren't auto-equipping, as they should, then what's to stop someone simply un-equipping the dagger for the same effect?
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You can't de-equip a blade when you already have equipped one. You can equip a different blade, but not de-equip the blade. In any case: I tested the Build 14 Alpha compatible version of the mod and I had my fists equipped at the start of the game; no problem with that.

<!--quoteo(post=179134:date=Jan 15 2007, 08:21 PM:name=The Diamond)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Diamond @ Jan 15 2007, 08:21 PM) [snapback]179134[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>Slaughtered by Bandits bug</b>
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The problem with this is that when you start the game with just your fists equipped, you can't block at all. So if you encounter any bandits, you're already dead. You have 0 money, but they don't believe you so they kill you straight away. I think the player should stand some sort of chance somehow. You can, of course, leave the location, then enter again until you find no bandits, but that is pretty unrealistic. With the player's leadership and luck at 0, you probably can't get the bandits to join your crew or cut you some wood either.

What I would suggest is to add a dialog option to the bandit dialog where the bandits will let you go if the players level is smaller than, say, 5 AND the Evil Stormy Start is enabled. That would make sure the bandits don't kill you straight away. It seems a bit silly to have the player stand no chance at all. So somehow there should be an option to give the player a chance to survive if he does the right thing.
 
I AOP, you need to reach a certain level to use a particular sword, if we could implent it in here, you still could find that sword, but you couldnt use it.
 
How would that work? Blade is unequippable? You press the button but nothing happens? Could be done, but I'm not sure if we would want to. Seems a bit unrealistic and odd to me... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
yeah, you could not equip it.

but, you havent got the problem, that you can use high level blades when you are still lvl 1, or connect them to abilities, instead of skills, so that you need proffesional fencer for the corsairs pride.
 
or basic defence to use anything above a schiavona. (up to a certain blade of course. you would need professional defence to use anything above a highlander or a maltese knight sword, for example) it's likely to be one of the first skills you would learn, so the low level of the wepon shouldn't be a problem. or maybe it shoud be anything above a badelaire. maybe, to make programming it easier, all weapons could be given a number, and that you would be able to use numbers one to 5 or somethign like that without having basic defense. or maybe the 'level' of the weapon could be used. you know, what decides at which level you find it.
 
<!--quoteo(post=179100:date=Jan 15 2007, 04:37 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Jan 15 2007, 04:37 PM) [snapback]179100[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I just checked the mod as well and I DID have my fists equipped straight away. So no problems there. Beats me why it didn't work for noy1971. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
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When I start a game using B14 and latest updates (obviously with the evil stormy start), there is <b>no</b> fists option at all (there use to be before adding the mod) . I have not de-selected them anywhere either.

Any ideas where I can look to address this?
 
<!--quoteo(post=179134:date=Jan 15 2007, 08:21 PM:name=The Diamond)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Diamond @ Jan 15 2007, 08:21 PM) [snapback]179134[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>French Invasion Movie bug</b>

Shouldn't this only trigger on leaving Oxbay for the first time? I don't recall it triggering for me before I'd landed at Oxbay and subsequently sailed off...
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That has been changed lately, see quest_reactions.c:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->
//KK & TIH -->
                SetQuestHeader("Story_OxbayCaptured");
                if (ENABLE_FLAGS == 0) {
                    // do the original code, original quest text only
                    AddQuestRecord("Story_OxbayCaptured", "2");
                    PostVideoAndQuest("Invasion",500,"Story_MapLoadAfterleavingOxbay");
                    bSkipSeaLogin = true;
                } else {
                    // do enhanced flag deception and sailing method
                    AddQuestRecord("Story_OxbayCaptured", "1");
                    Pchar.quest.Story_InvasionVideoAfterLeaveOxbay.win_condition.l1 = "MapEnter";
                    Pchar.quest.Story_InvasionVideoAfterLeaveOxbay.win_condition = "Story_InvasionVideoAfterLeaveOxbay";
                }
//KK & TIH <--
<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
So if the flag mod is enabled the invasion is triggered the first time you enter the map. (win_condition.l1 = "MapEnter")
FAIK this was done because you can now sail out of Oxbay port under a false flag. But this may be the reason why we lately had reports about the movie playing out of context.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
How do people feel about this, though. Is the Evil Stormy Start just too damn evil?
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I'm still busy with B13, so I haven't tried this yet, but I would say that only people who want a really tough challenge will choose this mod. So I wouldn't water it down.
I could live with the fact that sometimes you have absolutely no chance. A pirate's life ain't fair, so why should a pirate game be always winable?
 
<!--quoteo(post=179186:date=Jan 16 2007, 09:29 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Jan 16 2007, 09:29 AM) [snapback]179186[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<b>Slaughtered by Bandits bug</b>
The problem with this is that when you start the game with just your fists equipped, you can't block at all. So if you encounter any bandits, you're already dead. You have 0 money, but they don't believe you so they kill you straight away. I think the player should stand some sort of chance somehow. You can, of course, leave the location, then enter again until you find no bandits, but that is pretty unrealistic. With the player's leadership and luck at 0, you probably can't get the bandits to join your crew or cut you some wood either.
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The code for that is in Enc_raiders_dialog.c:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->
            // ccc stormy start
            Link.l3 = DLG_TEXT[48];
            if (rand(100) + (makeint(pchar.skill.Leadership)*2) >20) {Link.l3.go = "join";}
            else {Link.l3.go = "Node_2";}

            Link.l4 = DLG_TEXT[49];
            if (rand(100) + (makeint(pchar.skill.Leadership)*2) >20) {Link.l4.go = "planks";}
            else {Link.l4.go = "Node_2";}

            // ccc stormy start end
<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
So even if your Leadership is 0 you should be able to convince the bandits whenever rand(100) is greater than 20.
If you want to increase that chance decrease the "20".

BTW, can you sneak or run past those bandits, or is this one of those cases where the game takes control of the player and freezes him? (I hate that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/urgh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":urgh" border="0" alt="urgh.gif" /> )
 
When you come too close to the bandits, the game takes control of the player. The pchar walks up to the bandits and the dialog starts without the playing being able to run.
 
not with me. when i start running when i've sneaked past them, i often find that they where following me all the time to stop me when i had reached the next loading spot. one tip with bandits: i've noticed that they don't talk to you when they aren't facing you, unless you walk in the midle of them, allowing you to walk around them sometimes. also: when they have talked to you and attack you, you usually still can make a run for it.
 
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