3D file formats

[Inez Dias]

It’s been discussed some in the “new character” thread how to get models from POTC into modeller programs (such as Max, Maya, C4D etc.) and back – so far only doable with either the Maya Plugins or the tool, and what’s really needed is a file format that would enable us to export/import models including bones, skeletons and animations.

So far I’ve heard about
- Lightwave lwo (the most promising candidate, but I couldn’t find out how it handles bones).
- Doom md5 (was told it could do bones, but I really know nothing about it)
- X (same, should be able to do all we need, but I don’t know how)
- some selfmade or existing XML-based format (Lass did you say there was an XML format C4D could read or write?)
- obj has also been much discussed, and would be doable for meshes, but AFAIK it can’t handle bones
- besides I’ve been a long time ago working on a Milkshape plugin, but it also can so far only do meshes. I think (though not sure) Milkshape can handle bones, but again don’t know how.
- and lastly, I think it would also be possible to make an exporter for GMax – however only plaintext formats.

Anyone know about any of these formats/programs? Any suggestions what would be best ?

 

[High Sea Lass]

Not sure if these pages help, but in case they do, here are a couple:

<a href="http://www.okino.com/conv/skinning.htm&e=9838" target="_blank">http://www.okino.com/conv/skinning.htm&e=9838</a>
<a href="http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/geomformats/directx/&e=9838" target="_blank">http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/geom...directx/&e=9838</a>
<a href="http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/xfilepc/page2.asp" target="_blank">http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programmi...ilepc/page2.asp</a>

Mind you, as I am not into these thigns that much I have no clue how vital or relevant they are, or if it is old news... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

I just thought I would share what I found from a quick peek online.

 

[NathanKell]

Lass, can you export a boned and rigged character in C4D XML format?
Not, heh, that you necessarily have one lying around--but a simple four-bone skeleton and a bunch of boxes should do. Just so we can see how that format handles bones and character-rigging (aka binding).
Ah, I see as of <a href="http://www.tinrocket.com/code/coffee/00139/" target="_blank">http://www.tinrocket.com/code/coffee/00139/</a> that apparently C4D XML is probably not too helpful (no docs, it says), but that link also has a replacement, documented, XML plugin.
Lass, will that plugin work for you? Which version of C4D do you have?

Inez: The plugin linked on there--apparenetly C4D plugins are just source--scripts rather than compiled plugs. So you can probably custom-tailor that XML plugin to export whatever you want. In fact, reading a bit of the source, that seems to be what it's designed for per the comments.

Then, for max, you may find skinLift helpful (I found it via scriptspot): <a href="http://www.bretkroll.com/" target="_blank">http://www.bretkroll.com/</a> and go to scripts->skinLift.

Edit: Err, it says max 5+. Dunno how helpful it'll be at all, then...

 

[High Sea Lass]

<!--QuoteBegin-NathanKell+Jun 26 2005, 02:55 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NathanKell @ Jun 26 2005, 02:55 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lass, can you export a boned and rigged character in C4D XML format?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, aye, skipper! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />

"Arr, brings out me bones, anh send foh dat Doctor Fronkensteen! We gots us a matey ta rig! Hardy har har! Arr."

<!--QuoteBegin-NathanKell+Jun 26 2005, 02:55 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NathanKell @ Jun 26 2005, 02:55 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lass, will that plugin work for you? Which version of C4D do you have?<div align="right">[snapback]118507[/snapback]</div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, sure will. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> Me gots version 8, me do. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[NathanKell]

Thanks. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Ah, OK, so that plug should work. Can you export in that plug's format too, to see if the bone data comes out?

OT question: When you select a vertex in C4D, does it tell you which it is? (i.e. "Vertex 387 selected")
If so, and you have the patience, you can manually change the bone number of vertices...(handy for making gloves, probably?)
Did I say already this in mail? I can't remember.
Actually, you needn't have even that, just remembered what I was going to (and possibly did) send in mail.
Take the vertex that you want to be linked to a different bone. Edit the UV position so it only uses the first digit or two (i.e. 0.670000, 0.790000). Then export to WRL, find the UV that has those positions (you do the above so you can find it easily), and assign the correct bone number at the end of the coords.

 

[High Sea Lass]

Still need to try the bone-thingie, but I will do an export with both. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

Should be able to do something today, I hope. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />


<b>C4D:</b> No, I get to see no vertex number at all.

As for whether I can edit those last numers of vertices I don't think so - it tend to be, say,
X: -0.019
Y: 1.708
Z: -0.005

with the optional unit displayed behind it - which, interestingly enough, when imported at 1:1 scale, it makes Affrica, with afro included, 1.708 metres tall, heh. Seems they made them almost in scale, eh? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Of course, to be able to work with them, I tend to scale up on import by a factor of 100, which also shows more of the data (170.808 instead of 1.708 for instance, etc).

Ahem, anyway... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Not sure how to do all this... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /> I am just a happy-go-lucky amatuer, after all!



On another note, C4D can export animation with VRML (.wrl)... Not that I have tried. Just thought I would mention it. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[Inez Dias]

<!--QuoteBegin-High Sea Lass+Jun 27 2005, 01:06 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(High Sea Lass @ Jun 27 2005, 01:06 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On another note, C4D can export animation with VRML (.wrl)...  Not that I have tried.  Just thought I would mention it.  <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
<div align="right">[snapback]119127[/snapback]</div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would love to see that ...

 

[High Sea Lass]

I will try to make something simple that can be compared to the XML. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

 

[NathanKell]

Lass: Ah, I mean edit the UVs of the vertex. Can you select a UV vertex and tell it exactly the position it should be in, or can you only move it? (i.e. in max you can select one and type 0.5 in U and 0.5 in V and it goes there).
So then, if you wanted to change a vertex's bone assignment, you would:
Find the UV vertex that corresponds to the vertex you want changed
Set its UVs to where you want it to be, but with all but the first place zero (i.e. 0.5, 0.7; or whatever.).
Export to WRL
Open in (text editor) and find that UV, manually add desired bone number.

 

[High Sea Lass]

Oh. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Ah. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

Heh. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />


Sure, I can either move them with this method, that method or type it in. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

Mind you, I have no clue as to what bone number goes where! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

 

[NathanKell]

Me neither. I just do concepts. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

 

[CatalinaThePirate]

<!--QuoteBegin-NathanKell+Jun 27 2005, 01:58 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NathanKell @ Jun 27 2005, 01:58 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Me neither. I just do concepts. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
<div align="right">[snapback]119389[/snapback]</div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> CONCEPTS! YES! THAT is what I do! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

(nevermind) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />

 

[High Sea Lass]

Oh...

So, if I grasp the concept... ...will I get slapped? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />


<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>Oh, I am in a silly mood today!</i></span>

 

[CatalinaThePirate]

<snicker!> Depends on whether the concept will accept being grasped, I suppose! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Sillyness is my way of life! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

 

[High Sea Lass]

Yes, there is no way as the silly way!

"Load guns with balls, aye, aye, captain" always makes me chuckle as well! Poor sailors! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

 

[Petros]

<!--QuoteBegin-High Sea Lass+Jun 28 2005, 04:30 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(High Sea Lass @ Jun 28 2005, 04:30 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh...

So, if I grasp the concept...  ...will I get slapped?  <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><i>Oh, I am in a silly mood today!</i></span>
<div align="right">[snapback]119490[/snapback]</div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That explains it! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

I be grasp'n concepts all me life! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":slap" border="0" alt="slap.gif" />

 

[High Sea Lass]

Since I feel so helpful today, let me help you, Pet!

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":slap" border="0" alt="slap.gif" />

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

 

[High Sea Lass]

Here's a file with various formats, from C4D, with bones...

Mind you, I doubt that the plug-in did much. Or that the WRL with animation actually did export it... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Anyway, have a look and see what is what where! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=")" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />


[attachment=63:attachment]

 

[NathanKell]

Thanks!

 

[High Sea Lass]

Ye're welcome, bucko! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />