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A new look at the Tool

Inez Dias

Inez Dias

Privateer
Storm Modder
<!--quoteo(post=265373:date=Jun 28 2008, 11:16 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 28 2008, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=265373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem:-
All imported models are recognized as characters in TOOL.
TOOLS' error report when importing as Ship etc...... (System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object).

------------------------------


Q2. How to export in vrml2 format . In detail.
Q2a. How to set texture path in vrml2 export options(what should the texture path be).

Problem:-
We always have 'missing texture tga.' in the exported vrml

------------------------------<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhm - I might be getting this wrong - but this looks to me like you're asking Mr Zaitsev questions about the TOOL ? Really I don't think they even know that exists.
(System.NullReferenceException would typically be an error generated by the .Net framework, which the TOOL has been made with, that's why I believe you're indeed talking about my program.)
Or can the russian mod tools indeed export vrml ? I suppose Maya can, with an adequate plugin, but I do know there are some troubles with importing that into the TOOL - I never really was sure what the differences between vrml2.0 and older versions are, I just made the TOOL's vrml importer so it works with Max-generated vrml.
- Just trying to clear up some confusion.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
Hi Inez,

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uhm - I might be getting this wrong - but this looks to me like you're asking Mr Zaitsev questions about the TOOL ? Really I don't think they even know that exists.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Akella didn't even know aout P.A.'s work on modding the game , but I'm sure some of the Seaward/ru team know of your program and how it works....AlexusB would most certainly.

Can't we interest you in doing some adjustments to the TOOL while your about ?... Please <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> Can't get the animations to work right ...thats a biggy problem. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
damski.
 
INEZ? are you back <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> Pieter will love this.

And yes the Russians KNOW your tool, I check their forum everyday for mods. And in the mod helping thread they keep talking about TOOL. They also use it too bring characters ingame.
 
<!--quoteo(post=268546:date=Jul 12 2008, 04:50 AM:name=damski62)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (damski62 @ Jul 12 2008, 04:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=268546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can't we interest you in doing some adjustments to the TOOL while your about ?... Please <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> Can't get the animations to work right ...thats a biggy problem. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
Well I'd not exactly say I'm back - real life leaves me very little time. But indeed "while I'm at it" - what precisely is the problem with animations ?
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Inez,

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what precisely is the problem with animations ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The problem with the animation is.......I think Sir Christopher Mings could explain it all better, as he's been experimenting quite a lot with character models lately,but ,the problem is that the animation data for the arms 'below the elbow' and the 'hands' dissapears & never works again after the raise arms feature is used.


Hope I'm not getting too cheeky here <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />:

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just made the TOOL's vrml importer so it works with Max-generated vrml.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any chance of maybe looking at a Maya plugin/patch for Tool <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

damski

@Thomas

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thomas the Terror Posted Jul 11 2008, 08:09 PM
Nice, really good work Damski<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cheers Thomas, but.....I think the credit should go to Peter Willemoes for this... without his input we wouldn't be in the position of being able to ask any questions. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
INEZ! How very nice to see you again! How have you been doing? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

If you could try and do some slight modifications of the TOOL, that'd be grand. We keep hitting certain problems, such as being unable to open certain GMs (Manowar, Oxbay Port) and we have no idea why. Also the reverse lighting issue remains a problem with all ships that are modified in an external program (3D Studio MAX or otherwise) and exported with your TOOL being lighted on the wrong side. It seems that somehow the entire ship is actually mirrored, but the lighting isn't, which is really weird. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=268634:date=Jul 13 2008, 11:15 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jul 13 2008, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=268634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->INEZ! How very nice to see you again! How have you been doing? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not too well, actually...but struggling.
Anyway, about the animations:
The lower arms and hands should be ok, or if not maybe tell me which model that goes wrong with. As for the fingers, yes, that's true: the way the TOOL figures out which bone (which is needed for animations) each vertex (point) in the model belongs to is much cruder than what a real modeler program like Max and Maya do: it basically looks at the position, like "what's left of the elbow on the left arm must be the left hand", or "what's above the neck must be the head". I really am unable to program something like max does for that. The feature in the TOOL is only meant as a last resort for models that have no bone numbers at all (like models made from scratch) - if you use POTC stock models and epxort them to vrml you should be able to modify them (within certain limits) and keeps the bone assignment intact. (VRML does not know about bone numbers, but I code them into the last two digits of the texture coordinates - so while retexturing is ok you would break the information by unwrapping the model anew - which you usually would anyway do only for a model that doesn't have texture coordinates.) Just don't use the "compute bone numbers" feature in the TOOL for such models.
I've long thought about how to be able to assign bones in a modeler and not lose them when recoverting to gm.
If going via vrml we might use color - like the artist assigns a different color to each finger and the tool then knows it's each a different bone (actually some modeler programs (Blender is the one I know) do it in a similar way, called "weight painting"). I once tried to assign colors like that in max but found it very difficult. However if you think you can do that - give each body part a different color - I could change the TOOL to read that as bone numbers.
Best would be vertex colors (as opposed to per-triangle-colors), because bone numbers are also per vertex. However I'm not sure if vertex colors export to vrml.
Another way to go might be to write an exporter that goes straight to gm. But for Maya we already have a plugin, so what's wrong with that? For Max, I must admit I found the writing of plugins extremly difficult. I did have one for Blender almost done, but lost that when my laptop was stolen and subsequently my external harddrive crashed. Might however try to recreate that. Then we could import whatever format a model is in (as long as it supports animation and Blender has a plugin for it - fbx or collada comes to mind) into Blender and from there export to gm. Anyone interested in that might give a holler - I'm not really sure what tools people use and what would therefore be useful in terms of import/export.
Is Sir Christopher Mings still around ? He sent me some models a while ago which were just great, so I really would like to discuss things with him, too.
At the Manowar and Oxbay port I will look, I still haven't the gm format completely figured out, so probably I'm doing something wrong that pops up only with certain models. Might take a little while, though.
The wrong lighting on ships I have myself never noticed, could anyone give me a screenshot? Does it happen with all models? I do remember with some models I had to reverse the normals in order to get the backface culling right, but that would indeed affect lighting - so maybe I have to invert the vertex ordering instead of the normal or vice versa. Will look into that, too.

About looking into the Maya vrml plugin I have no chance because I don't have Maya. If anyone sends me a model exported from Maya that the TOOL can't read, though, I might figure out what functionality needs to be added (did that for Alan Smithee at some point, but that was just for one model).
Nothing promised, but I'll try to help ni what little time I have. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
Sir Christopher Mings is active again and is putting your TOOL to good use by making a whole bunch of interesting character modifications. You can probably reach him through PM. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

As for the reversed lighting: it seems to happen to any model that is converted from VRML to GM, so that basically means it applies to all completely new and modified models. I'll make a screenshot tomorrow.

Thanks a lot for your help. And I'm sorry to hear you're struggling right now. I wished there was something I could do. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
Only now I saw you had explained about the ship problems in a PM already in November. So here are some more comments on that:
Re the lighting I'll look at Kazeite's Pearl as you suggest - that answers my question for an example.
Besides that you mention collision detection: About that I'm not sure - I always thought the second set of geometry data (which Maya generates when you have the checkbox "BSP" checked and which are only present in ships) plus some unidentified numbers in the model files might be collision data (BSP would be binary space partition and that can indeed be used for collision). So how did you go about reusing it from anyother ship? I remember vaguely the TOOL might have something along the lines but that would be experimental at best. Has anyone used that and if so with what result? Could you verify it's indeed collision data ?
 
Hi Inez,
This is the info we were given regarding GM export with Maya:-


Dir Maya - Maya plug-ins.
GrassGenerator.exe - Tool for convert grass on land location. The grass is necessary for unloading from Maya with collisions!
PatchCreator.exe - Tool for convert wolking patch on land location.

Dir Maya5.0 - Attention. Files on this directore must copy into the Maya 5.0 (or Maya 5.1). Copy files from bin to bin directory Maya. Copy files from scripts to scripts directory Maya.

How to include plug-ins in Maya.
Window->Settings/Preferences->Plug-in Manager. Set the SD2AniExport.mll and SD2GeoExport.mll.

How export .gm file from Maya.
File->Export Selection. Press Options. Set Build BSP for export with collisions. Choose Product and press Export selection. Set path to .gm file and call it. Press Export.

Haven't had any real success with it so far though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />

damski.
 
<!--quoteo(post=269043:date=Jul 14 2008, 06:57 AM:name=Inez Dias)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inez Dias @ Jul 14 2008, 06:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Besides that you mention collision detection: About that I'm not sure - I always thought the second set of geometry data (which Maya generates when you have the checkbox "BSP" checked and which are only present in ships) plus some unidentified numbers in the model files might be collision data (BSP would be binary space partition and that can indeed be used for collision).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think you're right. In any case damski's reply proves that indeed the "BSP" checkbox is required for the collision information. Also do you have any idea for the path file used for the 1st person camera mode on ships? That's a seperate GM file of the deck only, but that file isn't actually displayed. I think the game might just use it's "BSP" data.

<!--quoteo(post=269043:date=Jul 14 2008, 06:57 AM:name=Inez Dias)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inez Dias @ Jul 14 2008, 06:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=269043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So how did you go about reusing it from anyother ship? I remember vaguely the TOOL might have something along the lines but that would be experimental at best. Has anyone used that and if so with what result? Could you verify it's indeed collision data ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you import a VRML file with your TOOL, it asks you from which model to copy the collision data. If you press cancel, it should be generated by the program, but I don't think that works. So instead we just selected a ship GM file that has a sort-of similar size. This doesn't generate any real errors, but does make for weird effects, such as the 1st person mode camera moving through the ship or floating above it. Also when you would use a Manowar's collision data for a Tartane, that would make for really silly effects as well.
 
Reverse light bug

<img src="http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/22671f80ce/1108990.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> This is Packet brig from potc that i have moved to AOP.
In AOP ships have night riding lights, so reverse light bug is
easy to see. If you look at the boat in stern of the ship
you see that inside of the boat is in shadow but outside of the boat
is lighted, = everything that shoud have a light is in shadow.
also everything that shoud be in shadow has light. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
But THANKS for TOOL with or without the reverse light bug
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> P.S blender plugin would be nice.
In AOP men walk like pinguings can you change that
with tool?? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
Thanks for the screen shot - and wow, even with the wrong lighting, ships with light do look gorgeous.

Re another of the questions above: someone said the tool recognizes everything as characters -
well that's indeed the default but upon digging out the TOOL again I noticed there is a checkbox for non-characters) (ship/item/location) - you do have noticed that, right ? It should be checked by the user when importing something that's not a character from vrml.

I'm working on the reverseved lighting thing, not done yet though, because it took me a little while to get the modding evironment set up again and find where everything is.

And Captain Hawk, about the men walking like penguins I doubt I can do anything - you mean in the stock game or when importing POTC characters into AOP ? (Didn't even know that was possible - have to get AOP ASAP). If it's indeed with imported characters we're lucky it works at all - might be the size is different ? Can you open AOP characters in the TOOL (I thought AOP is starforced, too, though?)
Would be interesting to see how the skeleton matches with AOP characters. Does AOP have .an files ? What I would suggest, if it can be done, is load an AOP .an file (which contains the skeleton) and then a POTC character into the TOOL, check the "display skeleton" checkbox and look if the joints are all in the right places.
Is the script code for AOP moddable, too? If so, have you tried using POTC.an files with POTC characters ? (Sorry for asking such basic questions about AOP - it's probably all in the AOP modding forums, and I will read those eventually, but after a long absence it takes just too much time to read all the threads.)

Pieter, that's quite interesting about the collision data - I never knew it had an effect at all because I never used first person view on the ships.

Ah and one request to the moderators (Pieter ?) Could these last posts of this thread be moved to the POTC modding forum ? Or else I'll just start a new thread there.
 
Hello <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
"In AOP men walk like pinguings" It is in stock AOP game, I use my character
allways in run mode because of that. AOP has update 1.5. that has game files opened like in potc.
Akella has released some new Tools and you can get password to use them from Peter. PM him.
I tried ship export but it did not work with maya 5. in readme it says that you must use maya 4 or 4.5 .
here is google translation
Exported objects:
- polygonal mesh.

At the facility should be appointed material:
- Phong
- Lamber
Incadescene greater than zero for materials, light emitting energy. Value - energy density per unit area.
cosPow asks directions departure photons scatter relatively normal verteksov triangle.

The object must contain mapping, to each UVSet 'should be linked with its own texture.
- map1 (necessarily) - the base texture.
- bump (optional) color pixels that texture will be added to colour coded pixels basic texture.
- if additional mapping do not need your UVSet, can be used in the field Bump Mapping editor of May.

Additionally, mapping takes into account place2dTexture - the transformation of texture coordinates:
Repeat UV - tiling texture coordinates,
Offset - offset mapping,
Rotate UV - turn texture coordinates;
all other options in place2dTexture not taken into account.


Locator in the scene - an indication that everything attached to it unload in a separate file geometry.
Other locators, to which is attached geometry, create a separate file - a tool for education hierarchy.

Triangles are the object VertexColor. In Mae originally vertexColor for verteksa not defined, in which case he discharged with the value ARGB = 255127127127. Color verteksa - multiplier components diffuse material. When unloading facilities with painted vertexColor 's facility must be triangulated before unloading.

For unloading of geometry should be allocated locator, which pegged the facility. For locators without unloading their geometry also need to allocate.

The object can not be discharged if the material is not appointed texture.
Material with two textures can not be put to an object with one mapping.
In facility can not be combined with one triangle and two UVSet 's.

When unloading geometry parallel atg-created files, which are written in error and found information about exported objects.

ConvertorTX.exe - Texture convertor from .tga to .tga.tx.
gm_view.exe - Models viwer for .gm.
potcShips1.rar - Initial files for sloop and frigate.
SailorTool.rar - Tool for set the sailor's path on the ships.

Dir Maya - Maya plug-ins.
GrassGenerator.exe - Tool for convert grass on land location. The grass is necessary for unloading from Maya with collisions!
PatchCreator.exe - Tool for convert wolking patch on land location.

Dir Maya5.0 - Attention. Files on this directore must copy into the Maya 5.0 (or Maya 5.1). Copy files from bin to bin directory Maya. Copy files from scripts to scripts directory Maya.

How to include plug-ins in Maya.
Window->Settings/Preferences->Plug-in Manager. Set the SD2AniExport.mll and SD2GeoExport.mll.

How export .gm file from Maya.
File->Export Selection. Press Options. Set Build BSP for export with collisions. Choose Product and press Export selection. Set path to .gm file and call it. Press Export.


I think now it is necessary to understand that you have received. I am ready to answer your questions in process of their occurrence.




Plugin consists of 3 - x parts.
2 of them in May-independent:
export.dll need to copy in a folder AW \ Maya4.? \ bin \
SD2GeoExportMel.mel need to copy in a folder AW \ Maya4.? \ Scripts \ others \

This part of the plug depends on the version Maya and Mai exists for 4.0 and 4.5
SD2GeoExport.mll need to copy in a folder AW \ Maya4.? \ Bin \ plugins \

It is "SD2GeoExport.mll" that you need to use to export ships I think. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />
 
Hello <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
"Is the script code for AOP moddable, too? If so, have you tried using POTC.an files with POTC characters".
I tried to use potc an files with AOP but results were not good. I am not wery good with "bone animation".
In AOP there is man.an and also in POTC. I tried to use POTC man an in AOP but it looked all wrong. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
 
Hi,
That plugin does actualy work... I have managed to export one of the ship examples they gave us and a simple model which I made myself , albeit ..the simple model was a bit messed up ..only because I don't know how to label stuff properly and what locators to include for exporting - or not include .

I think it's down to the preference settings in Maya for each model type as well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> .

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
damski.
 
Hello <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
"That plugin does actualy work... I have managed to export one of the ship examples they gave us" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
THX for that info PLEASE can you give instructions how you did export one of the ship examples. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/buds.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":drunk" border="0" alt="buds.gif" />
 
I managed to export one of the example ships as well. That wasn't actually all that hard. Doing ANOTHER ship though is another story. Also the locators weren't exported with the ship either. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

We have put in AoP characters into PotC by making the AoP characters use their own AoP animation file. I think the opposite is possible as well, because I have seen many PotC characters in Russian mods for AoP. Also AoP's PROGRAM folder IS opened up in one of the latest updates. Thankfully.

I don't think the AoP and PotC skeletons match really, because the AoP ones have their arms raised by default and the PotC ones have them lowered. Still Sir Christopher Mings managed to make the AoP Beatrice model use the PotC animation, which enabled her to swim. However, this removed the proper sidestep animation that AoP characters do have. He did this with an external modeling program and using the TOOL, but I don't know exactly how he did it.
 
would be nice to have the CoaS animation and apply it to the POTC characters, then we would have a proper animation for muskets!
 
Very Important!!

TOOL is unable to open certain GM like the Manowar.

But thanks for the TOOL, i´ve spend much time with it.
 
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