• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

The truth about the Perfect Pirate Ship: & what loot's in the Hold

modernknight1

modernknight1

Field Marshall of Hot Tubs
Staff member
Storm Modder
Article deleted because of Post Captain's dominance of the Pirates Ahoy! site
 

Attachments

  • Charles Galley - Van de Velde.jpg
    Charles Galley - Van de Velde.jpg
    1,004.1 KB · Views: 328
  • Robert's Ranger.jpg
    Robert's Ranger.jpg
    263.4 KB · Views: 110
Last edited:
Nice one, mate! Interesting read for sure. :cheers

When it comes to adding all these characters into a game, I figure they should actually have their personalities too.
Sid Meier's Pirates! has them, but basically only in name.
 
Fascinating article, MK! Admittedly, a lot of this information surprised me, especially Bellamy's fleet size. :shock
With so many other pirates having such incredible lives, it sort of makes Blackbeard seem unworthy of all the mainstream attention.
 
Good reading! I learned more again. I was confusing Blackbeard and Black Sam and the Whydah. It looks like the closest ship we have to the Whydah is La Licorne in POTC. Or is that one is too big, then the NL_Pinnace in POTC or the midden pinnacschip(?) in ERAS.
TheWhy4.jpg
 
I once heard a historian say: History mainly remembers the losers when it comes to pirates. The real successful ones are those youve never heard of, who retired with their names under the radar with all their winnings.
 
Most pirates started with small vessels like brigs, sloops, schooners like Calico Jack, Stede Bonnet, Charles Vane, Edward England, Blackbeard(Edward Theach-Thatch) etc. But only small nuber of them captured bigger vessels.

P.S Sorry For My English
 
I linked to this story on our Facebook profile too and it is doing VERY well.
Often, hardly anybody Likes the various posts and when people do, it may only be 1-2.
You managed 7 already in quite a short space of time. Looks like you did something right! :onya
 
Captain.Sparrow said:
Most pirates started with small vessels like brigs, sloops, schooners like Calico Jack, Stede Bonnet, Charles Vane, Edward England, Blackbeard(Edward Theach-Thatch) etc. But only small nuber of them captured bigger vessels.

P.S Sorry For My English
Click to expand...

Let's rephrase your statement mate: "Most pirates (OPERATING OUT OF NASSAU AND NEW PROVIDENCE DURING THE LAST TWO DECADES OF THE AGE OF PIRACY) started with small vessels like brigs, sloops, schooners like Calico Jack, Stede Bonnet, Charles Vane, Edward England, Blackbeard(Edward Theach-Thatch) etc. But only small nuber of them captured bigger vessels."

Now your statement is correct.

Read my fourth paragraph below. Every pirate you just mentioned was from that time and area - as I clearly spelled out. As for the majority of the 17th century you are very wrong. Which was the purpose for writing this article. I wanted to debunk the common misconception you just stated. The pirates of Bermuda that hunted the northern Caribbean and East Coast of North America from 1700-1725 make up a very small segment of pirate history - but unfortunately its the one everybody seems to focus on and care about - why??? I just don't completely understand.

QUOTE FROM ARTICLE: Para 4;
"Late in the Era of Piracy (its decline) we know that the havens of Madagascar had been destroyed. Patrols from Europe's naval powers haunted the Gold Coast of Guinea - constantly making it dangerous for small time pirates. The last place the pirates had any success was in the Bahamas which favors small craft to this day because of the thousands of shoals, reefs, and small islands. If its this period and place we are talking about then YES, their ships were often small and their hauls were as well. Even in this time however, there are VERY notable exceptions which we will examine shortly."
 
Pieter Boelen said:
I linked to this story on our Facebook profile too and it is doing VERY well.
Often, hardly anybody Likes the various posts and when people do, it may only be 1-2.
You managed 7 already in quite a short space of time. Looks like you did something right! :onya
Click to expand...

I'm glad people like the article. Nothing has gone according to plan or schedule in my life for the last two weeks so I have time today and have been doing some writing. I did also reskin another ship as well.
 
Armada said:
Fascinating article, MK! Admittedly, a lot of this information surprised me, especially Bellamy's fleet size. :shock
With so many other pirates having such incredible lives, it sort of makes Blackbeard seem unworthy of all the mainstream attention.
Click to expand...

Agree. Something I've been pointing out to other pirate aficionados for a long time.
 
Hylie Pistof said:
Good reading! I learned more again. I was confusing Blackbeard and Black Sam and the Whydah. It looks like the closest ship we have to the Whydah is La Licorne in POTC. Or is that one is too big, then the NL_Pinnace in POTC or the midden pinnacschip(?) in ERAS.
View attachment 14058
Click to expand...

Well I don't think those ships you mention match up very well Hylie. The Greyhound actually resembles them much more. Look at the picture I posted at the beginning of the article. That has a similar appearance. Have you encountered any Bristol Merchantmen in GOF Eras2 yet? That ship is indeed a Guineaman and the right type of ship that were talking about. Feel free to import any of my ships into New Horizons.

MK
 
Luke McReady said:
I once heard a historian say: History mainly remembers the losers when it comes to pirates. The real successful ones are those youve never heard of, who retired with their names under the radar with all their winnings.
Click to expand...

I agree partially with that, however some of these great acts were so amazingly audacious like De Graff going for the most fortified possible place in Spanish America that they can't help but be remembered. I equate that to a modern very organized leader of professional thieves openly attacking and breaking into Fort Knox and successfully stealing its gold.

Your comment makes me think of Henry Avery, who I almost included. The reason I didn't is because I couldn't find enough out about his ships. We know that the ship he attacked the Great Moghul's ship with had to have been large with lots of men to take on such a well armed prize.

I consider Avery to be the MOST audacious pirate of history. I also believe that his haul was the largest ever in the shortest amount of time.

So Avery goes after the Mecca and Medina bound convoys from India to the Red Sea and captures the Great Moghul's largest ship (which was probably a large English Man'O War purchased by the Emperor from the East India Company). Avery takes the Grand Moghul's ship as his own and gives his own large warship to Alexander Dalzeel (another notable butcher of a pirate).

Then Avery has the audacity to take the Emperor of India's own daughter as his wife.

You can imagine the uproar this caused and the strain on Anglo-India relations and the pucker factor the East India Company was feeling from this one act.

This event marks the first time in history that a Global manhunt was launched. They scoured the world looking for Avery. Where did he go?

Him and his mates headed for ----you guessed it New Providence in the Bahamas. There he sold the ship and split the loot between his mates and crew. The total loot just from the one ship and this doesn't include the loot he took from other ships off Bombay and the Red Sea, Guinea Coast and Caribbean. The loot totalled over 600,000 English pounds. I have no idea how much that is in todays money but it has to be hundreds of millions of dollars.

From there Avery and his mates took on new names and disappeared. Most believe that they bought land and settled down in the North American British colonies somewhere. They were never found, never caught, and never heard from again.

Now in my book that's better than any Ocean's 11 to 13 movie. LOL

MK
 
Translating that to modern times is like having a Go and Capturing an Aircraft Carrier, Subs including Nukes, Missile cruisers, Destroyers and stuff. and then roam the seas off Murgaishu and take tankers and cargoes alike.
And then , like, getting a Russian passport and marrying Obama's Daughter.

I can see the fascination these men spread among the regular populace...

Oceans 13 is indeed... merely a Joke in that kind of Focus.
 
I like this article the best of all the ones you have done UA. You should show this one to Sterling
 
Armada said:
Fascinating article, MK! Admittedly, a lot of this information surprised me, especially Bellamy's fleet size. :shock
With so many other pirates having such incredible lives, it sort of makes Blackbeard seem unworthy of all the mainstream attention.
Click to expand...

Then you know what an impression he must have made to leave such a mark in the history pages... He did something right.


Nice article, learned a lot. thanks for the enlightenment.
 
While I agree that this is a nice write-up, and it is describing real events (although it includes fictionalized elements), its main statement is wrong. MOST pirates where operating small ships. This is true for most of history, and even in modern times.

There where some who captured bigger ships, some became hugely successful, received a royal pardon and settled with their wealth. This is true. But there where just so much more small ships sailing in those days that it can be hardly surprising that most pirate vessels where also small. Shipping registers indicate that most piracy happened to small time merchant ships, who where easy prey. The merchant crews did not want to risk risk their lives against a well armed bunch of pirates. The pirates, being opportunistic, choose the vessels were least resistance could be expected.

So, nice write-up, but your main conclusion does not match with historic evidence.
 
Funny! You're falling into the same tunnel-vision trap as so many others. What conclusions? What fictionalization? Please quantify your position. I simply asked the question "were most pirate ships small?" My conclusion was to debunk the belief that ALL pirate ships were small and took small hauls and that treasure was usually simple stores and such. My purpose was to get people to think about other possible considerations which are historically valid.

I think I successfully debunked that conclusion and showed that there are a lot of exceptions to that bad over generalization. I even produced evidence of real historical events and real ships.

Please produce your own evidence if you're going take a counter position. Where are all these registries you're talking about? Please produce them. If you want to use insurance as a means it will go against you, because if you examine contemporary insurance documents (which I have) usually the insurers were forced to cover complete losses. Studying the history of piracy is a hobby of mine and has been for years. I have a library of thousands of books and access to numerous archives as well as a MA in history and historical research. So I didn't make these comments without looking at a few facts to back me up.

Lets also examine the early years of the Golden Age (1620s-1640s) when piracy was at its very worst outside Dunkirk and Oostend. Pirates were USUALLY found in packs of fast medium warships at this time because they were going after well armed convoys. Did you consider that? Thousands of prizes were taken during this time. This is also the time of the great Sea Beggars who also USUALLY used well armed mechantmen or fast medium warships - men such as Piet Heyn who captured hundreds of prizes.

Also lets last consider a little science and commonsense. For half of the era of piracy small ships would not have been making the Atlantic crossing. So most pirate ships that were small would have been built in the New World. Fast ships like the Bermuda Sloops were not even invented until the late 1670s and even then not wide spread. All this to say that most small ships would not have been present OR able to keep up with many of the bigger ships. People assume a smaller ship will be faster but there are physical laws governing whetted surface, LOA, and amount of sail that often favor larger craft when it comes to speed. Most 46-55 footers will leave my sleeker 26 foot Hake Seaward in the dust. They would have also had to have kept their small ship constantly maintained if they were staying in the tropics because marine fouling happens fast and would have robbed them of any speed advantage they would enjoy if they were indeed faster than their quarry.

Spanish built Galleons would have been the slowest going vessels during most of the era of piracy. So they would have been easily caught. However, every passenger with the exception of females were required to carry arms and by Spanish law they were not allowed to travel alone but in convoy for protection against pirates. They were not worried about one little poorly armed pirate ship. They were worried about a flotilla of well armed fast medium warships.

So, nice comment, but where is your historical evidence? If you're going to say something like that - then produce the evidence please.

MK
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top