Medium Priority New fast galleons

[Grey Roger]

The current Fast War Galleon is supposedly available to both France and Spain, but the fleur-de-lys markings around the stern make it only really suitable for France - and distinctly unsuitable for Spain when it's at war with France, e.g. in "Early Explorers" or during the War of the League of Augsburg. I'd considered making a new texture for it with a Spanish-style red hull and different stern decoration, and then noticed that there are already a couple of unused texture files. I've got as far as knocking up a new model file and hex-editing it to use one of these files.

Here's what a Fast Galleon looks like with "bortoutFsGaleon1.tga.tx":


And here it is with "bortoutFsGaleon2.tga.tx":


It's interesting that the current shipyard description for a Fast War Galleon is "At full speed she'll show her possibilities. Hull painted in red and brown". For the current ship, that's nonsense - she's painted in black and white. It's perhaps more fitting for "bortoutFsGaleon2.tgx.tx". Also, the Pirate Fast War Galleon is basically "bortoutFsGaleon2.tga.tx" with the red replaced by black and a skull and crossbones emblem on the stern instead of the coat of arms. So if I do resurrect "bortoutFsGaleon2.tga.tx", I'll probably change the platform around the stern, which at the moment is still identical to that on the Pirate version.

The question then becomes - which one do you want to see back? Both? Or should I just not bother if everyone just wants the current two fast galleons?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'd considered making a new texture for it with a Spanish-style red hull and different stern decoration, and then noticed that there are already a couple of unused texture files.

Are you sure it's unused? We removed a lot of superfluous ship models a good couple of years ago.
But when we did, I erased by entire Textures\Ships folder, loaded ALL ship models in sequence and put only the files back that were actually used.
So there shouldn't be any files there that aren't used.

Unless either:
1. That ship was removed AFTER that date
2. That texture is one of the many "ghost textures" referenced by the deck.gm files but not actually used.

I do think the "bortoutFsGaleon1" one is the most aestetically pleasing, which is why that one is still included.
If you say the ship description is wrong, then please do correct that!

That being said, if there are any nation-specific markings on her as you say, that does make her less fit for "general use".
I would be fine with keeping everything as-is, but with all national markings removed from "bortoutFsGaleon1".
"National Paint Schemes" is not really something appropriate for Early Explorers anyway, is it?

On the other hand, if you do want to give France and Spain their own versions, that's also perfectly fine by me.

 

[Grey Roger]

Are you sure it's unused? We removed a lot of superfluous ship models a good couple of years ago.
But when we did, I erased by entire Textures\Ships folder, loaded ALL ship models in sequence and put only the files back that were actually used.
So there shouldn't be any files there that aren't used.

"bortout" files tend to be specific to a type of ship. Use "ConvertorTX" on "bortoutFsGaleon1.tga.tx", for example. It's not random pieces of texture to be used as decks, it's basically half the entire hull side of a fast galleon with other bits and pieces to fill in the stern, prow, figurehead, deck and other details around this specific ship.

I do think the "bortoutFsGaleon1" one is the most aestetically pleasing, which is why that one is still included.
If you say the ship description is wrong, then please do correct that!

There's a bit of confusion here. For some reason, "FastGalleon1" (the current "Fast Galleon", the merchant one with only 9lb guns) uses "bortoutgaleon_h2.tga", while "FastGalleon2" (the "Fast War Galleon" with 18lb guns) uses "bortoutgaleon_h1.tga". I can't see anything which uses "bortoutFsGaleon1" or "bortoutFsGaleon2".

The description for "FastGalleon2" is the incorrect one, referring to "red and brown".

That being said, if there are any nation-specific markings on her as you say, that does make her less fit for "general use".
I would be fine with keeping everything as-is, but with all national markings removed from "bortoutFsGaleon1".
"National Paint Schemes" is not really something appropriate for Early Explorers anyway, is it?

"bortoutFsGaleon1" is the one shown above with light wooden hull, green and red/yellow markings around the upper hull, and crossed keys on the stern. It has no national markings. If this one is resurrected, I'm inclined to make it an alternative scheme for the merchant Fast Galleon.

"bortoutgaleon_h1" is the current one for the "Fast War Galleon", with fleur-de-lys markings around the stern platform. I'd want to resurrect "bortoutFsGaleon2" to provide a red-hulled Spanish alternative.

I'll tell you what put me onto this. Long ago, before anyone (including Disney) had ever heard of "Pirates of the Caribbean", one of my hobbies was building plastic models. I found a picture of a Spanish ship which looked fairly similar to the Revenge, for which there was a small scale kit - in fact, I'd already built that. So I got another one and converted it to the Spanish ship. More recently, I found the Spanish model, somewhat the worse for wear, and had the idea to retexture the PoTC Fast War Galleon to look like it - the shape and sail layout were pretty well identical. I got as far as TXConverting "bortoutgaleon_h1.tga.tx" and "bortoutgaleon_h2.tga.tx" as a starting point, then noticed these other two bortouts with similar layout and suspiciously suitable names, plugged them into model "FastGalleon3" which was basically a straight copy of the entire "FastGalleon2" folder with all the files renamed, and the results are in the first post of this thread.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

"bortout" files tend to be specific to a type of ship. Use "ConvertorTX" on "bortoutFsGaleon1.tga.tx", for example. It's not random pieces of texture to be used as decks, it's basically half the entire hull side of a fast galleon with other bits and pieces to fill in the stern, prow, figurehead, deck and other details around this specific ship.

That's only because the stock games (AoP:CT in this case!) happened to use that as a naming convention.
But with the tremendously heavy modding that has been done on ships over the past years, there is no guarantee that it is actually unique.

What you could do is to double-check all ship models that use the same hull shape (should be only a handful) to see if any of them do actually use it.
Chances are that it is indeed "unused", but a quick double-check probably can't hurt.

There's a bit of confusion here. For some reason, "FastGalleon1" (the current "Fast Galleon", the merchant one with only 9lb guns) uses "bortoutgaleon_h2.tga", while "FastGalleon2" (the "Fast War Galleon" with 18lb guns) uses "bortoutgaleon_h1.tga". I can't see anything which uses "bortoutFsGaleon1" or "bortoutFsGaleon2".

The description for "FastGalleon2" is the incorrect one, referring to "red and brown".

Honestly can't remember what happened there. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to do whatever you think is right.

"bortoutFsGaleon1" is the one shown above with light wooden hull, green and red/yellow markings around the upper hull, and crossed keys on the stern. It has no national markings. If this one is resurrected, I'm inclined to make it an alternative scheme for the merchant Fast Galleon.

That first one I would definitely want to have used in the mod; it's nice!

As for the second one, I leave that choice up to you. It's not bad either, so it might as well be used somewhere too.

 

[Jack Rackham]

I would say "bortoutFsGaleon2" is much nicer. IMHO.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I would say "bortoutFsGaleon2" is much nicer. IMHO.

I think that settles it. Use both!

 

[Grey Roger]

What you could do is to double-check all ship models that use the same hull shape (should be only a handful) to see if any of them do actually use it.
Chances are that it is indeed "unused", but a quick double-check probably can't hurt.

There are two ships with that shape - "FastGalleon1" and "FastGalleon2". They don't use those textures. (The "RNRevenge" types are sort of similar, just as their plastic counterpart was all those years ago. But they don't use those textures either.)

That first one I would definitely want to have used in the mod; it's nice!

I would say "bortoutFsGaleon2" is much nicer. IMHO.

One all, then. Good - "FastGalleon3" is going to be a second merchant type using "bortoutFsGaleon1", available generally, while "FastGalleon4" will be Spain's version of France's "FastGalleon2".

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There are two ships with that shape - "FastGalleon1" and "FastGalleon2". They don't use those textures.

There must be at least a "PiratFastGal", right?

One all, then. Good - "FastGalleon3" is going to be a second merchant type using "bortoutFsGaleon1", available generally, while "FastGalleon4" will be Spain's version of France's "FastGalleon2".

Which ones will all end up existing then? Five (including the Pirate one) does seem a bit much.
But I don't mind.

 

[Grey Roger]

True, I'd forgotten "PiratFastGal", which uses a different texture that is very similar to "bortoutFsGaleon2" but with the red stripes replaced by black and the stern art replaced by a skull and crossbones.

"FastGalleon1" is available to Portugal and Spain, and to a lesser extent France and Holland. I can either let all of them use "FastGalleon3" as well, or split them so that two nations use "FastGalleon1" and the other two get "FastGalleon3".

"FastGalleon2" is currently available to France and Spain, and to a much lesser extent also to Pirates. I intend to remove Spain's access to it as Spain gets "FastGalleon4" instead, and Pirates get limited access to that as well.

"PiratFastGal" is only available as a shipyard paint option. It has "refShip.CanEncounter" and "refShip.CanBuy" both set to false, so if you meet a pirate in a Fast War Galleon, it won't be that one unless the pirate in question is Roche Brasiliano - the ship is reserved for his use in the "Assassin" storyline. (Suggestion: if it really is supposed to be reserved, perhaps remove its "refShip.Model" so you can't get it in the shipyard either. You can repaint your normal Fast War Galleon between the French and Spanish versions instead.)

One of Silehard's pirate friends has a Fast War Galleon, specifically "FastGalleon2", in the battle at Cozumel. I am open to suggestions as to what sort of ship he should have instead, because the Fast War Galleon is normally limited to the first three periods and has no business appearing in "Colonial Powers".

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What are the colour schemes that go with Fast Galleons 1-4 again? I'm getting a bit confused, I'm afraid...

"PiratFastGal" is only available as a shipyard paint option. It has "refShip.CanEncounter" and "refShip.CanBuy" both set to false, so if you meet a pirate in a Fast War Galleon, it won't be that one unless the pirate in question is Roche Brasiliano - the ship is reserved for his use in the "Assassin" storyline. (Suggestion: if it really is supposed to be reserved, perhaps remove its "refShip.Model" so you can't get it in the shipyard either. You can repaint your normal Fast War Galleon between the French and Spanish versions instead.)

It was indeed meant to be a quest ship. @Bartolomeu o Portugues can decide if he'd want her available as a repaint option.
If her stats are not IDENTICAL to the normal ones, for certain "refShip.model" should be removed!

 

[Grey Roger]

"FastGalleon1": current "Fast Galleon":


"FastGalleon2": current "Fast War Galleon":


"FastGalleon3": proposed resurrection of "bortoutFsGaleon1":


"FastGalleon4": proposed resurrection of "bortoutFsGaleon2":

(Note the new platform round the stern compared to the shot in post #1. The original platform is identical to the one on "PiratFastGal", so I changed it.)

If her stats are not IDENTICAL to the normal ones, for certain "refShip.model" should be removed!

The stats are almost identical. By default "PiratFastGal" gets 18lb carronades, meaning it's a bit short-changed because its maximum calibre, like "FastGalleon2" (and the proposed "FastGalleon4") is 18, so they're perfectly capable of taking 18lb long guns. "FastGalleon2" has 18lb long guns by default. Also, "PirateFastGal" has a higher MinCrew (68) than "FastGalleon2" (45), but the same MaxCrew (390 on both). Performance stats are identical.

Also, this reminds me that I need to re-activate the "refShip.model" line for "FastGalleon1", currently commented out so you can't repaint a Fast Galleon into a Fast War Galleon. Of course, "FastGalleon1" and "FastGalleon3" will have a different model to "FastGalleon2" and "FastGalleon4", so you can repaint one Fast Galleon into another, you can paint one Fast War Galleon into another, but you still can't paint a Fast Galleon into a Fast War Galleon.

Incidentally, "FastGalleon2" has no stern art, just a plain black tail. Suggestions for what to put there are welcome, but note that the design must be symmetrical because the texture file only stores the left half of the picture, and the right half is its mirror image.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

"FastGalleon1": current "Fast Galleon":

I like that one; KEEP!

"FastGalleon2": current "Fast War Galleon":

Bit boring; I don't mind losing that one.

"FastGalleon3": proposed resurrection of "bortoutFsGaleon1":

Wow, that's some bright colours!
Still, looks nice.

This is a different model from the first two; this one has transparent windows.

"FastGalleon4": proposed resurrection of "bortoutFsGaleon2":

Not bad, but not one of my personal favourites.
Is that coast of arms on her stern not kind-of English-looking?

Same model as #3.

Also, this reminds me that I need to re-activate the "refShip.model" line for "FastGalleon1", currently commented out so you can't repaint a Fast Galleon into a Fast War Galleon. Of course, "FastGalleon1" and "FastGalleon3" will have a different model to "FastGalleon2" and "FastGalleon4", so you can repaint one Fast Galleon into another, you can paint one Fast War Galleon into another, but you still can't paint a Fast Galleon into a Fast War Galleon.

Great!

Incidentally, "FastGalleon2" has no stern art, just a plain black tail. Suggestions for what to put there are welcome, but note that the design must be symmetrical because the texture file only stores the left half of the picture, and the right half is its mirror image.

If she's to be the French variation, something French I suppose.
Big fleur-de-lis might work, but could be considered a bit excessive since I already see several of those surrounding the platform.
Something like a crown then, perhaps?

 

[Grey Roger]

Bit boring; I don't mind losing that one.

I've no intention of losing anything, the idea is to add alternatives!

Wow, that's some bright colours!
Still, looks nice.

This is a different model from the first two; this one has transparent windows.

It's the one you voted for earlier. Both "bortoutFsGaleon1" and "bortoutFsGaleon2" have transparent windows, so I'll need to see what happens in the game and make sure something is visible behind them. Especially "bortoutFsGaleon1", your favourite, as it has some additional large transparent areas.

Not bad, but not one of my personal favourites.
Is that coast of arms on her stern not kind-of English-looking?

Same model as #3.

They're all the same model, just different texture files, otherwise this wouldn't be happening. As for an alternate coat of arms:

If she's to be the French variation, something French I suppose.
Big fleur-de-lis might work, but could be considered a bit excessive since I already see several of those surrounding the platform.
Something like a crown then, perhaps?

Yes, the fleurs-de-lys are precisely why I want to make this a French ship and give Spain its own version. Getting away from a fleur-de-lys when looking for a French design is pretty difficult, especially if it's something associated with royalty, but I found a coat of arms of a noble family which is fleur-de-lys-free. This is the result:

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I've no intention of losing anything, the idea is to add alternatives!

Well, then keep her! I don't mind that either.

It's the one you voted for earlier.

Yes indeed. Seeing her larger does make her colours stand out more though.
I like bright colours though, so no worries there.

Both "bortoutFsGaleon1" and "bortoutFsGaleon2" have transparent windows, so I'll need to see what happens in the game and make sure something is visible behind them. Especially "bortoutFsGaleon1", your favourite, as it has some additional large transparent areas.

They're all the same model, just different texture files, otherwise this wouldn't be happening.

Oh, those transparent windows are done through textures only?
Isn't there an alternate model somewhere that has a cabin visible inside?
If not, I might suggest closing them up because it'll probably look weird.

As for an alternate coat of arms:

WAS the original one actually English-looking? Or was I just making things up? I'm not exactly an expert....

Anyway, your alternate one certainly looks to be higher quality. Nice job!

Yes, the fleurs-de-lys are precisely why I want to make this a French ship and give Spain its own version. Getting away from a fleur-de-lys when looking for a French design is pretty difficult, especially if it's something associated with royalty, but I found a coat of arms of a noble family which is fleur-de-lys-free. This is the result:

Pretty cool, that is. Does that particular design have any historical meaning, or did you just figure it would look nice?

 

[Jack Rackham]

I like the "FastGalleon4" as it keeps what I did like on the one I voted for. The "balcony" which was the only
thing I didn't like is change to something much better now.

 

[Grey Roger]

Oh, those transparent windows are done through textures only?
Isn't there an alternate model somewhere that has a cabin visible inside?
If not, I might suggest closing them up because it'll probably look weird.

There certainly isn't an alternate model with a cabin now. Perhaps in one of your old archives? But I doubt it, because why scrap that one and keep the version without a cabin?

So yes, I will certainly want to wipe the alpha maps to make the windows opaque, and "bortoutFsGaleon1" needs additional work because there are big transparent areas on the superstructure walls facing the deck. I don't know why they're there; even if there was something behind them, the effect would be that when you're in first person view walking around the ship, you'd try to walk into one of those areas and hit an invisible wall. So the walls are also going to need to be sealed up.

WAS the original one actually English-looking? Or was I just making things up? I'm not exactly an expert....

Anyway, your alternate one certainly looks to be higher quality. Nice job!

It's the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Navarre. A Google Image search for "Spanish coat of arms" turned up a few suitable candidates and that was my favourite.

Pretty cool, that is. Does that particular design have any historical meaning, or did you just figure it would look nice?

Again, a Google Image search for "French coat of arms" turned up a lot of pictures which are variants on a theme of fleur-de-lys, especially the one with three of them on a blue background, as seen on French flags in the earlier periods of the game. Most of those which didn't have fleurs-de-lys weren't associated with France, but with the family name "French". Then anything associated with post-Revolution France had to go. The best that was left was this:
The Red Thread Genealogy for the Lost Tribes of Israel

But it doesn't matter because I've found something better:


As to where that one came from, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. It's another joke tie-in to a film which has nothing to do with PoTC but did provide a good coat of arms to adorn the ship. Let's see if anyone can figure out where I got it...

Meanwhile, first screenshots:


Those will be used for interface pictures which, being from a front port quarter view, don't show the oddities associated with unwanted transparent bits.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There certainly isn't an alternate model with a cabin now. Perhaps in one of your old archives? But I doubt it, because why scrap that one and keep the version without a cabin?

I have not a clue. Maybe in CoAS? I assume one must have existed at some point, otherwise why have any transparent windows?

Maybe @Armada or @Hylie Pistof remembers better than me?

It's the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Navarre. A Google Image search for "Spanish coat of arms" turned up a few suitable candidates and that was my favourite.

Very nice!

Again, a Google Image search for "French coat of arms" turned up a lot of pictures which are variants on a theme of fleur-de-lys, especially the one with three of them on a blue background, as seen on French flags in the earlier periods of the game. Most of those which didn't have fleurs-de-lys weren't associated with France, but with the family name "French". Then anything associated with post-Revolution France had to go. The best that was left was this:
The Red Thread Genealogy for the Lost Tribes of Israel

I figured you wouldn't just choose something "at random". Cool find.

But it doesn't matter because I've found something better:

Oooh, that one IS better!

As to where that one came from, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. It's another joke tie-in to a film which has nothing to do with PoTC but did provide a good coat of arms to adorn the ship. Let's see if anyone can figure out where I got it...

Nothing springs to mind, I'm afraid....

Those will be used for interface pictures which, being from a front port quarter view, don't show the oddities associated with unwanted transparent bits.

Glorious!

 

[Homo eructus]

It's the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Navarre. A Google Image search for "Spanish coat of arms" turned up a few suitable candidates and that was my favourite.

It's kind of weird to see it on a galleon, as the Kingdom of Navarre didn't have access to the sea since the year 1200 Probably the coat of arms of Castile would be more appropriate but it's fine either way. Maybe that ship was built with Navarrese money and they wanted to leave their mark

Again, a Google Image search for "French coat of arms" turned up a lot of pictures which are variants on a theme of fleur-de-lys, especially the one with three of them on a blue background, as seen on French flags in the earlier periods of the game. Most of those which didn't have fleurs-de-lys weren't associated with France, but with the family name "French". Then anything associated with post-Revolution France had to go. The best that was left was this:
The Red Thread Genealogy for the Lost Tribes of Israel

But it doesn't matter because I've found something better:
View attachment 28982

As to where that one came from, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. It's another joke tie-in to a film which has nothing to do with PoTC but did provide a good coat of arms to adorn the ship. Let's see if anyone can figure out where I got it...

The white cross on blue background was pretty common for French military banners, so it can be associated to France as a country aswell.

 

[Grey Roger]

It's kind of weird to see it on a galleon, as the Kingdom of Navarre didn't have access to the sea since the year 1200 Probably the coat of arms of Castile would be more appropriate but it's fine either way. Maybe that ship was built with Navarrese money and they wanted to leave their mark

Funny you should say that, as Castile was another one I considered, and I've just found a full coat of arms rather than a plain shield. Which means:

The white cross on blue background was pretty common for French military banners, so it can be associated to France as a country aswell.

In the game, the white cross on blue background with the triple fleur-de-lys on blue shield in the middle is our pre-revolutionary merchant flag; the military flag is the white flag with multiple fleur-de-lys, white being associated with royalty. But regardless of historical background, I prefer the new coat of arms on the stern, even though that one has no real life historical background at all.

 

[Grey Roger]

And... done.

"FastGalleon2", the original Fast War Galleon, with her new stern art:


"FastGalleon3", the new Fast Galleon, is interchangable with the original version in the shipyard:


You've already seen her from the front; here's the other end:


View from the deck. As well as transparent windows, the texture file originally had a big transparent area in that forward wall. Until I filled it and wiped the alpha map, this shot would have had a big hole through which you could see the sea - the ship would appear to be sinking. A similar hole would be visible if you stood on the forecastle and looked at the stern superstructure.


"FastGalleon4" is similarly interchangable with the original Fast War Galleon, and unless I'm definitively told otherwise, also with the Pirate version:


And this is what her rear looks like:


By the way, those descriptions in the shipyard shots aren't for the new ships, they're the corrected descriptions for the originals - it's "FastGalleon1" which "Bears ornate red and white decorations", and "FastGalleon2" which has "Hull painted in black and white".

As the ships require interface pictures, which need to go into one of the interface picture files, which are big, the file collection can't be uploaded to the forum, so you can get it from the FTP site instead:
http://piratesahoy.bowengames.com/potc/Grey Roger/FastGalleons.zip

The Fast Galleons are now effectively the early periods' equivalent to the corvettes of later periods - a couple of national war versions, a couple of international merchant versions, and a pirate version only available by quest or by repaint because you'll never find her for sale or in a random encounter on the high seas.

Incidentally, look who I met on the way to San Juan shipyard to get those screenshots:


Tasia Cobo used to be San Juan's resident "towngirl1"; she's now San Juan's resident "towngirl1_2".