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Additional nations in game

feh. turn the pirate nation into the brotherood. would give a use for joining them too.
 
I thought the pirate nation, as it is, would be a general classification for independant pirates who will attack anything and anyone including each other.

The pirate brotherhood, I think, could have a flashy name and operate as a cohesive unit with fleets and objectives and such. They could raid ports with their superior numbers and organization, whereas the independants could not.

I think there was such a brotherhood run by Edward Teach (or was it Henry Morgan), he eventually turned mercenary to the french I believe and was pardoned for his crimes, along with all his men.. but that's besides my point.
 
Ah, that was probably it. That's what I get for learning my caribbean history from television Docu-drama's :p
 
I never object to new features if somebody adds it.
However, I think it'd be simpler to just take the pirate nation and add some more purpose.
Such as actually giving an advantage in joining the pirates.
Perhaps some additional piratey fun stuff? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Wow I missed this discussion completely - damn! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> :
But everybody is right, Denmark was a tiny, puny, insignificant nation compared to the elder powers in the Caribbean like Spain, Britain and France. Pieter, if you need info on possible Danish advantages/disadvantages, this could be said about our colonies in the Caribbean:

At normal, "peaceful" times, our naval "power" consisted only of a couple of warships, usually a fregate and a brig, and some schooners for scouting and collecting customs from ships passing through the straits.
In times of escalated danger, i.e. during the French-Indian Wars, the Independence- Revolutionary- and Napoleonic wars, everything from heavy fregates and down could be found in our straits (like somebody mentioned earlier).

- Britain somehow respected or feared us at some point, but I am not entirely sure why..It might have something to do with the "what-we-had-was-never-much, hence-we-had-nothing-to-loose"-factor. A typical example is a battle with a Danish brig and a schooner, and 3 British fregates, which we actually won?! Skills, luck <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> ..I dont know..

-We were always good at diplomacy. As a consequence of the French guvernor letting Denmark form the papers for buying St.Croix, they soon discovered some small letters mentioning a mutual non-attack clausule for 30 years after the sale. This way, we settled and officially claimed St. Jan(St.John) a few years later, right in front of their noses <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

-In the early period up to 1676, pirates and smugglers had a nice hiding place in the shelter of the natural beaches and the long 36-pounder guns of Christansfort at Charlotte Amalie, St.Thomas. Their spendings in the taverns and stores were huge, due to their raids against especially French and British ships. The military watchtower, Skytsborg, is even said to be the favourite residence of Edward "Blackbeard" Teach in those years!

<i>Some reading for fun - not relevant</i>
Even though we achieved St.Thomas in 1665, we were still late compared to i.e. Holland, who knew the conditions already - everything went wrong: deceases, famine, tropical storms and starvation was daily news for everybody and ruined most farmers during our 251 years as a colonization power in the Caribbean. The average lifespan for a citizen of St.Thomas, St.Croix and St. Jan altogether has been calculated to about 6 years. People died in the Caribbean and nobody wanted to go there, except for long-time prisoners and scumbags who had nothing to loose. I think, this translation from a historybook is appropriate to examplify on this matter:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hiring a crew for the ship meant for transporting the new guvernor, Jørgen Iversen Dybbøl (his precessor was hanged in Copenhagen for the above mentioned luxurious conditions he made for pirates) to St.Thomas, proved extremely difficult. Even when forced, no Danish officers wanted the task and therefore some Dutch officers were hired. Even the crew had to be found in the Copenhagen prisons!
From the very beginning, disagreements between Iversen Dybbøl and the officers could be heard among the crew. The ship made it no longer than to the Channel, before a mutiny lead to the killing of Iversen Dybbøl, his pregnant wife and their children - all thrown overboard. Later, the Dutch officers shared their unfortunate destiny as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In order to receive naval and financial support from Denmark, the islands had to find a way to bring fortunes back home. So, slavery became our trade. Against all modern ethics, I unfortunately must admit that we were the best in the archipelago at this:

A triangular route was established by some smart Copenhagen merchants, who bought or charted a ship and loaded it to the max with weapons, clothing and liquors. The ship then traveled to our forts in Western Africa (today Accra, Ghana). The goods were sold here in exchange for slaves. Transporting them to Fort Christian at St.Thomas, the merchant would sell the slaves in the yard, that was already stuffed with streetmerchants (distributing the slaves to all the other nations, whose production of sugar and cotton were of much larger proportions). Now sugar and the local brew, Cruzan Rum(still brewed, tastes wonderful!) were being loaded and the ship headed home, making the merchant a fortune once the cargo was sold.

Sorry, this became an entire article and not the short note, I initially intended to post. Nothing new here, I guess <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />
 
Thanks for that Peter. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
An interesting read ... which has given me an idea for a nice little side quest. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
Me likes the idea too. I think the Danish are the first on my list after the Dutch and Portugese (and the Dutch are almost finished, so.)
 
Thanks indeed, Peter! Be sure Pirate_KK sees this! Send him a PM.
 
Maybe the danish govenor could give you slave trade realted quests as well as pirate hunting ones, or even instead of them.
 
Well, I've added a side quest in 14.8 (Jack Sparrow - work in progress) where the great Peter Willemoes (due to his renown diplomatic skills as a representative of the Danish King [Christian V - I believe]) gets involved with Jack and the pirates (in providing them a haven) after Jack has proved himself on a slave run for Cutler Beckett by refusing to transport the slaves. And their struggles in these events. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

I think that has most points covered. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
HAHA thats great! (Hey, wait - I could get hanged for doing that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />) ...Naah!! whatz ze fuzz about it...i´ll redeem as a pirate then! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Not that it matters, Short Jack, its just a coincidence - it actually blends in fine with historical facts. I am actually a lieutenant down there at one point <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

But I have to admit this slavetrading thing is driving me a bit nuts here, ethics-wise. I know its not like we are making the player running slaves or anything, its just a background for a story and it could of course just be me being weird again, but...mentioning slaves in PotC at all? ..
 
I love the ideas being bandied about regarding national stats and how it should affect game play and pretty much agree with everything said.

I would like to suggest the idea that there might have been more than one Pirate 'faction'. There might very well have been those who actually ran thier group more like a nation and then a group that was much more independant and unwilling to follow any rules other than thier own.

As to just how to differentiate between the groups, that would be a bit stickier besides thier morality and methods.

Just my quarters worth here, but trading of slaves was pretty well standard practice back then. I think it should be a choice of ethics. You don't have to take slaver quests, but they should at least be available.

Then there are things like the slave quests available in AoP, that really make it sticky. Where its a Priest of the cloth, asking for 'Slaves' specifically so he can free them. Adds a really twisted bit of an ethical dilemma.

Makes things a mite more realistic in my view.

Cap'n Drow
 
<!--quoteo(post=272352:date=Aug 8 2008, 10:53 AM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Aug 8 2008, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=272352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say I have never really felt a good 'piratey atmosphere' in PotC yet. Especially compared to old Seadogs. So we might not loose that much. On the other hand, I can understand that some people might be afraid to find the game crownded by nations, flags, uniforms, navies, patriotism and all that when they just want to sail freely in exotic waters, seeking for treasure. It should just be a matter of ballance. For example, in some alpha Redmond port was crownded by navy officers - I personnaly found that annoying, I prefer salty sailors, dockers, poor people, etc.

But in my mind, historical accuracy don't necessary kill gameplay. Nope. I'm personnaly looking forward to see Sweden and Denmark in a next Build version.
In all means, no need to argue on this matter. Indeed Bartolomew Roberts was just asking for those new nations not to be added in the first time periods, and everybody agree on this. But he could consider banning 'f**k' and 'f**ky' from his vocabulary - no offence attempted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

How about the Ottoman Empire? They were still THE major power in the 15 and 1600s and basically had control over the southern seas; possibly the caribbean too. Prussia is a very good idea too.

Skye
 
<!--quoteo(post=283709:date=Oct 10 2008, 01:12 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Oct 10 2008, 01:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=283709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had to google Prussia, I had no clue what it was. Were they in the Caribbean? I can´t find anything on that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Prussia's the old monarchy kingdon of Germany, fell (i think) early 20th century, just before the great war.

There were several german colonies, though im not sure about islands, but certainly on the main land. but Ottoman I think did have a few possessions in the Spanish main. I'd just love to see that glorious red and white moon and star flag fluttering above my quarterdeck. The prussian eagles nice too; thyre ships were white, grey and gold, and in some cases, black. That'd be lovely.

Skye
 
<!--quoteo(post=283709:date=Oct 10 2008, 02:12 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Oct 10 2008, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=283709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had to google Prussia, I had no clue what it was. Were they in the Caribbean? I can´t find anything on that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Prussia was a "prototype" of Germany. In the darkness of the Middle Ages, just after Cruscades, Polish prince (or shall I rather call him an idiot), Konrad Mazowiecki (Conrad of Mazovia) "employed" "Ordo fratrum domus hospitalis Sanctae Mariae Theutonicorum in Jerusalem", or more correctly "Orden der Brüder vom Deutschen Haus Sankt Mariens in Jerusalem" ("Order of German House Brothers of St. Mary in Jerusalem") to conquer Prusians, non-chrystianized people who lived in the area between Gdańsk and Lithuania, reaching part of southern Baltic Sea shore. They easily defeated Prussians, as the idiot's will were, but they claimed captured region for themselves, instead of giving it to Mazovia. They took Mazovia too, anyway, and later even captured whole Pomerania from Poland, cutting its only access to the sea. After some long and bloody fights Poland, together with Lithuania, managed to defeat Prussish Germans. Unfortunately, they still remained as a threat: they became stronger when Poland was weakened after Polish-Sweden war in 1655-1660: they joined with Brandenburg and became one of the strongest german duches, next to Saxony. In 1775-1795 they participated, together with Russia and Austria, in three partitions of Poland. In XIX century they assimilated the rest of german countries (after Napoleonic wars, making use of "German Union" formed by Napoleon Bonaparte) and Germany emerged this way.

On the side note, initially "Orden der Brüder vom Deutschen Haus Sankt Mariens in Jerusalem" was asked for help in war by some Hungarian king (I don't remember who he was) but he quicly resigned from their service - wise decision.

My description is very short and maybe some wouldn't be satisfied with this text. Shall I be a German, I'd surely make some other description. However, I would object to put Prussia in game since till XIX century they weren't on the Carribbean at all (in late XIX century and early XX century they were trying to take some colonies in Africa and on Pacific Ocean, like Bismarck Islands, but their presence on Caribbean was only a merchant until I and II War Wars).

pirate_kk
 
A very good description, pirate_kk! Thank you.
It sounds like Prussia has been at war with every nation in Europe in just 200 years <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guns.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":2guns" border="0" alt="guns.gif" />

Capt_Drow, those are really good arguments, I´d say let the player decide as well. Being able to play with ethics is fun, as long as realistic consequences of your choices are, too. I rest my case <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
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