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A new look at the Tool

Hi,
Don't know about that one yo ho ho..... Manowar models open OK in my copy of TOOL <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
I had a problem opening the Manowar as well. Same as for Oxbay port. Thomas can confirm that one too.
 
Don't know whats going on then ?

[attachment=1938:manowar_in_tool.jpg]
[attachment=1939:eek:xbay_port.jpg]
 
Very strange. Some hardware/software issue then that applies to some people, but not all? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=269242:date=Jul 16 2008, 07:59 AM:name=Captain Hawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Captain Hawk @ Jul 16 2008, 07:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269242"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exported objects:
- polygonal mesh.

At the facility should be appointed material:
- Phong
- Lamber
Incadescene greater than zero for materials, light emitting energy. Value - energy density per unit area.
cosPow asks directions departure photons scatter relatively normal verteksov triangle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL.

That sounds so funny I have to try a translation:

Exported objects:
- polygonal mesh.

In the modeler program one of the following materials should be applied:
- Phong
- Lambert

The parameter "Glow" (is that right for incandescence ? - might be named differently in english Maya, though. Usually "emissive something") should be greater than zero for materials that emit light.
The value is the energy density per unit area.

The parameter "cosPow" (that would be a power of the cosine of the angle between the light's direction and the face normal) controls how light is scattered away from the triangle's normal.

--
I fear that's not much better since English ain't my native language either, nor do I know russian - or Maya, at that.
Maybe someone can check whether the Phong or Lambert Materials have any parameters named something like "Glow" or "cosPow".
Anyway that's just about fine tuning the materials. As long as you use standard Phong or Lambert you'll be ok.

But it would be helpful to get that text translated.

Anyone like to do another paragraph ? I won't do it all myself, but I'll try some more if someone joins in. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />o)

EDIT:
Sorry, I just noticed there already is another thread about this. Just can't read everything at once. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=269277:date=Jul 16 2008, 08:46 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jul 16 2008, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had a problem opening the Manowar as well. Same as for Oxbay port. Thomas can confirm that one too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Manowar (would that be Manowar1?) works for me, which is bad (because thus I cannot search for the problem).
Oxbay port gives me an error message. I may have some differences from the uploaded version, though. So I'll need to see if I can get at least Oxbay port to work. How about other locations? They all work?
AOP ships I cannot test until I aquire AOP, and I have no idea if they're all different from POTC ships. Can anyone here load AOP ships into the TOOL? Maybe that's something the TOOL just cannot handle.

About why some models work for some people but not for others eludes me - those models aren't even especially big (or are the textures?). I'd say a hardware issue, too, but no idea why or how. It's not that the TOOL requires topnotch hardware or anything - I wrote and tested most of it on my laptop - which couldn't even run POTC.
Only other thing I can think of would be installed DirectX version oder .Net framework version. How about you all compare what graphics hardware (with how much Memory), what operating system, what DX Version and .Net framework version you're using ? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
I know that all <i>port</i> locations open just fine, except Oxbay Port. Thomas the Terror found that out when he made the port landscapes visible in the deck scene. <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=11360" target="_blank">See here</a> for more information on that mod. Unfortunately the screenshots have since disappeared. Not sure about all non-port locations though.

I think AoP ships work just fine in the TOOL, because they're pretty much the same as PotC ones, apart from a slightly higher level of detail. AoP ships can also be readily put into PotC without any trouble. They'll just be crew-less because AoP uses different walk files (sailorspoints).

There is a problem with the GM Viewer on Windows Visa where the textures on character models doesn't show. I heard reported that this has to do with a too recent .NET Framework or something like that. Possibly something similar is going on here?
 
<!--quoteo(post=269308:date=Jul 16 2008, 11:08 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jul 16 2008, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269308"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a problem with the GM Viewer on Windows Visa where the textures on character models doesn't show. I heard reported that this has to do with a too recent .NET Framework or something like that. Possibly something similar is going on here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do use Vista and have the same problem with Gm Viewer (now that's strange actually), but the TOOL works fine for Oxbay port. But even so it could have to do with that - you can have different framework versions on your machine. I'm not anymore sure which one the TOOL would use.
 
Vista (SP1) - DirectX 9.0c and how do I find my .NET Framework version? As far as I know, I have the latest.
 
I don't know how you'd find your net framework version Pieter.....I only know mine because I had to download and install it manualy.
 
Ahoy Inez! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

Really nice to see you again, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> and sorry to read that "real life" is imposing itself on your time, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dp_nogd.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ng" border="0" alt="dp_nogd.gif" /> and here's hoping that things start going the way you'd like them to soon. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

If I haven't said it lately; thank you again for providing us with the TOOL! Aside from what it can do on its own, when coupled with a modeling program it creates innumberable opportunites for modding the character models in the game! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" /> I've been having a lot more success on modifying and importing character models since I updated to the most recent version of the TOOL, and the skeleton is extrordinarily helpful to the whole process. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/love.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":luv" border="0" alt="love.gif" />

I'm available at your convenience and hopefully my two doubloons worth of experience from working with Blender and TOOL will be of use to you. One thing I should point out first is that I'm using the 2.41 version of Blender and not the most updated version of that program. I had problems trying to export VRMLs with the most current version of Blender, and I read that people were able to accomplish this with the older version, and I found that it also worked for me. Other than that, please bear in mind that I have almost no idea of what I'm doing.... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
For someone who doesn't know what he's doing, you're doing quite a good job. Of course *I* don't know what I'm doing either most of the time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

Anyway, I am quoting some relevant posts from the <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=12009" target="_blank">Ships with lighting on the wrong side</a> thread:
<!--quoteo(post=269596:date=Jul 18 2008, 07:58 PM:name=SirChristopherMings)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SirChristopherMings @ Jul 18 2008, 07:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pieter,

I'll check it out... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/readon.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="readon.gif" /> This is very exciting, but I haven't had any time to work on this. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/328_skull.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":328_skull:" border="0" alt="328_skull.gif" />

I can tell you that my theory doesn't work on character models; there doesn't appear to be any effect as far as lighting goes by duplicating and mirroring the models, but the ship models and character models are different and may respond differently.

My theory grew out of my experiences of trying to import rooms that I had altered where I found that only by not checking reverse normals in TOOL for import could I get the model to appear correctly in game. The model looked completely backwards in the TOOL window, but worked correctly in the game, and alternatively if the model looked right in the TOOL window it was inside-out in the game! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/8q.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":8q" border="0" alt="8q.gif" />

Since both ships and rooms are static models, with no moving parts like character models, I'm thinking they may need the same settings for import. I'll look around for a copy of one of the ship models and try it out, but it may be a while before I'm able to get to it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bird.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yoho" border="0" alt="bird.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=269610:date=Jul 18 2008, 11:31 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jul 18 2008, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269610"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I recall something like that as well, but it only applied to some models and not all. But in any case, the new ships we put in are visible from the right side. But perhaps it's only the normals that are facing the right side and there's some sort of lighting information that is turning the wrong side. I recall Kazeite did mention the Black Pearl was actually mirrored after exporting with the TOOL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
 
<!--quoteo(post=269085:date=Jul 14 2008, 03:09 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jul 14 2008, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you import a VRML file with your TOOL, it asks you from which model to copy the collision data. If you press cancel, it should be generated by the program, but I don't think that works. So instead we just selected a ship GM file that has a sort-of similar size. This doesn't generate any real errors, but does make for weird effects, such as the 1st person mode camera moving through the ship or floating above it. Also when you would use a Manowar's collision data for a Tartane, that would make for really silly effects as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Pieter</b>, I think you confused collision data with path file <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

And yes, every ship I've exported via TOOL was mirrored in the process.
 
Ehm... indeed I am. My mistake. The 1st person camera has nothing to do with the ship GM's collision data. The _path GM file is used for that. But does it use the collision data of the _path GM file or something else? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />
 
It uses separate model. Basically, _path GM file is a separate object with its own collision data (just like every mast and yard), exported into separate file, and one can import collision data from other path files for his model. I actually did that for the <i>Black Pearl</i> - original path file made by Russians was visible in certain places in 1st person view (it's invisible when you look at it from above, but visible when viewed from below (like looking underneath the stairs)), so I simply imported single triangle into the TOOL, added collision data from Russian path file, and voila - this one triangle is safely tucked inside the hull and impossible to spot, while invisible collision data allows player to walk around the ship without ghosting though the hull <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Now that I think about it, Russian path file for the <i>Interceptor</i> is probably also visible when viewed from below, but in this case, it shouldn't be a problem, since there's no place player can get underneath it and see it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
Having opened several _path files in the GM Viewer, many of the stock game's ships also have path files that are visible from below.
 
About the ships lighting: I think what the "reverse normals" checkbox in the TOOL does is actually not reversing the normals but just the order of the vertices in the triangle. Since that order controls which side is the backface and thus not dislayed ("culled"), checking or unchecking that checkbox will give the effects Sir Christopher describes. What I had originally assumed when writing the TOOL was that normals would always face outwards from the *front* side of the triangle may not necessarily be right.
So I believe we will actually need two independent checkboxes, one for the vertex order (or the cull mode) and one for the direction of the normals.
I'm working on that, it's not difficult but I'm currently having trouble to get the TOOL compiled with the new managed DirectXD version on Vista.

Meanwhile I've uploaded an experimental version of my Blender export plugin to the FTP (folder "Blender"). Feel free to try it out, to improve it, but I give no guarantees whatsoever.
Right now it cannot do animations yet, but that's what I think would be really cool if we could export the skeleton and then the animations right from Blender. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
 
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