• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Released 20 gun privateer schooner

yea, i mean the game isnt sophisticated enough to take the cargo load into account for each voyage. the waterline on the president is at about the same place as it is on the original draught for alll the constitution class frigates (using humphrey 's plan) so I think its a good level. I just used the president because it was easier to see the line itself. The 44s have plenty of freeboard I think, and when compared to the Bellona the guns are higher than the bellona's lowest battery, but lowerer than her second tier of guns, just about where the deck itself is between the two rows of gunports. my scaling of the constitution also puts the guns signifigantly higher above the water than they are currently :onya
 
Maybe that could be something for the coders to fix at some point. In theory it shouldn't be too hard to decrease the rate of change in the water line. (I think)
As long as it's accurate, I agree with you 100%.
 
Captain Armstrong said:
maybe the deck from the movie surprise could be pasted over the current deck on the texture file?
Click to expand...
Well I did something similar to RN_BattleFrigate and FR_BattleFrigate, but the results were still stretched a bit too much.
I reckon the deck UVs need remapping onto a different texture; probably desk.tga, especially since the new ship's wheel will use that file.

Post Captain said:
With standard provisions, the constitution should probably have the waterline at the top of the red paint, or a little bit above.

and an afterthought: when empty the model seems to be the same as the present Constitution when both are without stores. The stores might just have a little bit more drastic of an effect on the waterline than is realistic.
Click to expand...
To give you an idea, the model's physical waterline is where the red paint meets the black paint, but the ship's default code attributes lower that waterline very slightly.
I'm sure the code which changes the waterline based on cargo load can be adjusted somewhere; I'll need to have a look around for it...
Perhaps the change in waterline was exaggerated slightly to make the effect more noticeable at first. :shrug

Captain Armstrong said:
yea, i mean the game isnt sophisticated enough to take the cargo load into account for each voyage.
Click to expand...
Actually it is; see above. That feature has been in the Build Mod for a while, now. ;)
 
Really? thats cool, I never notced that, ill have to watch for it now. :keith Ill probably use the same deck texture as on the prince with the slightly lighter color then. :onya
 
Finished the uv mapping and textures, here are a few pics of everything combined:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6814525967/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6814526191/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6814526075/in/photostream
The next step is gm export right? ill take a look through inzanes tutorial and see how far I can get :keith
 
She looks great mate!
me.gif
 
Captain Armstrong said:
Finished the uv mapping and textures, here are a few pics of everything combined:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6814525967/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6814526191/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/6814526075/in/photostream
The next step is gm export right? ill take a look through inzanes tutorial and see how far I can get :keith
Click to expand...

Besides some insignificant nitpicky issues, you did a beautiful job.

Edit: I've spotted a very major rigging error on the mainmast, but it should only involve removing some standing rigging to fix; I'll first consult the set of plans I have to confirm. (too late to do it tonight)
 
Update:
Well, now that I've confirmed, I might as well go ahead.
On the mainmast, there is only one cross tree, where the mainmast proper and maintopmast meet. The maintopmast shrouds end just about six inches to one foot above the lower square yard, when the sails are set, as is permanent in the game. There isn't a second cross tree because there is no main t'gallant mast.
On the foremast, the fore t'gallant mast shrouds (the uppermost shrouds) should end about six inches to a foot above the t'gallant yard, not above the royal yard.
The reason for this is that when sails are furled, (not in game, but in real life) the yards are lowered to their resting positions (the courses, however,stay where they are). When the yards are fully lowered, they rest rright above the shrouds under them in the case of the royals, or above the intersection of two mast segments.

Also, for that same reason, the topmasts and t'gallant masts were always unpainted, and were lubricated with slush. (refined cow's fat in the good old days, Vaseline now)

If you eliminated the uppermost crosstrees on the mainmast, it would be rigged correctly. The t'gallant mast shrouds on the fore should end similarly to where the topmast shrouds on the main end in relation to the yards. And now for the nitpicking: You could also use a dark, smoothed out wood texture on the topmasts and t'gallant masts as well, the lower masts are perfect. I've never encountered or heard of an exception to the paint rule.

Sorry if I sound like an ass; that's not my intention. :cheeky

Edit: if that was a little nebulous, I have some diagrams I drew up showing the shrouds more clearly than the plans you can find online. I could always upload that if you need clarification.
 
hmm, looking at the sailplan of the prince, you might be right. its hard to tell exactly where the shrouds end though. I dont remember making any alterations from the original sailplan, but i suppose its possible seeing as it was so long ago. :shrug So are you saying I should delete the uppermost set of shrouds and crosstrees on the mainmast, and move the upermost set on the foremast so they end just above the tgallant yard? I dont mind deleting that much, but to be honest moving around shrouds and ratlines are by far my least favorite part of making a ship, its sooo boring. :modding I really just want to get this ship ingame at this point so I can get to my other ones and then finally start making new ones again, and otherwise the ship is ready for export. could it be excuseable since the yards cant actually be lowered ingame? the constitution has similar masts (At least ingame) and I would have to redo the texturing for the topmasts to make them wood colored rather than black. I will for sure go with wood rather than black on all my future ships.
 
Yep, you got it. leaving the foremast alone would be excusable, although it wouldn't represent the original vessel's rigging. Again, this is one of those "didn't happen" situations where all conventional rigging followed the universal pattern, with no exceptions. Just deleting on the main will leave that particular mast perfectly rigged.

Edit: the main topmast shrouds might fit the fore t'gallant mast fairly well, although I have no idea how copy/paste might work.
 
I have changed the rigging on every ship I have ported to POTC so far and no one has complained. Don't frustrate yourself. :cheers
 
And don't take my complaining the wrong way- I'm just trying to make the game as accurate as I can.
 
No worries! :) so I'm trying to get the ship exported, and inzanes tutorial seems to make the locators in maya, which apperently dont actually export. so I just need to name each part as in the tutorial and export the files to .gm using the plug-in? (which I have yet to install i think) Is there anything else that I need to do before exporting?

And also, Armada, how would you like the Constitution files? I have the masts scaled, but its all in one file and i dont know which parts are which because the masts and yards were moved from there original position on the ship to the center of the file so theyre inside the hull at the moment. Any ideas on how I can tell what yards go to what masts and such?
 
Captain Armstrong said:
so I'm trying to get the ship exported, and inzanes tutorial seems to make the locators in maya, which apperently dont actually export. so I just need to name each part as in the tutorial and export the files to .gm using the plug-in? (which I have yet to install i think) Is there anything else that I need to do before exporting?
Click to expand...
Have you made a path model, yet? That's the blank version of the deck which only has polygons where the player should be able to walk.
Make sure, whether you've made one or not, that the edges don't go right up to the sides of the hull (or any other obstacles); you need to leave a gap (about 0.5 units) otherwise the player can see through the obstacles.
That's all I can think you'll need before organising everything for the export process.
By the way, the locators supposedly can export with the model if you use Iron Roger's advice, and not Inzane's. I'll explain that when you're ready for it.

Captain Armstrong said:
And also, Armada, how would you like the Constitution files? I have the masts scaled, but its all in one file and i dont know which parts are which because the masts and yards were moved from there original position on the ship to the center of the file so theyre inside the hull at the moment. Any ideas on how I can tell what yards go to what masts and such?
Click to expand...
Um, do you know which order you imported the files? I think they should all line up in that order in the Hypergraph window, so you can tell what's what.
If you can't sort them out, then don't worry; I'll find a way to organise them.
Anyway, you'll need to import and scale the path file before sending me the rest. I'll take the files however you've arranged them.
 
Armada said:
Have you made a path model, yet? That's the blank version of the deck which only has polygons where the player should be able to walk.
Make sure, whether you've made one or not, that the edges don't go right up to the sides of the hull (or any other obstacles); you need to leave a gap (about 0.5 units) otherwise the player can see through the obstacles.
That's all I can think you'll need before organising everything for the export process.
By the way, the locators supposedly can export with the model if you use Iron Roger's advice, and not Inzane's. I'll explain that when you're ready for it.
Click to expand...
ah I have to do that still, and do the normals/ textures need to be reversed or changed? somehow I thought they did or they wont show up ingame or something :shrug

Armada said:
Um, do you know which order you imported the files? I think they should all line up in that order in the Hypergraph window, so you can tell what's what.
If you can't sort them out, then don't worry; I'll find a way to organise them.
Anyway, you'll need to import and scale the path file before sending me the rest. I'll take the files however you've arranged them.
Click to expand...
Hmm im afraid not, But I can send you the file. I had already scaled the path with the rest; I just forgot to mention it. :onya I modified the constitution deck texture so the planking looks lighter and better( I borrowed from Dek3.tga) so here is that file
ftp://potc@pyratesahoy.com@ftp.pyratesahoy.com/Capt%20Armstrong/deck_constitution_new.tga
the only other textures that I changed are inzanegun1 for all cannons and carronades, and desk.tga for the wheel
Here is the link for the improved Constitution model :doff
ftp://potc@pyratesahoy.com@ftp.pyratesahoy.com/Capt%20Armstrong/ship%20models/Improved%20USS%20Constitution/improved_us_constitution.mb

I just started on the path for the prince, and booleans dont seem to work for me, it just deletes both objects. any suggestions on how to get around this? :shrug
 
Captain Armstrong said:
ah I have to do that still, and do the normals/ textures need to be reversed or changed? somehow I thought they did or they wont show up ingame or something :shrug
Click to expand...
It's either the normals should be reversed OR the path should use a blank alpha texture.
Both will work to ensure the path is not visible, but I'd recommend the blank texture (path.tga), personally.

Captain Armstrong said:
I just started on the path for the prince, and booleans dont seem to work for me, it just deletes both objects. any suggestions on how to get around this? :shrug
Click to expand...
I'd just make the path from scratch, if I were you. The shape is significantly different because of having to avoid all the cannons, masts, and other details.
Maybe start with a large plane with plenty of subdivisions, shape it to fit the deck, and cut out the bits you don't need.

Thanks for the Constitution files. I'll start organising them soon. :keith
 
Any thoughts on the ingame speed and other traits yet? I may have a few suggestions based upon the vessel's history.
 
Ok, ill assign the blank texture to the path when I finish it, I was actually using copies of the carronedes and boxes to cover gratings and masts to try and make it. How can I cut it if booleans dont work? And your welcome, I wouldnt mind changing a few stats for Constitution(Namely downgrading the max caliber from 32 pdrs to 24 pdrs) and changing the battle sail set if at all possible. Could you fix her spanker too whenever you get the new version exported? I also think it would be good to give the generic united states class frigate windows like on the Endymion and Acheron, if its not too much trouble. :keith
- and just to clarify, this revised model should be used for all the constitution based ships :onya

@postcaptain
We arent really at that stage yet, so I havent thought about it in detail, but I would think she should be the fastest fore and aft rigged vessel in game (excluding maybe the bermuda sloop, which is unrealistically fast I think) Beyond that I was thinking she would handle similarly to other schooners, do you have a sailing report or some more detailed Ideas on this?
 
In my opinion:

I definitely agree with the speed. It should also have a very good point of sail, probably equal to or slightly better than the game's schooners. The gigantic mains'l and Baltimore clipper hull would have given it very good windward performance. For the maneuverability and hold capacity, we should look at the schooner USS Enterprise, and scale the values to reflect the difference in size between the two vessels. The hold should be straightforward: If the Prince is, let's say, 1.3 times larger than the Enterprise by deck length, multiply the capacity by 1.3. If you get them side by side, you should be able to eyeball it well enough.

Since the game will never be as sophisticated as real life, I would suggest making the Prince just as maneuverable as the Enterprise, since its large sail area would have expedited maneuvering. The square sails wouldn't have affected its ability to tack much, since they are mostly rigged on the foremast. I've seen brigantines like the Irving and Exy Johnson tack even more quickly than the schooners they were surrounded by at the time. (I didn't actually see the tack happen. I looked down to coil a line, and when I looked up half a minute later, one was going the in the opposite direction.) It is after all, closer to a brigantine, than a schooner. (the actual name of the rig was simply "Hermaphrodite Brig") Also the beautifully clean run aft would have reduced some of the pressure on the helm, improving handling. If it leans to a silly extent while making a sharp turn, though, it might be a good idea to reduce maneuverability slightly.

The reason I'm comparing the Prince and Enterprise is that they had similar hulls in real life, and both were known for their exceptional sailing characteristics until the Enterprise received a squat little overbuilt brig's rig after the War of 1812. (Another reason to avoid overrigging. Too much top hamper dramatically reduced the speed of formerly fast vessels. I can name several historic examples of that happening. This was generally a problem with the navies after the Napoleonic Era, when they made everything three times as strong, and therefore three times as bulky, as they needed to be.)

Finally, the guns should be somewhere between 12 and 24 pounds, to account for the extra damage done by the carronades, sadly missing in the game. (they could replace culverines, but that would probably take a lot of work)

Edit: oh, and I wouldn't reccomend reducing the caliber of the Contituution's guns, since most ships in the game have guns that are too heavy. And something I neglected to mention earlier: the masts propper (lower spar on the mast, ending at the tops) should be painted on square rigged masts, and some fore and aft masts. I've seen them black, white, and light brown (on the Surprise), similar to ochre, but a bit more brownish.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top